If Damon & Stefan Weren't Brothers...

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...would this whole 'triangle' business be more or less interesting? Other shows and such have handled it by pitting 2 rivals against each other for the love of a girl (Eric & Bill from True Blood, Edward & Jacob in Twilight if you really want to even call that one a triangle) and I think the brother aspect in TVD is kind of only cherry picked when it needs to be.

We get to see these glimpses of the 2 as a family but then it's all undermined by the triangle itself and vice versa. Brothers bond pretty well in one episode and then an episode later, they're ramming stakes into each others' chests/stomachs or playing the blame game about something concerning Elena.

What if they were just 2 Vampires turned around the same time (or from rival families while human or rival Vampire groups/clans) and Damon ran into a Ripper Stefan in the early 1900s and that's when this whole rivalry started? Would Stefan be different without the Damon aspect weighing on him? Same for Damon. Would Elena be more willing to explore knowing that she wouldn't have to deal with the family angle if she decided to date Damon while Stefan was gone.

This does change up a lot of things though, such as each one not going to the lengths they've gone to keep the other alive unless Elena begged & pleaded for the one to save the other. Then it kind of gets into the 'You owe me/I only did it for her' area and I suspect it's a slippery slope from there. Maybe Elena would have allowed them to build up a grudging respect for one another after a century of being at each others' throats. Katherine could probably stay if they were of rival families and it's a repeat of both of them trying to court the same girl and she turned them both (sparking their feud even more after turning).

I don't know where I'm going with this. The Brother aspect that's thrown into the 'triangle' mix is shoddy for this show cause of the way it's called upon. We'd have an entirely different show without it and more "I'm about to **** you up" stand offs between the 2 main males.

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I think the brother aspect makes the triangle more interesting. The friends and rivals one is the more common theme but I like the complication of the TVD triangle. Gives it more of the forbidden feel to it. Especially regarding Damon and Elena since it's the whole (This is my brother's girl, I'm falling in love with his brother, he/she saved my life, got to ignore these developing feelings etc.)

Then you have the story of Kat and how she played the two brothers and Elena doesn't want to do the same all the while you have the bond of the two brothers hanging in the balance. TVD's triangle has so many complications (in a good way) and that's what I like about it. Of course I would actually enjoy it more if it was written more properly other than the one sided mess we're getting now.

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Maybe that's what's getting to me: the writing. I know Damon feels a bit guilty at times (like in the beginning of S3 where he had a chance to make moves on Elena but didn't because her separation from Stefan at that point was to save Damon's life). I wish the Brother thing was written better on Stefan's part too. He has his moments but lately, nah. It seems he's more pure rival than 'Brother'. The letting Damon rot thing (and not helping him when he saw the condition he was in) and then the 'lets make a leave town deal when Elena chooses' after all the crap Damon has done for her/them? That's just 'rival' league stuff where it's "I win, now ****ing leave".

The way it's currently written gives conflicting feelings for me because of the above. It's like it's 1-part Brother and then the other part/half is mostly playing it from the rival perspective (and Stefan's selfish ways at times drive that point home). They could have addressed that going forward with the Brothers bonding and trying to get Stefan's blood control in hand but they swept that under the rug quick. Damon told Stefan that he was all he had and then it's just done with no more development. This is what I mean where they cherry pick moments where they can put an 'Ah, Brotherly love' moment in and then go back to the usual crap.

The forbidden love angle does make it interesting but it's all poorly setup. Damon feels guilty, Elena wants him to screw up and wont admit anything, and her friends don't support a relationship with him for all the wrong reasons. Damon feeling guilty falls better under the 'forbidden' part but the other stuff doesn't. Elena not admitting to him is just denial, even when Stefan, Kat, Rose, etc. know she loves him. They don't have a problem, per se, with it, just Stefan cause he stands to lose his girl. Elena's friends however, they're not looking at this as 'he's the bad guy, he'll kill everyone to get what he wants, blah blah'. He's wronged all of them but he's made it up by saving their lives and he's changed over the course of 3 seasons so what exactly makes it 'forbidden', from their perspective, to love Damon or have a relationship with him? Because he's Stefan's Brother, and they all rather support good old Stefan instead who hasn't wronged them (or that they won't admit to cause he threw them to the wolves when he took the coffins)?

They need to use the Brother angle better cause they're wasting it a majority of the time.

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I hate the Damon and Stefan relationship with a passion on this show. I don't care for it at all. It's so incredibly bias. Having a good brotherly relationship isn't just defined by how many times they 'save' you and all those physical aspects. It's all about emotional feelings too and Stefan verbally abuses the hell out of Damon. I don't know why it's so hard for SE or Stefan fans to see that. They claim that Damon is the bad brother and I don't know what show they're watching.

Stefan is the one going around on a high pedestal, shooting Damon down and making him out to be a monster when Stefan himself was no better. Damon was perfectly 'normal' in terms of being a vampire. Stefan was the weird one trying to live among humans.

Damon makes all the hard choices and keeps everyone alive even if it makes everyone hates him while Stefan stands back in the corner just hoping for his brother to step in so he can come out with his perfect image in tact. I really can't forget when he told Damon to not talk about him around Elena in 3x17. It was really what the heck dude? He just didn't want Damon to say something like, "By the way Stefan is getting worse. He's a true monster now." or something. Tainting Elena's perfect image of him.

Bottom line this relationship is poorly written, especially from Stefan's angle. He's worser than his book counterpart. Wait of course. Damon in the books would have Stefan up if he tried any of that crap on him from the show.

Speaking on that angle another reason why this triangle doesn't work much is because they changed all the personalities. Elena's like the freaking moral police who is written to be mean to Damon's character just because it's Damon's character. She just gets angry at him for no reason. She wasn't suicidal in the books and she did come up with good plans. She was blonde but she didn't follow the bimbo stereotype. Elena in the show makes too many dumb moves to count.

Damon's been reduced to a punching bag with no self esteem. They have him pinning away that nobody wants him or ever chooses him. They made him more emotional in the show compared to his book self where we're always kept guessing what the heck he was up to. He was confident that Elena would choose him and was the one that usually did the 'smack' talking in regards to him and Stefan. I hate that they took all his powers away and all those moments where they have Stefan sucker punch him or even land one hit on him. Damon was top tier in the books. Stefan never won when he went against him never. (It took having Elena's special angel/spirit blood for him to be on par with him). And it's not even just Stefan now. They have Caroline and just about every other character hitting Damon every episode.

Then Stefan, I already stated what's my beef with his character. Much like Elena's where they turn Damon into a punching bag and have Stefan say all this crap where book Stefan would know when to keep his mouth shut. He didn't use Damon just to 'protect' Elena. Then again given Damon's personality he couldn't. I can even let the 'Lovely Loves' slide because at least he isn't walking around on a high pedestal and putting Damon down like his show self.

The personalities in the books work so I don't know why they changed it. Especially Damon's. It's why the triangle isn't even working right in terms or writing.

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Well, Stefan was the one keeping stuff hidden. He kept his dirty laundry under lock and key from Elena but was busy lambasting Damon and his actions at every turn. Damon never sunk that low to put Stefan's past out there to Elena or her friends but just sat by and let Stefan drag his name through the mud without so much as defending his name. It would have gotten ugly amongst all of them though if you had 2 Vampires airing out everything they've done the past century and a half. Who to believe (they'd go with Stefan of course), do I keep a closer eye on this one, maybe I should look into the stories, etc..

Damon standing by though with all the crap Stefan spouted about him feeds into the self-esteem thing. The guy doesn't even bother to defend his name or his actions. Granted he's dealing with 'children' and he's been to war where quick, life-or-death decisions are needed. He probably feels he doesn't have to explain his actions in the heat of the moment cause hesitation could cost Elena one of her friends. I really do hate that they've dropped all the power he had from the books. Instead in the show, he's everyone's bitch =\

Elena always being mad at the guy doesn't make sense. Everyone else, OK, but Elena? She's the one who has the best picture of him yet she shares the same stance at times as her friends to be mad at him every time he shows up or to put him down at any opportunity, even if he's saving their lives? I really can't understand why he stays around these people. He keeps going to the edge for them and they spit in his face EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. And he takes it. It's annoying. "But he's in love with Elena." BS. You can be in love with someone but to allow them and their friends to walk all over you like that after all you do and to not say a word while being the '2nd choice' every time by everyone cause of your Brother? Walk Damon. Walk the hell away. I hate this part of his personality to just let this happen. How did he survive with most of these older Vampires he met?

Elena is confusing as a character because she just seems mad and stupid all the time now. Is she doing it to cope with all she's been through? All the loss? Someone needs to talk to her cause her coping is going to get others killed. But this seems par the course with the trio of BFFs. Elena, Bonnie & Caroline have their tender moments but other than that, all 3 of them seem more angry/bitchy most of the time now and giving Damon ****. The writers can't see to write consistent/good personalities that carry out for longer than a season, if that. Caroline is past her prime, Elena is 18 (forever) and you would think that all the crap she's been through would have been a learning/hardening experience but she acts so damn childish.

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Yes if anything is the problem it's Elena's character. She just needs to be written better. It's very hard to relate to her and we never really see her breaking down realistically with all the stuff that's been happening to her. She just gets up and goes on like it's another day. Like with Alaric it's not even a few hours since his supposed death in 3x20 and she rushes and gets his stuff from his classroom or home forgot where and it's like what?

In the books Elena wrote in her diary so we got to know what was going on in her head a lot and get a better picture of her. There was no guessing game involved and she didn't dance around the issue of Damon either since she also wrote about him we got how she felt. In the show it's always 'I don't know' and it's so annoying hearing that.

Elena's the main heroine and no one really gets her. Despite trying to change her Queen B personality from the books so she wouldn't be hated so much, she still receives hate either way.

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Entirely on the show runners. One of the aspects of the books was the diary entries and since that's not present in the show, they need to do a better job of conveying things for the viewer beyond 'I don't know'. Why they can't do this is beyond me. It takes a special kind of person to botch characters from one medium to another. I do think the reason they toned down Vampire powers is because they didn't want to have a larger budget for fights, transformations (Damon into a Wolf and Crow) and other various SFX (magic, altering the weather, etc.). Also for the Wolves, they went with the actual 'Wolf' form for the Werewolves instead of a bipedal/half-half design like Tyler was in the books (think more Teen Wolf).

So many missteps.