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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 13:35:23 GMT -5
I guess I do not understand how something can be emotion based and not effect feelings? but that is probably another debate...
He did not force her imo. he said he could help her she asked how and the then he said turn it off.. she had time to say no at the same time Stefan did and she didn't and that is when Damon said "I want you to turn it off." making it so she would. So it wasn't a choice she had to make. I think it is what she wanted, but I am not sure it is what is best for her... we will see though.
It is interesting that the JP pretty much said no it is now no longer intact. I really wish they gave us more concrete information about this sire bond tbh...everything seems to contradict itself... like doesn't effect feelings (another word for emotions) but is based on emotions. doesn't make sense.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Feb 23, 2013 16:05:28 GMT -5
Yeah the sire bond magically bonds two people if FEELINGS are there when they were human but the sire bond cant control feelings. Only actions. It's all a little like "we made it up so we can do it anyway we want too nanner nanner nanner". It's quite annoying.
But I too wonder Doppel if when she starts to get her humanity back will the sire bond come back or once broken always broken?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 23, 2013 16:14:13 GMT -5
I'm thinking logical it's broken for good because it is formed at turning by pre-existing feelings so why would it come back? If it could come back now then couldn't it come back at any time for any reason once it's gone? But like you said, they make up the rules randomly so who the heck knows?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 16:23:46 GMT -5
I guess if you look at the two different sirebonds
Hybrid Bond- Broken by not feeling grateful anymore to their sire Vampire Bond- Broken by not feeling *they never said a specific emotion* for their sire
Now the Hybrid bond--- it never states that they can't feel grateful again, but it implies once they stop feeling grateful the bond is broken for good, but they had the free will to break it (they did it on their own)
Elena did not break this on her own it was part of the bond that broke it for her. She did not chose to feel differently about Damon- Damon released her of her feelings. So if those feelings would comeback on their own I guess idk.
I would imagine it would be done for good and this is how they got around having to make Damon tell Elena to leave him and never think of him again or what not, but who knows with this show.
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Post by kat on Feb 23, 2013 23:23:21 GMT -5
If the story was being true to the idea of pre existing feelings, then she shouldnt have it if her capacity for human love goes away and she shouldn't get it back if she has to regain her human emotions. I'm still not convinced "shutting it off" shuts out your ability to love because Damon was shutting it off but still fell for Elena so he got out of it.... Yes I'm also one of these people still trying to delude myself into thinking the SB isnt real. Elena could have simply wanted to turn it off after his suggestion and allowed herself to because she trusts Damon hehe.
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Post by Ravenwing on Feb 23, 2013 23:26:55 GMT -5
I really think all of the confusion with the sire bond and holes in that story is bad writing, and not intentional. It does sound like the sire bond will be broken from Elena turning off her humanity, but I'm worried it will come back when she inevitably regains her humanity. I think I may throw something at my TV if this wretched plot device isn't over and done with.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 23, 2013 23:33:14 GMT -5
I don't think it will come back because it happens at turning that if the feelings are there, then in some cases a sirebond develops, not later when feelings happen. So this would be a later scenario if she gets her feelings back. So I think it breaks and is gone forever. Also, Damon never stopped loving Katherine when his switch was off. He kept trying to get her back once he found out there was a possibility that she was alive so even though we may see a pretty numb Elena for an episode or two I would bet that soon those feelings of love will start creeping back in again. Also, Damon started to feel something for Elena pretty early on as well, so I don't buy that the 'switch' is that effective at shutting off love. It's not like they forget what happened or how they felt, they just don't feel it anymore, but they know it happened. The memories aren't compelled away.
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Post by kat on Feb 24, 2013 0:11:21 GMT -5
Even Stefan had to admit Damon's feelings for her were there even though he was convinced Damon had switched off his humanity and become a monster. Stefan thought that even though he knows what it's like to lose one's humanity to their vampiric nature. Therefore, I think Vampire Elena will still find a way to love even though she is now fueled by her vampirism rather than her human side.
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Post by Slash on Feb 24, 2013 0:20:35 GMT -5
Still don't like the way this whole sire bond thing played out. I thought the use of it this past episode was a bit extreme. I think the only good thing to take away from it is that it may be broken now. Think if they hadn't left Bekah on the island, since they've been kind of getting on her good side and she understands the loss of Jeremy, they could have asked her to 'calm' Elena down with some compulsion without going the Damon/Klaus route in telling her to 'shut it off'. Just enough to get her to stop acting crazy but keeping her emotions intact.
Either way, if this has shown us anything, it's that the Writers are obviously winging this stuff as they go along. Sire bond doesn't affect emotions, just actions but from what little of the preview, it looks like Elena is off the rails and I doubt Damon has any control so that means feelings played a part. Whatever. We knew/were seeing them slip up with this little sub-story cause, per usual, lack of consistency with what they've said/done before.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 24, 2013 0:26:23 GMT -5
Why does that mean feelings played a part?
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Post by Slash on Feb 24, 2013 0:37:00 GMT -5
Why does that mean feelings played a part? Had to reread my post to see who you were talking to. Tyler said Sire Bond affects actions (Klaus telling you what to do), not emotions/how you feel (that goes into compulsion territory in getting that done). Damon telling Elena to 'turn it off', and if she doesn't follow his 'commands' via the bond in the coming episodes, that means since Elena's feelings are out of whack/off now, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about Seemed to make sense when I made that first post but now it's apples to oranges. That's how confusing the show has made all this to me Was thinking of an entirely different angle. Elena's feelings being there before is the basis of the bond but if you shut off all of it, the bond has nothing to stand on anymore. That has nothing to do with what Tyler was talking about and what Stefan/Caroline/Damon were trying to get at with wanting to break it. I'm still off track, aren't I?
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Post by kat on Feb 24, 2013 0:43:47 GMT -5
Still don't like the way this whole sire bond thing played out. I thought the use of it this past episode was a bit extreme. I think the only good thing to take away from it is that it may be broken now. Think if they hadn't left Bekah on the island, since they've been kind of getting on her good side and she understands the loss of Jeremy, they could have asked her to 'calm' Elena down with some compulsion without going the Damon/Klaus route in telling her to 'shut it off'. Just enough to get her to stop acting crazy but keeping her emotions intact. Either way, if this has shown us anything, it's that the Writers are obviously winging this stuff as they go along. Sire bond doesn't affect emotions, just actions but from what little of the preview, it looks like Elena is off the rails and I doubt Damon has any control so that means feelings played a part. Whatever. We knew/were seeing them slip up with this little sub-story cause, per usual, lack of consistency with what they've said/done before. Ugh, I didn't even think of the fact that he gave her a command to affect your emotions. This is so dumb. I honestly think the ratings have slipped in part bc of this stupid SB storyline. Other slips earlier were mostly due to holidays and one was the twilight movie premiere. what theyre doing is worse than just making it up...they also tell either ship what they want to hear when they feel like it and ignore the obvious.
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Post by kat on Feb 24, 2013 0:51:49 GMT -5
There should almost be an anti sire bond thread. I freakin hate this storyline maybe more than I have ever hated a single storyline on a loved show. Unless Elena snaps out of it for mutual DE "I Love yous," and I mean by the end of the season, I'm probably going to have to stop watching.
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Post by Slash on Feb 24, 2013 0:56:31 GMT -5
Still don't like the way this whole sire bond thing played out. I thought the use of it this past episode was a bit extreme. I think the only good thing to take away from it is that it may be broken now. Think if they hadn't left Bekah on the island, since they've been kind of getting on her good side and she understands the loss of Jeremy, they could have asked her to 'calm' Elena down with some compulsion without going the Damon/Klaus route in telling her to 'shut it off'. Just enough to get her to stop acting crazy but keeping her emotions intact. Either way, if this has shown us anything, it's that the Writers are obviously winging this stuff as they go along. Sire bond doesn't affect emotions, just actions but from what little of the preview, it looks like Elena is off the rails and I doubt Damon has any control so that means feelings played a part. Whatever. We knew/were seeing them slip up with this little sub-story cause, per usual, lack of consistency with what they've said/done before. Ugh, I didn't even think of the fact that he gave her a command to affect your emotions. This is so dumb. I honestly think the ratings have slipped in part bc of this stupid SB storyline. Other slips earlier were mostly due to holidays and one was the twilight movie premiere. what theyre doing is worse than just making it up...they also tell either ship what they want to hear when they feel like it and ignore the obvious. When you put it like that, it's glaring and I guess makes my point. Damon told Elena via the sire bond to shut off all her emotions/feelings. Tyler said this is not how it worked but it's Tyler. For all we know as well, Vampires =/= Hybrids in the Sire Bond field either. Elena shouldn't have been able to 'turn off all her feelings' via the sire bond/Damon's command because that goes against what Tyler said unless they try to explain it as some 'loophole' cause Damon was telling her to 'hit the switch' or something which wasn't a direct [read 'vague'] command to get her emotions in line, but more of an 'action' (whatever, makes no sense when I think about it but the Writers will probably try something that flies). If he had told her to stop crying or go outside and let them deal with this, fine, but he made a direct command on her emotions and to shut them all down and afterwards, even said he'd turn them all back on later. What? I'm not going to ponder on it. It's a mess and we expected this.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 24, 2013 1:09:58 GMT -5
To me he told her to make an 'action' not to stop a feeling specifically. He didn't say stop grieving because he couldn't make her stop grieving. Flipping the switch is an action, not a feeling.
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