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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 13:02:33 GMT -5
A hybrids sire bond is automatic. They are grateful to Klaus in that they don't have to feel the pain of turning every month. I'd actually like to challenge this with a Jules/Brady Werewolf or one that has adjusted to the lifestyle of a Werewolf to the point of enjoying it (didn't mind the changes once a month and enjoyed the pack mentality). Would the bond still happen to one of them? If they had no problems with the life before and Klaus came and changed that when it wasn't an issue, would they still be 'grateful'? Good point. I never thought about that. I would think it wouldn't automatically sire them, but I am not sure. |
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Post by Slash on Dec 9, 2012 13:29:17 GMT -5
Well I guess we will see if the sire bond has nothing to do with her feelings, but I think it would be washing away three season of showing Elena and Stefan's love and how strong it is to say that this proves she did not love him and that is why it was not heightened. To think that maybe it is because she is not sired to him be more logical seems a bit like we are forgetting SE history. I like to chalk it up to Elena as a human (young and whatnot that people like to throw at me when I go on one of my rants about her). Some things she was sure on but when it came to Damon, she was never openly honest with others about him and I doubt she was with herself. She had her hand forced in making a choice at the end of S3 (something I don't agree needed to even be made but that's another matter). Not saying she didn't love Stefan, just that there was some 'behind the scenes' stuff about her feelings for Damon that aren't so 'behind the scenes' anymore now that she's a Vampire, not because of the sire bond. Sire bond just seems like too convenient of an 'excuse' to break things up at this point for SE instead of going with the idea that the two have kind of grown apart. I've mentioned in another thread but if Damon & Elena are going to try and work around or break the sire bond by other means, Damon needs to be very specific/watch what he says to the girl. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 15:48:16 GMT -5
Well I guess we will see if the sire bond has nothing to do with her feelings, but I think it would be washing away three season of showing Elena and Stefan's love and how strong it is to say that this proves she did not love him and that is why it was not heightened. To think that maybe it is because she is not sired to him be more logical seems a bit like we are forgetting SE history. I like to chalk it up to Elena as a human (young and whatnot that people like to throw at me when I go on one of my rants about her). Some things she was sure on but when it came to Damon, she was never openly honest with others about him and I doubt she was with herself. She had her hand forced in making a choice at the end of S3 (something I don't agree needed to even be made but that's another matter). Not saying she didn't love Stefan, just that there was some 'behind the scenes' stuff about her feelings for Damon that aren't so 'behind the scenes' anymore now that she's a Vampire, not because of the sire bond. Sire bond just seems like too convenient of an 'excuse' to break things up at this point for SE instead of going with the idea that the two have kind of grown apart. I've mentioned in another thread but if Damon & Elena are going to try and work around or break the sire bond by other means, Damon needs to be very specific/watch what he says to the girl. So Se is puppy love and DE is "real" love .... hmmmm yeah I guess I obviously disagree. |
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Post by Slash on Dec 9, 2012 16:07:44 GMT -5
I like to chalk it up to Elena as a human (young and whatnot that people like to throw at me when I go on one of my rants about her). Some things she was sure on but when it came to Damon, she was never openly honest with others about him and I doubt she was with herself. She had her hand forced in making a choice at the end of S3 (something I don't agree needed to even be made but that's another matter). Not saying she didn't love Stefan, just that there was some 'behind the scenes' stuff about her feelings for Damon that aren't so 'behind the scenes' anymore now that she's a Vampire, not because of the sire bond. Sire bond just seems like too convenient of an 'excuse' to break things up at this point for SE instead of going with the idea that the two have kind of grown apart. I've mentioned in another thread but if Damon & Elena are going to try and work around or break the sire bond by other means, Damon needs to be very specific/watch what he says to the girl. So Se is puppy love and DE is "real" love .... hmmmm yeah I guess I obviously disagree. I said nothing of the sort. I believe she loved Stefan earlier on and still does in some capacity but over the time she's spent with Damon, he's kind of become the one she wants to be with or atleast give the guy a chance. Stefan painted this ugly picture of the guy and he's turned out quite different in her eyes, in fact, he appeals to her on quite a few levels. I think the sire bond will amount to little in the end compared to the Hybrid one and when that comes to be, if some falling out happens with Damon after she's got a good footing with this Vampire thing (she's pretty much there), then she can try a relationship with Stefan again, as Vampires. See where that goes. Quite frankly though, I wish this 'triangle' would be done with. Dead and buried. I don't care who Elena ultimately ends up with and would be just as happy if all 3 said "Hey, it's not working out, I'll see you at our 10 year reunion" and split from MF in different directions. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 16:16:04 GMT -5
I agree and I think we are not alone (with the triangle)
That being said I think if the triangle comes to completion I think she will love them equally not one more than the other.
I guess from an SE stand point I believe the sire bond is more than well nothing. I think it would be a pointless storyline and I guess for me I have hopes of a season 3 role reversal where Elena was fighting for Stefan's humanity this season will be Stefan fighting for Elena's. Which would be beautiful for SE. I see that either DE fighting through the bond or the bond not being anything really is better story for DE. So as much as I am sick of the triangle I always watching hoping that SE love will prevail.
I think the shows has done a pretty shotty job with Defan so I am not very invested it that at all right now.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 9, 2012 16:31:29 GMT -5
the SB was result of feelings, so feelings affect SB not the other way around. true the foundations are different, that of Hybrids relieved them of an unbearable pain so it ought to be stronger than that of vamp. we have seen that a hybrid can't defy his master's order but Elena challenged Damon many times and examples are said before so many times am tired f repeating them. so if a stronger bond doesn't affect feelings then the weaker shouldn't by logic imo Charlotte didn't spent her whole time counting bricks, she said she's not crazy to do that, she never said she spent all her time except that when she needed to feed. so that's not literal. Damon even agreed it was literal which is why he was going to unsire her, but that's your opinion. I don't agree. Actually if u go back and watch the episode he tells Stefan it's not that literal. I think u heard that wrong. |
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Post by Slash on Dec 9, 2012 16:34:20 GMT -5
I agree and I think we are not alone (with the triangle) That being said I think if the triangle comes to completion I think she will love them equally not one more than the other. I guess from an SE stand point I believe the sire bond is more than well nothing. I think it would be a pointless storyline and I guess for me I have hopes of a season 3 role reversal where Elena was fighting for Stefan's humanity this season will be Stefan fighting for Elena's. Which would be beautiful for SE. I see that either DE fighting through the bond or the bond not being anything really is better story for DE. So as much as I am sick of the triangle I always watching hoping that SE love will prevail. I think the shows has done a pretty shotty job with Defan so I am not very invested it that at all right now. I'd be happy if that was the end result: if after all this, Elena realizes both Brothers have a place in her life and they just end up being really close friends, almost like family now, that live out the rest of eternity together. I think if Elena is taken out of the role of 'the girl to get' between both of them, she'd be the catalyst to get them back on track with this 'brother' thing that Katherine f'd up amazingly. I know she's done some damage but if Katherine got her crap together and was flying straight (Klaus out of the picture, no need to run, etc.), then both Brothers could probably end up with one or the other and end up happy (in the end, I'd like for both brothers to be happy with someone they love. Don't care if it's Elena or not. I've for a time wanted for Damon to get past his 'Elena' phase/get his show with her and move onto someone else. I thought Rose was perfect for him). I think the show has done a horrible job of handling the 'triangle' and I think the main fault of that is the hell the brothers are still going through with their own relationship with one another that's still being dragged out due to said triangle. We get these moments where they really act like Brothers and then something with the triangle/Elena sets them back again. They're 2nd guessing each other's motives, can't get in on the same plans unless someone screws up first, they take cheap shots at one another and so on. I was really hoping with Stefan's Ripper phase near the tail end of S3, that we'd get to see them both put Elena at the back of their mind (they'd still protect her) and that we'd get a stretch of episodes (a quarter/half a season?) of Damon helping Stefan gain the control of the Ripper he's never had. Damon told Stefan he was all he had and then the Writers just swept it under the rug and Stefan was saying he had control of it the next episode or so. We *ALWAYS* get these kinds of moments between the 2 and they're just ruined/amount to nothing in the same episode or the next. I hate it all the same with this past episode cause we saw Lexi running interference in the flashback when Damon was ready to leave NO and go to war with Stefan who was still trying to get a handle on his control. Meh  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 16:34:44 GMT -5
Damon even agreed it was literal which is why he was going to unsire her, but that's your opinion. I don't agree. Actually if u go back and watch the episode he tells Stefan it's not that literal. I think u heard that wrong. I'll rewatch it, but I feel like he said it in a way where he was not going to admit it, but was admiting it like It's not that literal, but knew it was pretty literal. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 9, 2012 16:51:50 GMT -5
The question that should be posed is not did vamperism heighten her emotions for Damon. Vamperism heightens all emotions. Her will, anger, sadness, love etc etc. We saw this with Caroline which is why she could hate Damon so much. Her hate could have been heightened for him when she changed. The question should be with all emotions heightened including her love for Damon bc she is a vampire and all emotions get heightened was her love for Stefan as well? She talked about her feelings being magnified to Stefan but of course they'd feel magnified bc she was never free to deal with her emotions for him. She hid them with guilt. Guilt won out and she made herself not accept her feelings. But they were real and strong and the bond proves this otherwise she wouldn't be bonded to Damon. Those feelings HAD to be strong before she changed in order for the SB to even work or complete itself.
So with that even the witch said human feelings triggers the bond. So she was always in love but she never wanted to be Kat and she buried that love under guilt locked it away threw out the key. Vamperism not the bond freed her of that guilt bc once all emotions and I think Stefan's were magnified too but thats my opinion, her feelings for Damon were bare, out there not to be ignored. They couldn't be ignored. She finally had to face them. Did her feelings magnify more for Damon than Stefan because she finally had them there and was acknowledging them is the question. Her feelings for Bonnie, Care and Jer were all heightened too so of course her feelings for Stefan did as well but so did her feelings for Damon. Feelings she made herself ignore. Feelings she felt guilty for having.
And ya if Damon does fix her the way Care and Stefan want him to he is taking Elena's choice to love and her desire to be with him. Feelings that have nothing to do with the sire bond! So should we fix Elena and take away her choices concerning her love for Damon (because really who cares about those right?) or help find a way around the bond so that Damon and Elena can be happy? Why the fix as the resolution? Her feelings have nothing to do with the SB. All they are doing is taking away her loyalty to him which Elena already fights him on because Damon said to Stefan, it's not that literal!
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 9, 2012 17:03:24 GMT -5
Oh and Charlotte was a horrible example of the bond. When Damon said she was "crazy" for me so when she asked me to I turned her.... he was being literal. That girl was crazy! I think she was obsessed with Damon and that is why she did stupid things like kill the guy because he spilled Damon's drink or brought him dinner to please him. Or even how she counted bricks by listening to that song she hates because it reminded her of Damon. Charlotte loyalty to Damon was not built on true love but obsession and this is why she acted so crazy!
I mean they had her talk a certain way and be almost expressionless to show the audience the exact opposite of another sire bond situation and how different personalities are going to react differently to the bond when it comes to loyalty.
They made her say "I'm not crazy" to show that maybe we should question her insanity before she turned not whether the bond caused her to be insane.
That's how i saw it at least!
And they would not have had this moment where Tyler and Elena talk about the bond where he says it's not about feelings but actions for nothing. So lets just throw this scene into the episode when we are trying to explain to the audience about sire bonds but have it literally nothing to do with Damon and Elena but have Elena even reference this to Damon at the end of the episode!
I don't buy that the Hybrid bond is completely different. There is a reason why they added it in there!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 17:06:21 GMT -5
Actually if u go back and watch the episode he tells Stefan it's not that literal. I think u heard that wrong. I'll rewatch it, but I feel like he said it in a way where he was not going to admit it, but was admiting it like It's not that literal, but knew it was pretty literal. Just watched it and Charolette said "I must have counted literally every brick on every building in New Orleans." Stefan Said "Literally every brick." Damon face-acknowledgment of what was right in front of him. After the break Charlotte says that is not all she did "She's not crazy." BUT she did do literally exactly what he told her to do. Count every brick. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 17:12:56 GMT -5
Oh and Elena was suppose to not tell Stefan about her and Damon. He never said anything about Caroline and Bonnie.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 9, 2012 17:15:19 GMT -5
Not that scene and.... anyway Charlotte defused that anyway by saying she didn't sit there and do that and had a life!
The scene I was talking about was when Damon got the text from Elena about "making herself at home" and Stefan says well you told her to so she does and then Damon says "the Sire bond is not that literal Stefan". Then Stefan asks him to name one thing which we all named tons of things that Damon asked her to do that he didn't get like when he told her to call Stefan and she flat out refused!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 17:17:00 GMT -5
Not that scene and.... anyway Charlotte defused that anyway by saying she didn't sit there and do that and had a life! The scene I was talking about was when Damon got the text from Elena about "making herself at home" and Stefan says well you told her to so she does and then Damon says "the Sire bond is not that literal Stefan". Then Stefan asks him to name one thing which we all named tons of things that Damon asked her to do that he didn't get like when he told her to call Stefan and she flat out refused! Yes that was prior to him witnessing how literal it was and no that was not all she did you're right. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 17:22:34 GMT -5
I wonder how the scene would have gone down with Caroline if Damon was there would she have sacrificed herself after Damon most likley would have told her not to.
I take back that Elena was not Elena. In that moment away from Damon and not talking about Damon she was. She was herself.
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