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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 2, 2012 18:35:28 GMT -5
To open an even bigger can of worms, I simply don't care about some of the characters you mentioned, and I think alot of people feel the same way about SOME of the characters on the show so spending alot of time developing those characters would be time away from the ones people actually want to see. I love alot of them, but there's just some that bore me, even some that DO get alot of time. But if, say, the writers decided to deviate off on some tangent to develop all the characters I would lose interest fast. You are right in that they keep adding new characters and ignoring the old but I think that's because it sparks interest that the old characters just can't do at this point and it IS all about ratings. I get that, but I also think the reason a lot of people lose interest or simply have never had any interest in some of these characters is because they've never gotten the proper attention from the writers in the first place, I think if they had gotten the focus and good story-lines that might have been another issue entirely. If these characters weren't just shoved in the background and brought to the surface occasionally (mostly when the plot calls for it) than they'd probably generate a lot more interest and fascination from the fans. At the end of the day it's the writers job to get us to care about the characters, and obviously when they want us to they do. They wanted the Originals to get a lot of focus this season and they wrote them in a way that made people care and want to watch them. The originals could have been just as dull and uninteresting as some of the other characters, but they're not. And that's because of the writing (and the actors of course) but the recurring cast are a bunch of talented actors as well who can rise to the occasion, unfortunately they're hardly ever given the opportunity. I'm not a Matt fan, and I agree with the sentiment that there seems to really be not much purpose for him in the show most of the time, but I fault the writing because I've always seen a lot of potential in Matt that the writers simply ignore making him one of the most useless characters around. the problem I have with the adding of the new characters is the fact that at some point let's face it, they'll be killed off or leave the show somehow. I guess I just don't understand the point of getting fans super invested in characters that will not stick around, while failing to get them invested in the characters that will. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 0:37:10 GMT -5
You've got a point there but for me some of them just don't interest me, some that have even been developed to some degree. For instance for me, Tyler is boring. I don't get much out of watching him unless his chest is bare..ha! Frankly I didn't care for any of the werewolf storyline. Yet I love Caroline, even though I despised her in the beginning of the series. She won me over. Bonnie just annoys me, but of course she isn't so well developed so we'll see what they do with her. I think I liked her better right at the beginning of the series when she was discovering her powers, before she got all witchy judgmental. I never really liked Vicky. I wanted to, but she's gone now. I never like Anna or her story. I guess I'm picky!  So for me, even though these characters were around a while, I never grew very fond of them. I'm beginning to really like Klaus, even though he scared me something awful, which is actually a good thing, that he evoked that feeling in me. His voice just creeps me out...I adored Elijah and wish he was still around. Not wild about Rebekah. She seems too childish and bratty to me. Jeremy is a cutie but a doofus...  haha However I do like him still. Katherine I adore and want to see more of. I love Alaric and think he's awesome. So, I can't really chalk it all up to development as some of these have been fairly developed and yet I still don't like them. I wouldn't want to wade through entire shows of their development. I think, to me, the trio holds the most interest as they should because that was always the focal point of the series, so yeah, they could slowly develop these other characters around those mains and it wouldn't be too painful to watch. But to devote alot of time to them? Ahhh...not for me. The originals have been a nice addition in my opinion, and I even wish Daddy Original didn't get killed off cause he was awesome and creepy and mean and I really wanted to hear more of his side of the story, but oh well. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 3, 2012 2:15:20 GMT -5
I agree, I don't think we'd all like every character more if they got enough development, because sometimes people find characters boring etc. It does also come down to personal taste to some degree. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think those characters would be better received in general, maybe not by every singe fan but none the less if they had more focus, there would be plenty of fans who'd be interested in their story. Maybe you and I still wouldn't care too much for Tyler but surely there would probably be a lot of fans who do. I actually thought Tyler story-line was interesting in the beginning (with his father being such a douche and kind of abusive) it kind of explained why he was such a tool. But they killed off his father in the season 1 finale, and that was really sort of the end of that.. After that I liked his relationship with Caroline, but I was never really crazy about the character in general. I guess for me, I'd like to know those characters better. Not saying this guarantees I will like them all but I'd like to be more invested in their story-lines than the thousand random characters that the writers introduce. I do agree most of them are great additions and I really don't mind guest characters, I think in S1 they had a lot of great guest stars that complimented the show and even now I like some of the guest stars, but the show is becoming IMO this revolving door of new characters. It's like the writers have become completely dependent on guest stars to make the show interesting when they have a group of characters begging to be written for.  I really would rather not get invested in characters that are just going to be killed off while remaining completely oblivious about those that are not going anywhere. And do you notice the backlash the writers get after killing off these guest characters? Fans get angry and they're forced to bring them back in a horrible display of fan-service. (Sorry I hated that episode  ) |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 3:54:41 GMT -5
Yeah THAT episode didn't do much for me either for the same reasons. Like why? There were some characters I'd rather have seen, like Rose. I would have liked to have seen Rose thank Damon for having mercy on her and not letting her suffer or even Andie telling him it wasn't his fault she died, because I think Damon always bears these burdens he doesn't really have to. But no, he got nothing out of that episode but tortured by Mason.
And how about Elena's ghosts? Oh my, now that could fill up a room and Stefan's Dad? Stefan could have gotten some closure there. It was sort of a missed opportunity for more key relationships I thought. If you're gonna do it do it right.
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Post by Slash on Jan 3, 2012 5:46:02 GMT -5
Yeah THAT episode didn't do much for me either for the same reasons. Like why? There were some characters I'd rather have seen, like Rose. I would have liked to have seen Rose thank Damon for having mercy on her and not letting her suffer or even Andie telling him it wasn't his fault she died, because I think Damon always bears these burdens he doesn't really have to. But no, he got nothing out of that episode but tortured by Mason. And how about Elena's ghosts? Oh my, now that could fill up a room and Stefan's Dad? Stefan could have gotten some closure there. It was sort of a missed opportunity for more key relationships I thought. If you're gonna do it do it right. Ghost episode annoyed me a bit too, for the reasons you mentioned. Damon carries a lot of guilt and I think seeing Rose & Andie would have been good for him. I think 'Jessica' showing up would have also been an experience for him. Same for Elena and John/Isobel/Jenna/both other parents. She could have used some time with them after all this BS in her life but instead, her 'Ghost' focus is on Stefan, which was kind of shot when Damon went and released him anyways  Just blown chances all around. I didn't mind Mason showing up but I'd rather have had him say his part to Damon, and then spend some time with Tyler. Give him some advice and try and set him straight. Tyler never got to say goodbye to him cause he was killed by Damon. I mean, if Matt got to say goodbye to Vicki, why can't Tyler say it/spend some last moments with Mason? Episode just left a lot to be desired. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 8:22:47 GMT -5
You're right, Mason should have spent some time with Tyler, too. It really was a great opportunity for alot more and they kind of blew it.
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Post by Tara on Jan 3, 2012 9:21:24 GMT -5
I guess I don't see what's so wrong with it all. If it had been Stefan in trouble, we all know Damon would have done the same. They've both saved eachother, multiple times. It's not realistic for them to just ignore the other one being in danger. Maybe if Klaus wouldn't have told Katherine, it could have gone. But I disagree with people saying it was to make Stefan look like the hero, and to stop D/E. Everyone knew they weren't going to kill Klaus, it was obvious something like this would happen. So in the end someone was going to stop Damon, or Damon was going to most likely die. I think everyone was happier with the first option. I thought it was a good scene. You could see the terror in Stefan's eyes for his brother. I don't know. I like Defan scenes.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 10:41:06 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second he would have died with all his vampire friends/allies around. But Stefan, of course, would not want to risk even the slightest chance that it could happen so that's why he did it. I get it. But I also think it was a plot device as the others do. It didn't need to happen.
Why they are all hell bent on always making Stefan save Damon lately is beyond me. We don't need it to happen 20 times in a row to get the message, Stefan loves his brother...so what else could they possibly be doing with it? Trying to make him a hero the easy way and put a monkey wrench in DE. It's transparent. In the last 10 episodes he's saved Damon 4 times minimum and that is not even trying to actually think of each episode for more. It's ridiculous and redundant.
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Post by Tara on Jan 3, 2012 10:49:31 GMT -5
I don't believe for a second he would have died with all his vampire friends/allies around. But Stefan, of course, would not want to risk even the slightest chance that it could happen so that's why he did it. I get it. But I also think it was a plot device as the others do. It didn't need to happen. Why they are all hell bent on always making Stefan save Damon lately is beyond me. We don't need it to happen 20 times in a row to get the message, Stefan loves his brother...so what else could they possibly be doing with it? Trying to make him a hero the easy way and put a monkey wrench in DE. It's transparent. In the last 10 episodes he's saved Damon 4 times minimum and that is not even trying to actually think of each episode for more. It's ridiculous and redundant. But how many times has Damon saved Stefan? The same could be said. They're always saving eachother, I don't feel either more than the other. I felt this was more about Stefan snapping out of it. Elena said that it was going to be Damon that got Stefan back, and it was. I didn't really see it as a way to mess things up. I guess I thought it was nice. His love for Damon being the thing that brought him back. But I think they do the same with Damon. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 10:56:10 GMT -5
Yes, Damon has saved Stefan but not repeatedly in back to back episodes practically all while supposedly being this uncaring ripper type. What are they so afraid of if they just let Stefan be bad for a little while? Let the guy off his leash for gosh sakes! I'm hoping he gets a little bit badder and before anyone thinks it's so I can criticize him, it's not.
I just happen to like my men with a little edginess and I'd no doubt like him more if they'd let him actually be the ripper for real. Otherwise, they shouldn't have even bothered if they wanted to keep him as Mr White Knight coming to everyone's rescue all the time. Trying to have it both ways just seems disingenuous.
I do want to say that the latest info looks promising on that front, that Stefan MAY get a little bit badder in his single mindedness to get revenge on Klaus but we'll see what that actually means. I'd like to see him sink pretty low, then pull himself back out of the muck with his brother's help of course.
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Post by Tara on Jan 3, 2012 11:10:32 GMT -5
Yes, Damon has saved Stefan but not repeatedly in back to back episodes practically all while supposedly being this uncaring ripper type. What are they so afraid of if they just let Stefan be bad for a little while? Let the guy off his leash for gosh sakes! I'm hoping he gets a little bit badder and before anyone thinks it's so I can criticize him, it's not. I just happen to like my men with a little edginess and I'd no doubt like him more if they'd let him actually be the ripper for real. Otherwise, they shouldn't have even bothered if they wanted to keep him as Mr White Knight coming to everyone's rescue all the time. Trying to have it both ways just seems disingenuous. I do want to say that the latest info looks promising on that front, that Stefan MAY get a little bit badder in his single mindedness to get revenge on Klaus but we'll see what that actually means. I'd like to see him sink pretty low, then pull himself back out of the muck with his brother's help of course. I guess thats where we disagree. I like Stefan the way he is. Him not caring and just going completley off wouldn't be him to me. I wouldn't hate him if he went off, but thats just not his character. I think the brothers have saved eachother equally. I don't think its been more Stefan. But I understand why you feel that way I guess. I've got mad at Damon for saving Stefan before. But to me the show is more about D/S than S/E and D/E. I feel like that's where the true story is. The focus always goes back to that somehow. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 11:28:19 GMT -5
I think it should be the focus because when you think about it, they've been together 162 years and at this point Elena has no plans to become a vampire so at most they'd get maybe 70 years with her. If I were a vampire I'd think of humans as temporary I think. I don't see how you could really think of them any other way when you keep going on and watching them come and go.
But they know that they, the brothers, will go on indefinitely unless something befalls one of them, which is why they are fiercely protective of each other. I said in another thread, I think neither one of them would want to go on without the other.
They are each other's constant and, in a way, each other's counter balance because it always seems when one is struggling with his dark side, the other one is there to help and rises to the occasion. We haven't seen them both off the rails at the same time.
As for Stefan, I look at it this way, if he stays the same he doesn't grow as a character and he doesn't get past his somewhat split personality. Character growth and change is important to any character.
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Post by Tara on Jan 3, 2012 11:37:41 GMT -5
I think it should be the focus because when you think about it, they've been together 162 years and at this point Elena has no plans to become a vampire so at most they'd get maybe 70 years with her. If I were a vampire I'd think of humans as temporary I think. I don't see how you could really think of them any other way when you keep going on and watching them come and go. But they know that they, the brothers, will go on indefinitely unless something befalls one of them, which is why they are fiercely protective of each other. I said in another thread, I think neither one of them would want to go on without the other. As for Stefan, I look at it this way, if he stays the same he doesn't grow as a character and he doesn't get past his somewhat split personality. Character growth and change is important to any character. I agree, but I don't think Stefan has to go completely crazy to grow. I think he's grown a lot since the show started. In the last episode, in the car with Katherine, I think Stefan knows he may never be the same. I think Stefan has more small changes in himself, where it's not always obvious. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 11:51:20 GMT -5
Getting over this ripper thing so he can feel whole, complete and in control will be his biggest hurdle. Its obvious the reason he ate bunnies was because of it and that it doesn't take much and he's off on a ripper binge. If he's going to be someone Elena would want to be with I think he needs to come to terms with that. Otherwise he's just plain dangerous for her to be around and I think she has come to that realization. So, if Stelena were to go forward, I'd think this would be a huge area of concern/stumbling block for them at this point until Stefan does get it figured out. Not that I'd WANT Stelena to keep going on, of course. But if it did, I could see Elena having a real problem with the current state of affairs and her and Stefan having some really tough conversations about where things are going. But even that would be good for the growth of the relationship as well. No more secrets would be a really good thing. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 3, 2012 12:02:46 GMT -5
How is it that every debate no matter the subject turns into a Damon vs Stefan thing? Well....I'm not sure it became exactly that. They didn't get compared this time other than for how many times one has saved the other.  We need a new episode to complain about! |
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