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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 18:33:20 GMT -5
Whatever your source was it was not in the show. There was no contrary information. If you have proof otherwise I'd love to see it and I'm not talking a Tumblr post. I'm talking evidence from the TV show itself. There are only two people so far who have attested to what the sire bond entails and that is Nandi and Tyler and both were in agreement. A/ The feelings the person had for their sire when they were human triggers it and B/ It does not affect their feelings. Everything else is speculation and opinion from people who are not/have not been sired or have direct knowledge of what it entails.
Tyler: The bond effects how you act, not how you feel.
They put those clues to us in there for a reason so we would know the truth about the sire bond no matter how convoluted it might get.
It's also just not realistic to expect Damon to just walk away from the woman that he loves because of the sire bond. That just takes away yet another one of Elena's choices. Her choice to love Damon if that's what she wants to do so he's trying to help with the cure as right now that's everyone's hope to break it. Saying he could just break it is not even taking into consideration his or Elena's feelings in the matter and in the end they are the only two people it should even matter to. Nobody else is involved.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 18:56:40 GMT -5
Like many things on the show - we have been given contrary information. One source said it was based on existing emotions and another said it was not. Damon could free her from the sire bond, as he did the girl in New Orleans. Just sayin'...(and he may yet do so) Nowhere on the show has it ever said ANYTHING and I repeat ANYTHING about the sire bond affecting EMOTIONS. ONLY ACTIONS. I'm capitalizing these words because they are important words when dealing with the sire bond. Why would Julie have TWO different people in the same episode where the Sire Bond is being revealed to us the audience and we finally get to learn about what a sire bond is, why would Julie have these two people both say it doesn't affect emotions or how you feel. Video: Tyler did feel grateful for Klaus but when he learned the truth about Klaus he had free will to change those feelings and hate him. Elena when she turned she wanted to be with Stefan but her free will with her feelings changed during the season. She finally allowed herself to go where she never wanted to go before. Where she knew she couldn't go. HER FREE WILL to do so with her feelings!! This is how Elena relates to Tyler. All this other hoopla about Hybrid vs Vampire crud is nonsense. Please lets debate what Julie obviously put in the show for us to understand more about Sire Bonds. Maybe if everyone didn't sit here and question what is so blatant Julie wouldn't have to be so damn coy in her interviews. Maybe if everyone just took what she wrote the way she wrote it she could be like "well they get it" so no beating around the bush today.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:01:47 GMT -5
Okay I tried to catch up but I did not read everything, so I am sorry if this is irrelevant. The Sire bond has influenced Elena's emotions. Heavily. So has being a vampire. Maybe the sire bond alone can soley make you fall out of love with someone, but the type of changes Elena has gone through and her being sired to Damon has affected the way she now feels about him.
That whole thing with Rebakah proved this.
The sirebond is what made Elena capable of accepting what she is and she attributes that to Damon and not the bond she has with Damon and everything that is left of "her" inside that hates what she has become she attributes to Stefan making her feel this way instead of her conscious as shown in the episode where Katherine was pretty much acting as her conscious. Damon saved her on that bridge, but the bond could be attributed to that.
Basically the writers can do what they want with this sire bond and it is dumb and a cop out kinda like how DE fans have thought that the riper story line was a cop out because it makes Stefan bad, but also not cause he is cursed with being a ripper. Without this bond DE could not have happened this season NO WAY would it be believable this season, but this sire bond was easy writing for something that just would have been difficult to write otherwise.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 19:03:48 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I hate the sire bond but read the last few posts. There is proof that the sire bond does not effect feelings. There is NO proof that it does, other than wishful thinking on people's part.
I also don't agree with you that DE couldn't have happened this season. I think given her choice at the end of season 3 it would have been set back but it was already well in play and possible by then. Elena has felt this way for a while now, since before she turned and the sire bond really just proves it.
It's possible that her feelings for Damon only just trumps her feelings for Stefan after she turned for various reasons one of which she stated to him in the way she feels he treats her, but there's also plenty of evidence that points to her having repressed her true feelings as a human. So both are possibilities. At this point we know she loves Damon and she isn't in love with Stefan anymore and that's where we are at no matter when it happened. But we do know it wasn't caused by the sire bond.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:07:49 GMT -5
I just gave proof I thought or evidence at least. Both rebekah's interrogation and Elena conscious through Katherine are evidence. Not proof neither side has proof Elena herself questions it still. "You can say it is the sirebond and maybe it is"
PLUS actions and situations that the bond has created can affect emotions. Maybe not directly the bond but the result of the bond can affect emotions. I am not just a wishful thinker just because I am SE.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 19:12:45 GMT -5
I just gave proof I thought or evidence at least. Both rebekah's interrogation and Elena conscious through Katherine are evidence. Not proof neither side has proof Elena herself questions it still. "You can say it is the sirebond and maybe it is" PLUS actions and situations that the bond has created can affect emotions. Maybe not directly the bond but the result of the bond can affect emotions. I am not just a wishful thinker just because I am SE. What is the proof in words? Bullet point the actual proof for me or something because I didn't see any proof in your post. I see some speculation and opinion but not actual proof from the show that points to what you are saying. Nandi and Tyler said it had to come from human emotions and that it did not effect emotions. That is our proof. They have no stake in this thing and they have the experience with sire bonds to know. Elena had her one badly placed conversation with Tyler this season just so we could know that. It's pretty obvious they wanted to make sure we did. <== Not laughing at you, just the whole odd convo with Tyler thing.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 19:24:19 GMT -5
Regardless of how the bond made her act which you think promted Stefan to feel like he couldn't help which you think brought DE closer together, Stefan didn't have to react like he did. Stefan could have found a way to be just as involved with the whole sire bond thing. I do admit that the whole blood thing may have helped to rely on Damon but she was relying on Stefan too and that's why after the college incident she went to Stefan and told him how she didn't want to do this. Stefan had three options. A. Cure, B. Help Elena be the best vampire and involve himself more or C. BOTH. He chose A. His own actions prompted what could have been detrimental to his relationship sire bond or not! if you don't flower a garden it wont grow. Stefan hid things from her and then he used Jeremy behind her back. On that bridge when Stefan sent Damon you cant blame the bond. Stefan was so consumed with the fact that his brother was the one to get to her and not him that he sent Damon to Elena. Had Stefan rose above it all and just went to save his girlfriend maybe Elena wouldn't have had this moment of reckoning when Damon saved her life!
You cant blame the sire bond. Yes it sucks and yes I;m sure Stefan felt stuck between a rock and a hard place but if it's EPIC then it's worth fighting for. Had she been my girlfriend I would have been at that college. I would have been there to watch over everything Damon was teaching her. I would have involved myself in it instead of laying down. If she were my girlfriend i would have never let my brother go rescue my girlfriend off that bridge! We can sit here and say the bond caused all sorts of problems but it's life! Problems come and we as people have to find a resolution and rise above it. He chose a resolution that did NOT involve Elena. He took Elena out of his plans even though the cure was for her. how was the whole situation supposed to bring them together if he didn't even ask her if she wanted it or wanted Jeremy to be a hunter. How can he show her he still wants to be involved in all of this if he is keeping his plan from her. There is no growing as a couple if you cant experience the ups and downs of any plan, experience etc etc.
So in the end when Stefan decided to allow Damon to take over on his own is the moment that Stefan allowed the SB to rule him. He had no idea there was a SB and that's even more sad because he just thought Elena was relating to Damon more and that was enough for him to give up the reigns and let Damon drive the car.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:30:21 GMT -5
Okay well I do not one quote to give you but the fact that scene existed was to give us insight on what Elena was thinking.
This is Elena's conscious.... compulsion may say what she believes to be the truth, but her conscious is undoubtedly the truth.
Damon was there on that bridge because of the sirebond because Elena was not trusting Stefan as much as Damon because of the sirebond. When Damon saved her in that moment --- Elena's lowest moment she started showing stronger feelings for Damon----therefore influenced by the sirebond. If Stefan was there instead of Damon because the sirebond was not there and she trusted Stefan like she always does then that would not have been a thing... so I mean I can go episode by episode but as you can see the sirebond does have influence because of the situations it causes. Whether not it directly affects emotions... I am going to wait to make that decision.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:32:49 GMT -5
Regardless of how the bond made her act which you think promted Stefan to feel like he couldn't help which you think brought DE closer together, Stefan didn't have to react like he did. Stefan could have found a way to be just as involved with the whole sire bond thing. I do admit that the whole blood thing may have helped to rely on Damon but she was relying on Stefan too and that's why after the college incident she went to Stefan and told him how she didn't want to do this. Stefan had three options. A. Cure, B. Help Elena be the best vampire and involve himself more or C. BOTH. He chose A. His own actions prompted what could have been detrimental to his relationship sire bond or not! if you don't flower a garden it wont grow. Stefan hid things from her and then he used Jeremy behind her back. On that bridge when Stefan sent Damon you cant blame the bond. Stefan was so consumed with the fact that his brother was the one to get to her and not him that he sent Damon to Elena. Had Stefan rose above it all and just went to save his girlfriend maybe Elena wouldn't have had this moment of reckoning when Damon saved her life! You cant blame the sire bond. Yes it sucks and yes I;m sure Stefan felt stuck between a rock and a hard place but if it's EPIC then it's worth fighting for. Had she been my girlfriend I would have been at that college. I would have been there to watch over everything Damon was teaching her. I would have involved myself in it instead of laying down. If she were my girlfriend i would have never let my brother go rescue my girlfriend off that bridge! We can sit here and say the bond caused all sorts of problems but it's life! Problems come and we as people have to find a resolution and rise above it. He chose a resolution that did NOT involve Elena. He took Elena out of his plans even though the cure was for her. how was the whole situation supposed to bring them together if he didn't even ask her if she wanted it or wanted Jeremy to be a hunter. How can he show her he still wants to be involved in all of this if he is keeping his plan from her. There is no growing as a couple if you cant experience the ups and downs of any plan, experience etc etc. So in the end when Stefan decided to allow Damon to take over on his own is the moment that Stefan allowed the SB to rule him. He had no idea there was a SB and that's even more sad because he just thought Elena was relating to Damon more and that was enough for him to give up the reigns and let Damon drive the car. Stefan wasn't being selfish he wasn't giving up on winning Elena ... he was doing what was best for Elena even if it wasn't what was good for him. I guess that is a big difference between the brothers.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 19:35:54 GMT -5
Teppy, the reason Stefan didn't go is because Stefan already gave up and let his brother have the reigns on Elena. He could have went with Damon? I don't understand why it's either he or Damon. Why cant they both be there as a team helping Elena. Yes Damon was closer to her because he was getting through to her sire bond or not but Stefan didn't have to be the odd man out! Stefan's decisions also affected what was the outcome. Had there been no sire bond and it was truly just a Doppelganger curse then Stefan single handedly let DE get closer. He let the fact that his brother was getting to Elena consume him from being involved. He could have been way more involved but he was too bothered and just let Damon do it.
There was ways he didn't have to be around the blood. Let's not pretended that he wasn't upset that Damon was getting to her and he wasn't.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 19:37:43 GMT -5
Regardless of how the bond made her act which you think promted Stefan to feel like he couldn't help which you think brought DE closer together, Stefan didn't have to react like he did. Stefan could have found a way to be just as involved with the whole sire bond thing. I do admit that the whole blood thing may have helped to rely on Damon but she was relying on Stefan too and that's why after the college incident she went to Stefan and told him how she didn't want to do this. Stefan had three options. A. Cure, B. Help Elena be the best vampire and involve himself more or C. BOTH. He chose A. His own actions prompted what could have been detrimental to his relationship sire bond or not! if you don't flower a garden it wont grow. Stefan hid things from her and then he used Jeremy behind her back. On that bridge when Stefan sent Damon you cant blame the bond. Stefan was so consumed with the fact that his brother was the one to get to her and not him that he sent Damon to Elena. Had Stefan rose above it all and just went to save his girlfriend maybe Elena wouldn't have had this moment of reckoning when Damon saved her life! You cant blame the sire bond. Yes it sucks and yes I;m sure Stefan felt stuck between a rock and a hard place but if it's EPIC then it's worth fighting for. Had she been my girlfriend I would have been at that college. I would have been there to watch over everything Damon was teaching her. I would have involved myself in it instead of laying down. If she were my girlfriend i would have never let my brother go rescue my girlfriend off that bridge! We can sit here and say the bond caused all sorts of problems but it's life! Problems come and we as people have to find a resolution and rise above it. He chose a resolution that did NOT involve Elena. He took Elena out of his plans even though the cure was for her. how was the whole situation supposed to bring them together if he didn't even ask her if she wanted it or wanted Jeremy to be a hunter. How can he show her he still wants to be involved in all of this if he is keeping his plan from her. There is no growing as a couple if you cant experience the ups and downs of any plan, experience etc etc. So in the end when Stefan decided to allow Damon to take over on his own is the moment that Stefan allowed the SB to rule him. He had no idea there was a SB and that's even more sad because he just thought Elena was relating to Damon more and that was enough for him to give up the reigns and let Damon drive the car. Stefan wasn't being selfish he wasn't giving up on winning Elena ... he was doing what was best for Elena even if it wasn't what was good for him. I guess that is a big difference between the brothers. I'm sorry I'm confused when did I call him selfish and when did I talk about winning Elena? I was strictly speaking about helping her. He gave up on helping her with BEING A VAMPIRE THE BEST WAY SHE COULD and let Damon take that task while he went off in search for the cure... I'm confused?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 19:40:22 GMT -5
Okay well I do not one quote to give you but the fact that scene existed was to give us insight on what Elena was thinking. This is Elena's conscious.... compulsion may say what she believes to be the truth, but her conscious is undoubtedly the truth. Damon was there on that bridge because of the sirebond because Elena was not trusting Stefan as much as Damon because of the sirebond. When Damon saved her in that moment --- Elena's lowest moment she started showing stronger feelings for Damon----therefore influenced by the sirebond. If Stefan was there instead of Damon because the sirebond was not there and she trusted Stefan like she always does then that would not have been a thing... so I mean I can go episode by episode but as you can see the sirebond does have influence because of the situations it causes. Whether not it directly affects emotions... I am going to wait to make that decision. Sorry, I still don't see it. All I see is that what she thinks Stefan feels for her came out in the form of Katherine and that means absolutely nothing about her feelings for Damon so I'm not sure what your point or proof was. Also her feeling stronger feelings because he saved her on the bridge does not = sire bond. Maybe it equals that she loved him more because he saved her. The sire bond cannot make her love him. Or did you mean it kicked in more after that? I have mentioned this myself though I don't know if it's true exactly. Perhaps her love did grow stronger then when he saved her. Either way she loves him and it doesn't do much good to try to pinpoint exactly when it happened. She is sired because of her feelings for Damon and she has stated that she loves him and the sire bond cannot make her love him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:41:18 GMT -5
Teppy, the reason Stefan didn't go is because Stefan already gave up and let his brother have the reigns on Elena. He could have went with Damon? I don't understand why it's either he or Damon. Why cant they both be there as a team helping Elena. Yes Damon was closer to her because he was getting through to her sire bond or not but Stefan didn't have to be the odd man out! Stefan's decisions also affected what was the outcome. Had there been no sire bond and it was truly just a Doppelganger curse then Stefan single handedly let DE get closer. He let the fact that his brother was getting to Elena consume him from being involved. He could have been way more involved but he was too bothered and just let Damon do it. There was ways he didn't have to be around the blood. Let's not pretended that he wasn't upset that Damon was getting to her and he wasn't. Se this is what it frustrating to me why is this Stefan giving up? Why is this letting DE happen? The sire bond was already there and it was obvious to Stefan that things were different. There was no point for him to be there. He trusted his brother and he knew Damon was who Elena needed. He was being selfless... why can't this be positive?Why make him weak for doing this when it was actually very strong of him to do? He tried to help her and she daggered him. So I think he did not want to make it worse by being there and so he sent Damon because even though he wanted to be there he thought for Elena it would be best for Damon to be there.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 19:47:09 GMT -5
Teppy, the reason Stefan didn't go is because Stefan already gave up and let his brother have the reigns on Elena. He could have went with Damon? I don't understand why it's either he or Damon. Why cant they both be there as a team helping Elena. Yes Damon was closer to her because he was getting through to her sire bond or not but Stefan didn't have to be the odd man out! Stefan's decisions also affected what was the outcome. Had there been no sire bond and it was truly just a Doppelganger curse then Stefan single handedly let DE get closer. He let the fact that his brother was getting to Elena consume him from being involved. He could have been way more involved but he was too bothered and just let Damon do it. There was ways he didn't have to be around the blood. Let's not pretended that he wasn't upset that Damon was getting to her and he wasn't. Se this is what it frustrating to me why is this Stefan giving up? Why is this letting DE happen? The sire bond was already there and it was obvious to Stefan that things were different. There was no point for him to be there. He trusted his brother and he knew Damon was who Elena needed. He was being selfless... why can't this be positive?Why make him weak for doing this when it was actually very strong of him to do? He tried to help her and she daggered him. So I think he did not want to make it worse by being there and so he sent Damon because even though he wanted to be there he thought for Elena it would be best for Damon to be there. Did we not watch season 3 together? The last time he left and had Damon watch over Elena they got super close!!! They kissed twice!!! This wasn't that long ago from the kiss in 3x19 time wise. No matter how much I trusted Damon I would remember what this decision did the last time. DE had unresolved feelings. It wasn't selfless it was annoyance. He was annoyed that yet again Damon was there getting through to her. I'm sorry I cant see your point on this one... All the history and everything that happened up to that point Stefan is just going to let Damon go help Elena? How is that even selfless? Why is that even selfless. Even if there were no feelings? I don't get it?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 19:51:29 GMT -5
I actually do get what she's saying there, that Stefan felt Damon could get through to her better than he himself could and save her, which was the point of going there. She did stab Stefan so she wasn't receptive to Stefan at the time. His reasons for it could be just that or it could be because he was annoyed with the whole thing but I didn't really get that so much from it. I'm still trying to figure out the angle Teppy's coming at with the sire bond thing. Maybe we're having communication problems. She speaks SE. I speak DE. Just a little joke there to lighten the mood.
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