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Post by Slash on Jan 14, 2012 20:37:56 GMT -5
Caring that she died or not is irrelevant. If it wasn't, who the hell are all the people who ripped Damon a new one for killing 'Jessica', the innocent girl who decided to be a good person and stop to see if this guy laying in the road needed help. I'm sure all those people didn't 'care' about Jessica and hell, we didn't even know who she was cause of the 2 minutes she had on screen but that death was used as more gasoline for the Damon bonfire people have been throwing in the past. The fact that she [Andie] died the way she did for the reasons she did is the issue here. As for Damon abusing her, early on, yes. Then he let her go after she said she really did feel for him (compulsion or not is up for debate). Come S3, the 2 are back together, more than likely for Damon to keep himself preoccupied but he did seem to have developed an appreciation of her and from what little we saw in S3, he wasn't compelling her. We don't know how the 2 met back up (Damon needing to keep some distance with Elena and needing Andie's help) but they did. I don't think Damon was using/abusing her at that point if her death was any indication. What Stefan did to her was simply for kicks. In fact, what he did to her was undone just a few hours later when he went and made that damn phone call to Elena. He had just killed Andie to send a message for Damon & Co. to stay away and then he makes Andie's death pointless by picking up the phone for a mute, sob moment. You are right it makes no difference on whether it is right or wrong, but it does play on how I feel about Stefan. If he killed someone I did care about in the same way. Like Jeremy or Bonnie my reaction would have been WAY different. Does that make sense? Makes sense but it's also the problem with some fans and why Damon gets so much flak. Damon has killed Jeremy (and Alaric twice) and made an attempt at Bonnie to get to Emily when Emily reneged on their deal. Regardless though, Damon takes an innocent life and people call for his head. Stefan does it and it's 'fine/for the greater good/good cause'. That's why there is usually a rift between ship/character fans with the Brothers. |
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Post by Tara on Jan 14, 2012 20:41:07 GMT -5
I'm just saying how I see it, as a Stefan fan. I feel like sometimes he shows something in his eyes or whatever. I'm not saying it's all right. But that's how I see it. I know what he's said, but I feel like it's all part of his plan. I remember seeing something in his eyes more than once since all this started, I don't feel like all the truth is out. I don't think he's that far gone, I see him show it in little ways. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel right now. It's just my opinion.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 14, 2012 20:41:27 GMT -5
Thats where we see it different. I never thought it was all for revenge. I agree maybe a small part is, but I think see something in him even now. I think it was more to protect everyone in the long run. I agree, it may not be the best way. I know people are getting hurt and everything. But, I think it would have happened/been worse if he had let Klaus go. The thing is it's a little counterproductive. The thing that makes me think it's more about revenge for Stefan aside from the writers saying this in the interviews is the fact that he was willing to lose EVERYTHING with his gamble of calling Klaus's bluff. Damon tells Stefan in order to call someone's bluff you have to risk losing everything and what does Stefan do, without even taking a moment to ponder this he walks away. Meaning there's no doubt that he's willing to lose everything to get his revenge on Klaus. Then there's the fact that he did nothing or showed no concern for lives clearly in danger i.e Jeremy's and Alaric's, and to some degree Elena's human life. How can you be willing to risk everyone to protect everyone? That doesn't make any sense. As by his methods there will be no one left to protect. How can he be doing this to protect people when he's putting them in direct danger. It's a contradiction. I think Stefan's primary concern is his revenge, he even says it's all he has. I don't even think it's a question at this point. Exactly right. Maybe he will come to his senses. Right now Damon is staying close to Stefan but still letting him do his thing, monitoring him as it were, to be honest. He's monitoring him so he can intervene if he needs to if Stefan goes right off the rails. That's a pretty smart thing to do under the circumstances. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 14, 2012 20:44:50 GMT -5
I want you to stick with your guy! That is fine... That is what we do. i stick with Damon. All I was saying was I also stick with Elena. She is my other half of my ship. Yes she pisses me off to no end sometimes but I love her. I also know Damon is an Ass and does reckless crap! He makes me so mad sometimes too. I can come out and admit his wrongs and not excuse him. No excuses for killing Jer only a road to redemption could help him. All I wanted was Elena to stop being the hated female like in every show... where we back the male character making every excuse for him and bash the female lead. In this instance where I see my heroine who I love being bashed for Stefan's rude, crude and dangerously reckless behavior irks me!! We can all wait and see I just hate Stefan or anyone getting excused for horrific behavior. Funny thing is I am one of the rare DE's who loves Stefan! I actually loved ripper Stefan way more than any Stefan! Esp this new vengeful Stefan! I think ripper Stefan was humorous in the games he played. Some saw cruel I saw interesting. But now he is not compelled I wanted to see Stefan who cares but has an edge and all I got was an empty vengeful Stefan. Him being my 4th favorite on the show it kinda stings. I think when you love a show, it's natural to get mad at characters. I think I've been mad at all the characters at some point. I'll never hate Elena, do I get mad at her? Yeah. But I think thats anyone. I know she's getting a lot of hate from us(SE's) but I think its natural. I've seen just as much anger at Damon. It's the same as the Stefan, Bonnie, or Klaus stuff. In the end we all love the show, but we're all going to get riled up at certain points. To me I don't think it's a terrible thing to get upset at the characters or whatever the case is. We all do, and we all have our favorites and such, but I guess what confuses me is the hate towards Elena specifically while so many fans chose to sympathize with Stefan, when IMO Stefan's the one doing things that should warrant some hatred or anger, yet it doesn't seem like it. Stefan has betrayed Elena far worst in my opinion than any kiss she has had with Damon. To me that's as bizarre as say Elena receiving hate for Damon snapping Jeremy's neck. It's completely unwarranted and frankly doesn't make sense to me. But it tends to be that way with female leads. I have a lot of experience with fandoms and I know the female leads are always harshly criticized while the males tend to always have excuses made for them, mostly by female fans. I think that kind of reaction is a little misogynistic. *shrugs* |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 14, 2012 20:46:59 GMT -5
Thats where we see it different. I never thought it was all for revenge. I agree maybe a small part is, but I think see something in him even now. I think it was more to protect everyone in the long run. I agree, it may not be the best way. I know people are getting hurt and everything. But, I think it would have happened/been worse if he had let Klaus go. The thing is it's a little counterproductive. The thing that makes me think it's more about revenge for Stefan aside from the writers saying this in the interviews is the fact that he was willing to lose EVERYTHING with his gamble of calling Klaus's bluff. Damon tells Stefan in order to call someone's bluff you have to risk losing everything and what does Stefan do, without even taking a moment to ponder this he walks away. Meaning there's no doubt that he's willing to lose everything to get his revenge on Klaus. Then there's the fact that he did nothing or showed no concern for lives clearly in danger i.e Jeremy's and Alaric's, and to some degree Elena's human life. How can you be willing to risk everyone to protect everyone? That doesn't make any sense. As by his methods there will be no one left to protect. How can he be doing this to protect people when he's putting them in direct danger. It's a contradiction. I think Stefan's primary concern is his revenge, he even says it's all he has. I don't even think it's a question at this point.  Said everything I wanted to say but better!  |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 14, 2012 20:48:10 GMT -5
I'm just saying how I see it, as a Stefan fan. I feel like sometimes he shows something in his eyes or whatever. I'm not saying it's all right. But that's how I see it. I know what he's said, but I feel like it's all part of his plan. I remember seeing something in his eyes more than once since all this started, I don't feel like all the truth is out. I don't think he's that far gone, I see him show it in little ways. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel right now. It's just my opinion. So you think that later on he will say, "I had to do this so Klaus would believe I meant it?" I mean I can see that being what the end result is but I still can't see how endangering people's lives has been worth it so far. Also, for me, I want Klaus to live. I'd rather he not be an aggitated Klaus.  Klaus let Stefan free and everything was good between them at that moment. Klaus wasn't coming for anything at that point. Stefan was free! He could have walked away from it all. But there is the Katherine factor to all of this. She wanted Stefan mad enough to go after Klaus in this way for some reason, one that we don't know at this point. |
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Post by Slash on Jan 14, 2012 20:49:03 GMT -5
Our heroine and these characters don't deserve to be used as pawns in a game they never asked nor were warned they were playing. IMO this whole thing from the very beginning has been a game, this just happens to be a part/level of it. Personally, even if Stefan hadn't taken the coffins, I think Klaus would have came back and reek havoc on Mystic Falls. Given that, I think "our heroine" is much more than the pawn considering how many want her alive or dead since she is a/the doppleganger. I think Klaus' only real concern after Mikael was dead was to waken the family and go about his plans. You also have to remember that MF is very much a home to him, his family, and their Origins when they came to the New World so I think him having a home there was going to happen but with all the trouble involved? Maybe, maybe not. He's invested in Elena for her use in creating Hybrids. He'd want to stay close by. Would he have made a deal with the Council/Founders/Sheriff to let him go about his business while protecting the town? Maybe. Show some 'good will', get the town officials in his back pocket/out of his business and enjoy the good life. I think if he had stuck around and got blood from Elena every now and then, everything else would have been fine unless someone else comes looking for him and the group gets drawn in because Elena becomes a target for that 3rd party cause they know Klaus is using her for his Hybrids. But I'm someone who thinks things could have turned out a bit differently and that, aside from giving blood now and again, things could have 'settled down' with Klaus if a deal was made on Elena & Co's behalf  |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 14, 2012 20:50:13 GMT -5
The thing is it's a little counterproductive. The thing that makes me think it's more about revenge for Stefan aside from the writers saying this in the interviews is the fact that he was willing to lose EVERYTHING with his gamble of calling Klaus's bluff. Damon tells Stefan in order to call someone's bluff you have to risk losing everything and what does Stefan do, without even taking a moment to ponder this he walks away. Meaning there's no doubt that he's willing to lose everything to get his revenge on Klaus. Then there's the fact that he did nothing or showed no concern for lives clearly in danger i.e Jeremy's and Alaric's, and to some degree Elena's human life. How can you be willing to risk everyone to protect everyone? That doesn't make any sense. As by his methods there will be no one left to protect. How can he be doing this to protect people when he's putting them in direct danger. It's a contradiction. I think Stefan's primary concern is his revenge, he even says it's all he has. I don't even think it's a question at this point. Said everything I wanted to say but better! Everyone always says what I'd like to say better and with less words. |
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Post by Tara on Jan 14, 2012 20:55:51 GMT -5
I'm just saying how I see it, as a Stefan fan. I feel like sometimes he shows something in his eyes or whatever. I'm not saying it's all right. But that's how I see it. I know what he's said, but I feel like it's all part of his plan. I remember seeing something in his eyes more than once since all this started, I don't feel like all the truth is out. I don't think he's that far gone, I see him show it in little ways. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel right now. It's just my opinion. So you think that later on he will say, "I had to do this so Klaus would believe I meant it?" I mean I can see that being what the end result is but I still can't see how endangering people's lives has been worth it so far. Also, for me, I want Klaus to live. I'd rather he not be an aggitated Klaus. Klaus let Stefan free and everything was good between them at that moment. Klaus wasn't coming for anything at that point. Stefan was free! He could have walked away from it all. But there is the Katherine factor to all of this. She wanted Stefan mad enough to go after Klaus in this way for some reason, one that we don't know at this point. I really don't believe it's all about revenge and he's turned off. I know why you guys are mad at Stefan, or don't see it the way I do. I'm just saying how I see it. I don't think Klaus was going to leave in peace. He was always going to be after Elena. Who knows what else he would want down the road? I'm not anti-Klaus, but I don't think you can trust him at all. To me, it would have been naive/stupid for them to just walk away. I don't know if I agree with what they're doing or what they have planned, but I don't know enough yet to really judge it. I just trust Stefan at this point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 21:09:18 GMT -5
I'm just saying how I see it, as a Stefan fan. I feel like sometimes he shows something in his eyes or whatever. I'm not saying it's all right. But that's how I see it. I know what he's said, but I feel like it's all part of his plan. I remember seeing something in his eyes more than once since all this started, I don't feel like all the truth is out. I don't think he's that far gone, I see him show it in little ways. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel right now. It's just my opinion. I agree that the show does or at Least Paul does show emotional weakness in his portrayal of Stefan in all of S3. His eyes or his voice breaks a little or he refuses to give eye contact. You can tell he still cares about what he is doing and that it is not all about revenge. I think he is a little sad and hopeless and he like he said to Katherine, can't let it all back in, but he lets some in and you can tell when he does. I am going to copy and paste a tumblr post because it jst one example.... ohthemlovers: "Back in the car. Elena, get in the car!" He was about to break down, and that’s why he got in the car so quickly and drove away. It wasn’t his original intention, because when Elena initially got out of he car, he told her to get back in. (x) ^this. |
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Post by Tara on Jan 14, 2012 21:12:57 GMT -5
I'm just saying how I see it, as a Stefan fan. I feel like sometimes he shows something in his eyes or whatever. I'm not saying it's all right. But that's how I see it. I know what he's said, but I feel like it's all part of his plan. I remember seeing something in his eyes more than once since all this started, I don't feel like all the truth is out. I don't think he's that far gone, I see him show it in little ways. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel right now. It's just my opinion. I agree that the show does or at Least Paul does show emotional weakness in his portrayal of Stefan in all of S3. His eyes or his voice breaks a little or he refuses to give eye contact. You can tell he still cares about what he is doing and that it is not all about revenge. I think he is a little sad and hopeless and he like he said to Katherine, can't let it all back in, but he lets some in and you can tell when he does. I am going to copy and paste a tumblr post because it jst one example.... ohthemlovers:"Back in the car. Elena, get in the car!" He was about to break down, and that�s why he got in the car so quickly and drove away. It wasn�t his original intention, because when Elena initially got out of he car, he told her to get back in. (x) ^this.Exactly! That whole scene I saw little things where I felt like it's more part of the plan for him to have to be this way. The SE scene over Jeremy I saw it too. Even in some of the scenes with Damon. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 14, 2012 21:51:02 GMT -5
They havent shown him breaking down at all so that is all just speculation and wishful thinking at this point.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 14, 2012 21:52:36 GMT -5
I don't know..... Stefan pre season 3 would have never done what Stefan season 3 did to Elena no matter what!! Even for revenge.... That is how I know that this Stefan is different. Changed. Colder, more calculated. We might see moments of the old Stefan in certain scenes but we have to face it that this new Stefan is winning over the old. And who knows... I don't know who is the true vampire Stefan anymore...
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 14, 2012 21:55:05 GMT -5
They havent shown him breaking down at all so that is all just speculation and wishful thinking at this point. I have to agree with this.... To me Stefan has redeeming qualities but he has shown none since he started this revenge thing! If I see a glimpse of guilt, sadness or sorrow I will be the first to admit I see a change in him. I just don't see it right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2012 22:02:11 GMT -5
They havent shown him breaking down at all so that is all just speculation and wishful thinking at this point. I am not sure if it so out of the realm that it is wishful thinking. Really? I mean they have given us moments during his compulsion even that it was clear he cared about Elena and his brother. So I think it is maybe wishful thinking to think he is only working on revenge and does not care about his actions. |
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