Stefan hate or dislike...or just not like as much.

[loverofcw1230]

Whatever you want to call it a lot of people are not so happy with Stefan right now. But I saw this article written by uh.....some person on tumblr and it's really brilliant, IMO, so I thought everyone should read it and debate.
Sorry, I'm sick right now and a little loopy. Please excuse my craziness.

LESSONS IN STEFAN SALVATORE
Apparently, an alarming number of people refuse to consult their vast stores of intellect to understand why Stefan is doing what he’s doing. That, or they just prefer to irrationally hate him in favor of Damon. So, against my better judgment, I’m going to share my opinion! Hooray!
***DISCLAIMER: I love Damon and I enjoy Delena. Really. I think they have an interesting dynamic. But Stefan strikes me as the true tragic hero in this situation, and I’m kinda sick of seeing him dragged through the mud after everything he’s been through.
SO. Friends! TVD fans! If you:
a) Expected that Stefan’s first compulsion-free act would be to run back to Elena, beg her forgiveness, and attempt to patch things up,
b) Don’t understand why Stefan isn’t embracing his humanity right now,
c) Don’t understand why he said “Destroying Klaus is all I have left” [/li][li]…
…you seriously need to open your eyes.
LESSON #1:
Stefan hates himself. He almost killed himself the last time he BARELY went off the rails in Blood Brothers. Now he has violently slaughtered dozens of innocent victims, completely destroying any chance he had with Elena (in his own eyes), and nullified the personal peace he worked for 30+ years to achieve. All to save Damon’s ass, of course. Because he’d rather sell his soul and give up everything good in his life than let his brother die.
So when given the chance to “patch things up”, why do we think he’d be chomping at the bit to do so? Stefan believes everyone’s better off without him. He flat-out tells Elena in The End of the Affair that he doesn’t want her to waste half of her life waiting for him to pull himself together again. Because he loves her, he wants better for her, and he thinks he’s a lost cause.
LESSON #2:
Emily Bennett told Stefan when he was freshly turned: “Even in death, your heart is pure. That will be your curse.” And it is. Stefan’s curse is that he cares – too much. He feels an overwhelming amount of grief and guilt every time he’s off the human blood and remembers the lives he’s wrecked. It’s a daily battle, as he’s admitted before. The blood promises him he can escape the guilt… and that has always been his greatest temptation, because he feels the guilt worse than anyone. Thus, he wants the blood worse than anyone. Thus, he’s a Ripper. Bad cycle. Catch-22.
So. In light of recent events, I completely understand why – as he told Kat in the car – Stefan is a LITTLE BIT HESITANT to let his feelings all come rushing back in. He’d probably be paralyzed and useless for God knows how long. He’s trying to use the state he’s in right now to get rid of Klaus once and for all, since nobody else seems to have the balls to do it. And because he feels like he has absolutely nothing to lose.
It makes sense to me how, in his messed up frame of mind right now, Stefan is able to brush aside something like Jeremy’s potential death: because he thinks nothing in the world can restore his relationship with Elena, Damon, etc. He genuinely thinks that part of his life is irretrievable – and that even if it was retrievable, he doesn’t deserve it anyway. So what does it matter if he falls out of everyone’s good graces even further?
Damon once told an unconscious Elena: “I can’t stand the thought of you hating me.” IMO, Stefan is stronger than that: he can stand the hate, if it means Elena and Damon are safe and happier in the long run. In the end, he doesn’t give a s*** about himself. He’ll do everything he can to protect his loved ones.
“ABOUT THE LESSONS IN STEFAN SALVATORE-I AGREE WITH A LOT OF IT. WHY HE IS NOT A GOOD GUY AGAIN JUST BECAUSE HE GOT HIS HUMANITY BACK IS VERY UNDERSTANDABLE. I LOVE HIM. GOOD OR "BAD" HIM. THE ONLY THING WAS WHEN YOU USED THAT EXAMPLE OF DAMON SAYING, "I CAN'T STAND THE IDEA OF YOU HATING ME." I THINK THE "FOREVER" PART IS IMPORTANT. IN 2X18, DAMON SAID THAT HE'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SAVE ELENA, "I'LL EVEN LET HER HATE ME FOR IT." I THINK THEY'RE BOTH STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE HATE FOR HER SAFETY”
-CECILIAHESTON

Good point. I forgot Damon’s line from The Last Dance. I do believe that as much as Damon criticizes Stefan’s martyr streak, he’s got plenty of it in his own blood. He wanted to be the back-up vampire for Klaus’s ritual, he tried to trade himself for Stefan in Klaus’s service – the list goes on. Both Salvatores are well-versed in self-sacrifice, and have proven they’ll put their loved ones’ safety above anything.
Stefan has certainly taken that to the farthest extreme, though, and I find it unendingly tragic that he’s in this position not because of any mistake he made (see Damon killing Jeremy, and Damon’s attempt to turn Elena – two reasons Elena has temporarily “hated” D before), but purely because of his love for his brother and Elena. Only NOW is he making all of the mistakes.
I’m certainly not trying to put him on a pedestal above Damon, because let’s face it: [glow=red,2,300]both brothers have done equally f***ed up things throughout their lives, and they’re both on their own zig-zag journeys toward redemption.[/glow]
But Stefan tried so goddamn hard to change his basic nature and change people’s lives for the better, and it all blew up in his face in the most depressing way imaginable. I feel for him, big time.
tl;dr I agree, I’m #TeamSalvatore, and thanks for the message.
People like to dismiss this selfless attitude by calling Stefan a “martyr”. And yes, I agree. Quoth Damon, “Stefan is an insufferable martyr who needs to have his ass kicked.” It’s unfortunate and self-destructive, but why do people act like this is a reason to despise him? Apparently, caring more about others than about yourself is a trait to be spurned or mocked.
So it’s cool, guys. Keep hating on Stefan. He’ll just continue to save everybody’s asses like he always does, with zero thanks and hell as his reward.
But he’ll do it with snark and BAMFery to spare! And that’s why I love him.

[Doppelgänger]

There's been no indication that he's doing any of this stuff for any other reason but pure revenge for himself with his, "You took everything from MEeeee" whine fest. I like how blunt this person is so I'll be blunt as well. I don't feel sorry for Stefan and he needs to stop feeling sorry for himself, pull his head out of his a**and look around at the people he is presently hurting, then get his s*** together and start living in the real world again where there really are people that care about him despite his whiny 'poor me' attitude every time he goes off the deep end.

I can't stand that aspect of Stefan and I can't feel sorry for him for doing bad things just because he then wants to self destruct. He's not being a hero here, endangering people's lives by the way he's gone about this Klaus stuff, sorry. But he can be forgiven if and when he actually realizes what a douche he's been and stops doing it.

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 13:28:24 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

There's been no indication that he's doing any of this stuff for any other reason but pure revenge for himself with his, "You took everything from MEeeee" whine fest. I like how blunt this person is so I'll be blunt as well. I don't feel sorry for Stefan and he needs to stop feeling sorry for himself, pull his head out of his a**and look around at the people he is presently hurting, then get his s*** together and start living in the real world again where there really are people that care about him despite his whiny 'poor me' attitude every time he goes off the deep end.

I can't stand that aspect of Stefan and I can't feel sorry for him for doing bad things just because he then wants to self destruct. He's not being a hero here, endangering people's lives by the way he's gone about this Klaus stuff, sorry. But he can be forgiven if and when he actually realizes what a douche he's been and stops doing it.

I think that's kind of the whole point of his actions though is that he doesn't think he can be forgiven. He doesn't think he deserves anyone.

[Doppelgänger]

Pfffttt...he needs to just get over it. Let the people he hurt decide if it's forgivable or not. I mean, Damon's still been right there with him through this. He hasn't left him because he's so terrible he can't be forgiven, and neither has Elena, not yet, anyway.

To say what he said about losing her the minute he left town cheapened all her/their efforts to save him for the entire summer/beginning of the school year as if it never happened and the entire time all he did was push them away, yet they kept coming back! It's obvious nobody gave up on him, except himself.

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 13:50:57 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

Pfffttt...he needs to just get over it. Let the people he hurt decide if it's forgivable or not. I mean, Damon's still been right there with him through this. He hasn't left him because he's so terrible he can't be forgiven, and neither has Elena, not yet, anyway.

To say what he said about losing her the minute he left town cheapened all her/their efforts to save him for the entire summer/beginning of the school year as if it never happened and the entire time all he did was push them away, yet they kept coming back! It's obvious nobody gave up on him, except himself.

"He just needs to get over that." Well put! And i totally agree with the point that no one gave up on him except himself. I think you're right in that he's the ultimate person he won't forgive himself. It's obvious Damon will forgive him. Even Elena will forgive him. But can he forgive himself? I think it's be a long haul for that one. And he can't really let anyone else in until he completely forgives himself. You know the saying, "You can't love others until you love yourself" blah blah blah. All true.

[loverofcw1230]

OMGSH You're ****** from Fb. -is really slow-
I <3 you!






haha! Thanks....but I'd prefer to keep my real name off the board, so I fixed it up there.

[Doppelgänger]

Jan 15, 2012 13:58:05 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

Jan 15, 2012 13:50:57 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

Pfffttt...he needs to just get over it. Let the people he hurt decide if it's forgivable or not. I mean, Damon's still been right there with him through this. He hasn't left him because he's so terrible he can't be forgiven, and neither has Elena, not yet, anyway.

To say what he said about losing her the minute he left town cheapened all her/their efforts to save him for the entire summer/beginning of the school year as if it never happened and the entire time all he did was push them away, yet they kept coming back! It's obvious nobody gave up on him, except himself.

"He just needs to get over that." Well put! And i totally agree with the point that no one gave up on him except himself. I think you're right in that he's the ultimate person he won't forgive himself. It's obvious Damon will forgive him. Even Elena will forgive him. But can he forgive himself? I think it's be a long haul for that one. And he can't really let anyone else in until he completely forgives himself. You know the saying, "You can't love others until you love yourself" blah blah blah. All true.

Yes, he is extremely hard on himself, there's no doubt about that one. It just drives me crazy, where I suppose to some people it makes them want to hug him or something.

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 14:05:24 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

Jan 15, 2012 13:58:05 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

"He just needs to get over that." Well put! And i totally agree with the point that no one gave up on him except himself. I think you're right in that he's the ultimate person he won't forgive himself. It's obvious Damon will forgive him. Even Elena will forgive him. But can he forgive himself? I think it's be a long haul for that one. And he can't really let anyone else in until he completely forgives himself. You know the saying, "You can't love others until you love yourself" blah blah blah. All true.

Yes, he is extremely hard on himself, there's no doubt about that one. It just drives me crazy, where I suppose to some people it makes them want to hug him or something.

That's me!

[Doppelgänger]

Jan 15, 2012 14:08:04 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

Jan 15, 2012 14:05:24 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

Yes, he is extremely hard on himself, there's no doubt about that one. It just drives me crazy, where I suppose to some people it makes them want to hug him or something.

That's me!

I figured. Yeah on that, Stefan is unique but I was about to shove him into the quarry that time he was planning to walk into the sun without his ring on for biting Amber. I don't have much patience for that sort of thing. I think for me it's because it makes me think that they think too highly of themselves that they can't make a mistake, perfectionist sort of thing, makes me nuts since I'm a person who can deal with the fact that we ALL make mistakes.

But of course it could be the exact opposite and they think they're dirt as well. Some of the things he's said though have made me believe differently, like, "I don't do this. I'm the good brother." What a way to try to say you're better than your brother. See what I mean?

So I'm not so convinced he actually doesn't think very highly of himself and THAT'S why he struggles with making a mistake because it shatters his own image he's made of himself in his head in which he is perfect and doesn't make mistakes.

[pixiestyx]

Disclaimer: I do not like Stefan. Never have.

I didn’t expect Stefan to go running back to Elena after the compulsion broke. I expected him to stay away. Martyr, lost cost etc. And I get why he is hesitant in letting his emotions come back in.

He went with Klaus to save Damon, and then spared Klaus to save Damon. Only to put Damon (and everyone else) in immediate danger by stealing the coffins.

He doesn’t even have a plan. He’s given no indication that he’s doing this for anything other than revenge. And he’s being reckless and cruel about it. It says something when Damon is worried because he can’t predict what Stefan will do or how far he’ll go.

Look what he did to Elena! He force fed her his blood and then threatened to drive her off the bridge where her parents died and she nearly did. And I’m convinced he would have done it too. Again, for what? Revenge.

Yes, Damon has fed Elena his blood before. The first time was because Stefan and Elena betrayed him and I don’t think he would have harmed her. The second time was in desperation because he was willing to anything to save her. He immediately knew he messed up and spent all his efforts trying to fix it. It was wrong of him to feed her his blood.

I’d have more sympathy for him if his plan for revenge didn’t threaten everyone else. As for him thinking he can’t be forgiven well he’s just plain stupid there. Elena and his brother spent months trying to get him back so it’s CLEAR that they would have forgiven him or never blamed him. Even now it’s clear that he’ll be forgiven. Elena forgave Damon; why would Stefan ever think that she wouldn’t forgive him?

Damon’s right: “You’re dead dude. GET OVER IT”. And stop fighting your vampire nature so you can learn to control yourself.

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 14:29:31 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

Jan 15, 2012 14:08:04 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

That's me!

I figured. Yeah on that, Stefan is unique but I was about to shove him into the quarry that time he was planning to walk into the sun without his ring on for biting Amber. I don't have much patience for that sort of thing. I think for me it's because it makes me think that they think too highly of themselves that they can't make a mistake, perfectionist sort of thing, makes me nuts since I'm a person who can deal with the fact that we ALL make mistakes.

But of course it could be the exact opposite and they think they're dirt as well. Some of the things he's said though have made me believe differently, like, "I don't do this. I'm the good brother." What a way to try to say you're better than your brother. See what I mean?

So I'm not so convinced he actually doesn't think very highly of himself and THAT'S why he struggles with making a mistake because it shatters his own image he's made of himself in his head in which he is perfect and doesn't make mistakes.

Yeah i guess it could be seen that way. I think it depends in all how you view characters.

[Sweetluv4DE]

I don't hate Stefan. I actually care allot about his character. I like the development of his story and I LOVE how complex he is getting. I like the fact that he has a dark past. That he isn't a saint. I like that Stefan in fact is a vampire. A killer by nature. But my problem with Stefan is not Stefan himself.

Yes Stefan is being reckless... yes Stefan is being an ASS! yes Stefan is doing all these things to people he is supposed to care about and protect! I want to understand him. I want to know why he is the way he is! It's character development.

But I also want people meaning "us the audience" to call it like it is! Not make excuses for Stefan's actions when the writers didn't have any excuses in mind. The writers plain and simple are making the audience and wanting the audience to be shocked, upset even outraged that he is doing all of this. We can empathize but all i see lately is sympathy!

I don't buy into there is something in his eyes. I didn't see a glimmer of anything. And I'm a Stefan fan. I'm not an SE fan and that doesn't make me less keen to Stefan and his feelings. I have watched TVD since the pilot too.

Until the writers create some type of remorse for Stefan's action blatant enough on my television screen where I don't have to debate or wonder then I will feel he is on the road to redemption. We are all deserving of redemption if we feel true remorse and ask for forgiveness. I have no doubt in my mind that Stefan will realize that he is putting himself above the others and not just in stealing the coffins but in his own "shutting off" switch that he has at this point turned off. He may feel bad or feel something but it doesn't count for much if you don't act on it and do something about it. If you are still hurting someone you can feel bad but if you keep on doing it what does that say about you?

Stefan needs to realize that killing Klaus isn't all he has left. What was lost can be found again. What was torn apart can be mended. He is in a way playing martyr . By telling Elena he lost her the min he left town i wanted to smack him!

Own up to your choices and decisions! Elena never asked him to save Damon. Elena never asked him to save her. he just did. He may have felt he had no other choice but at the end of the day you either fix what you got or you mask it with self pity and ruin it completely!

I love Stefan... I'm mad as hell at him right now and I wont make a damn excuse for what he is doing! Doesn't mean I like him less. It just means that as a viewer he will have to gain back what he had with me. It's character development like I said. If we make excuses for everything our character does and never let him develop because everything they do can be justified how boring would that be?

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 13:59:35 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

OMGSH You're ****** from Fb. -is really slow-
I <3 you!






haha! Thanks....but I'd prefer to keep my real name off the board, so I fixed it up there.

Ooops sorry!

[loverofcw1230]

Jan 15, 2012 17:23:03 GMT -5 Sweetluv4DE said:

I don't hate Stefan. I actually care allot about his character. I like the development of his story and I LOVE how complex he is getting. I like the fact that he has a dark past. That he isn't a saint. I like that Stefan in fact is a vampire. A killer by nature. But my problem with Stefan is not Stefan himself.

Yes Stefan is being reckless... yes Stefan is being an ASS! yes Stefan is doing all these things to people he is supposed to care about and protect! I want to understand him. I want to know why he is the way he is! It's character development.

But I also want people meaning "us the audience" to call it like it is! Not make excuses for Stefan's actions when the writers didn't have any excuses in mind. The writers plain and simple are making the audience and wanting the audience to be shocked, upset even outraged that he is doing all of this. We can empathize but all i see lately is sympathy!

I don't buy into there is something in his eyes. I didn't see a glimmer of anything. And I'm a Stefan fan. I'm not an SE fan and that doesn't make me less keen to Stefan and his feelings. I have watched TVD since the pilot too.

Until the writers create some type of remorse for Stefan's action blatant enough on my television screen where I don't have to debate or wonder then I will feel he is on the road to redemption. We are all deserving of redemption if we feel true remorse and ask for forgiveness. I have no doubt in my mind that Stefan will realize that he is putting himself above the others and not just in stealing the coffins but in his own "shutting off" switch that he has at this point turned off. He may feel bad or feel something but it doesn't count for much if you don't act on it and do something about it. If you are still hurting someone you can feel bad but if you keep on doing it what does that say about you?

Stefan needs to realize that killing Klaus isn't all he has left. What was lost can be found again. What was torn apart can be mended. He is in a way playing martyr . By telling Elena he lost her the min he left town i wanted to smack him!

Own up to your choices and decisions! Elena never asked him to save Damon. Elena never asked him to save her. he just did. He may have felt he had no other choice but at the end of the day you either fix what you got or you mask it with self pity and ruin it completely!

I love Stefan... I'm mad as hell at him right now and I wont make a damn excuse for what he is doing! Doesn't mean I like him less. It just means that as a viewer he will have to gain back what he had with me. It's character development like I said. If we make excuses for everything our character does and never let him develop because everything they do can be justified how boring would that be?

nice post

[Slash]

Jan 15, 2012 13:03:16 GMT -5 loverofcw1230 said:

LESSON #2:
Emily Bennett told Stefan when he was freshly turned: “Even in death, your heart is pure. That will be your curse.” And it is.

He’s trying to use the state he’s in right now to get rid of Klaus once and for all, since nobody else seems to have the balls to do it. And because he feels like he has absolutely nothing to lose.

Stefan has certainly taken that to the farthest extreme, though, and I find it unendingly tragic that he’s in this position not because of any mistake he made (see Damon killing Jeremy, and Damon’s attempt to turn Elena – two reasons Elena has temporarily “hated” D before), but purely because of his love for his brother and Elena. Only NOW is he making all of the mistakes.

So it’s cool, guys. Keep hating on Stefan. He’ll just continue to save everybody’s asses like he always does, with zero thanks and hell as his reward.

First: Everyone knows Emily Bennett is a lying Witch. Anything she says shouldn't be taken for the breath wasted to say it.

Secondly, BS. He's the only one with the 'balls' to get in Klaus' face and try and take him down? Damon has been doing this for going on a season now and has walked away from how many close calls with the guy? Damon has been the pain in Klaus' ass since S2 was coming to an end and throughout S3 when Stefan was still Klaus lap dog. Stefan might be willing to toss every Tom, Dick and Harry at the problem as collateral in bringing Klaus down but to say he's the only one who has the 'balls' is insulting. Damon's only 'safe guard' is keeping others safe.

I don't see how he's in this situation because of his love for Elena. Damon was dying, the Witches gave him squat so he turned to Klaus. Don't know where Elena fits into that equation unless you're going for the "She just lost Aunt Jenna, Daddy John and Momma Isobel. She can't lose a potential love interest." Damon was solely the reason he's in the position he's in and he gave up his humanity once again & that relationship/future with Elena to save Damon, even though Damon was willing to take a bow.

As for the last paragraph in the quote, take out "Stefan", put "Damon" in it's place and it's the same damn situation that guy has been putting up with for the past season and a half if not more with the fan base.