Klaus Sire Bond vs Damon Sire Bond

[Deleted]

Klaus- What he wants- obedience. he does not want to be friends with his hybrids he wants them to be obedient to his orders. He does not love any of them so he does not want them to love him either. Plus his sire bond did not begin with any friendly or loving feelings and so their feelings would not be affected.

Damons- wants Elena to love him- This bond did start because of feelings prior to being a vampire so I would say that it could be different than the Klaus one because of that. Yes, the hybrid one did not effect their feelings because it was not born from their feelings of Klaus, but this is different. Elena's sirebond was born out of her feelings for Damon. They already said her feelings were magnified for him-So that is admitting that it effected her feelings.

So yes that was Tyler's experience, but his sire bond is not the same. I think the girl that Damon use to know is a much better example of the sire bond and its possible effects on Elena and her feelings and her decisions.

[Ruby2579]

Yes and the thing is in the last episode I didnt want Damon to unsire her away. Because the wording is just stupid. Same way they found loopholes with the complusion they will do the same with this.

Also like i brought up in the other thread. TYLER says it before that you dont want to please your sire you want to make them happy.

So when Damon was telling Elena you know what would make me happy....to know that all this time ive been in love with you i knew your feelings would be real. And she right away says it is real. She knows its real but is it really real to the level shes feeling

Thats the mystery right now

[Deleted]

What do you mean Charlotte is a better example of a sire bond? If Charlotte was 'the' example of a vampire sire bond then Elena would be acting exactly as she was but she's not. Elena doesn't mindlessly follow what Damon says. There have been many examples already.

4x04 she didn't feed on the blonde girl he wanted her to at the college and in that same episode where she was dancing with Damon she felt guilty and stopped when it would have obviously made Damon happy if she had kept going. 4x06 he told her to call Stefan and she argued him on it and in the end didn't. Charlotte never fought Damon on anything and took everything he said literally.

A hybrids sire bond is automatic. They are grateful to Klaus in that they don't have to feel the pain of turning every month.

For a vampire Nandi told us this past episode, “A vampire only bonds with her sire when she has feelings for him, before she turns. Human feelings! Vampirism only heightens those emotions.”

Not only that but it's a one in a million chance so saying, 'Damon wants Elena to love him.' does not increase the chances of the sire bond happening. He didn't even love Charlotte and she still sire bonded to him. It depends strictly on the humans feelings and chance.

We've seen Klaus sire many hybrids and no matter how much they fight him on an order they end up doing it anyways. That's with every case we've seen. There hasn't been a hybrid who waltzed in and defied Klaus.

We only know of TWO cases of a vampire sire bond; Charlotte and Elena and both of their cases were different. Charlotte listened to Damon on everything and didn't fight him and Elena has obviously not followed every thing he's said this season from the examples I gave above.

So we don't have a pattern. We only have two people to go by which is basically apples and oranges at this point.

Although if we're going to pick and choose I'd say Elena's is the much better example of a sire bond.

ruby Tyler said the sire bond affects how you act not how you feel. We shouldn't take the sire bond thing as a game of simon says.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 11:34:10 GMT -5 @anbuprincess said:

What do you mean Charlotte is a better example of a sire bond? If Charlotte was 'the' example of a vampire sire bond then Elena would be acting exactly as she was but she's not. Elena doesn't mindlessly follow what Damon says. There have been many examples already.

4x04 she didn't feed on the blonde girl he wanted her to at the college and in that same episode where she was dancing with Damon she felt guilty and stopped when it would have obviously made Damon happy if she had kept going. 4x06 he told her to call Stefan and she argued him on it and in the end didn't. Charlotte never fought Damon on anything and took everything he said literally.

A hybrids sire bond is automatic. They are grateful to Klaus in that they don't have to feel the pain of turning every month.

For a vampire Nandi told us this past episode, “A vampire only bonds with her sire when she has feelings for him, before she turns. Human feelings! Vampirism only heightens those emotions.”

Not only that but it's a one in a million chance so saying, 'Damon wants Elena to love him.' does not increase the chances of the sire bond happening. He didn't even love Charlotte and she still sire bonded to him. It depends strictly on the humans feelings and chance.

We've seen Klaus sire many hybrids and no matter how much they fight him on an order they end up doing it anyways. That's with every case we've seen. There hasn't been a hybrid who waltzed in and defied Klaus.

We only know of TWO cases of a vampire sire bond; Charlotte and Elena and both of their cases were different. Charlotte listened to Damon on everything and didn't fight him and Elena has obviously not followed every thing he's said this season from the examples I gave above.

So we don't have a pattern. We only have two people to go by which is basically apples and oranges at this point.

Although if we're going to pick and choose I'd say Elena's is the much better example of a sire bond.

Well as you just stated is not THE example because it is not exactly the same it has been decades for Charlotte and Damon only gave her one command. So who knows what she was like when she was first sired. So it is not THE example because every situation is different as you already stated at the end of your response.

Oh and I was not talking about the chance of a sire bond. I was talking about the origin of the sire bond.

The origin of the Hybrid bond vs the Vampire Sire Bond. So yes magnified or heighten feelings. The feelings were there, but not at the same level. In my eyes it was like "I love you" to "I'm in love with you" I do believe she loved and was attracted to Damon as a human, but was she in love with him and will she be without the sire bond I guess is the question.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 11:14:33 GMT -5 Ruby2579 said:

Yes and the thing is in the last episode I didnt want Damon to unsire her away. Because the wording is just stupid. Same way they found loopholes with the complusion they will do the same with this.

Also like i brought up in the other thread. TYLER says it before that you dont want to please your sire you want to make them happy.

So when Damon was telling Elena you know what would make me happy....to know that all this time ive been in love with you i knew your feelings would be real. And she right away says it is real. She knows its real but is it really real to the level shes feeling

Thats the mystery right now

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Good point!

[liajones]

Dec 9, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5 @teppy1 said:

Elena's sirebond was born out of her feelings for Damon. They already said her feelings were magnified for him-So that is admitting that it effected her feelings.

it was never said that Elena's feelings were magnified as result of a SB, it was rather as a result of being turned into a vamp, as any other emotion gets magnified.

So yes that was Tyler's experience, but his sire bond is not the same. I think the girl that Damon use to know is a much better example of the sire bond and its possible effects on Elena and her feelings and her decisions.

and as said, an SB doesn't affect feelings rather actions.

so Elena loves Damon and her loves her back, so how can commanding her to forget about hi etc be the "right thing". She loved him before she turned, that was her choice, and she still loves him after she turned; Damon never told her LOVE ME. She wanted to dance with him, she kissed him and slept with him, he never asked her to do any of those things. All her, and all her choices.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 12:24:00 GMT -5 liajones said:

Dec 9, 2012 9:39:12 GMT -5 @teppy1 said:

Elena's sirebond was born out of her feelings for Damon. They already said her feelings were magnified for him-So that is admitting that it effected her feelings.

it was never said that Elena's feelings were magnified as result of a SB, it was rather as a result of being turned into a vamp, as any other emotion gets magnified.

So yes that was Tyler's experience, but his sire bond is not the same. I think the girl that Damon use to know is a much better example of the sire bond and its possible effects on Elena and her feelings and her decisions.

and as said, an SB doesn't affect feelings rather actions.

so Elena loves Damon and her loves her back, so how can commanding her to forget about hi etc be the "right thing". She loved him before she turned, that was her choice, and she still loves him after she turned; Damon never told her LOVE ME. She wanted to dance with him, she kissed him and slept with him, he never asked her to do any of those things. All her, and all her choices.

The bond only happened because of feelings so with that logic it would affect feelings (imo)

second I think Charlotte listening to that song for decades was as literal as it could be without is causing it to kill herself because she wouldn't feed.

As TYLER said it does not effect feelings just actions. I am challenging that fact. I believe that because the foundation/origin of the bonds are different the affects are different.

[Deleted]

Oh and this was on tumblr and basically sums up my feelings on the last part of your post

"Ok here’s how I see things..We all know Elena had feelings for Damon before she turned, but were never nearly strong enough for her to want to be with him over Stefan. Elena will fall in love with Damon because of the sire bond for many reasons - first it magnified her already existing feelings. We also have to remember that they didn’t know she was sired, so everything he has said her body has registered, like the blood thing. It’s no one’s fault, but it happened and it has had an impact, especially him telling her that she is like him and that he has never seen her more alive, when she was suicidal *crickets*, but that’s not the point…She changed so much to please him, because that is what drives the sire bond…Tyler says it doesn’t impact how you feel about someone, but it impacts your actions. And Elena didn’t hate Damon or dislike Damon before she turned, so idk why some people act like she did. But all of her actions have been subconsciously driven by the desire to please Damon and do what Damon wants for/from her, so yes the sire bond is what made Delena happen. Her feelings for Stefan are not gone, but she doesn’t seem to care about what he feels right now, but then again Damon told her it’s their time now, so she listened and as we found out the sire bond is very literal. Another thing is that Elena thinks Stefan can’t love her as a vampire and that her friends dislike her, so the only person who she thinks likes her like this (makes me wonder who exactly he fell in love with to begin with, if he is fine with whoever she is as long as she’s his, but I digress) is Damon….and she is afraid of being alone…and here comes the great line from The Perks Of Being A Wallflower - “We accept the love we think we deserve’”….also I think that Elena doesn’t really understand the sire bond and her believing in it fully and understanding the hold it has on her will come at a great price in the near future…and I think that price will be not only the life of someone she cares about, but also her humanity…But that’s just my theory.."

[liajones]

the SB was result of feelings, so feelings affect SB not the other way around.
true the foundations are different, that of Hybrids relieved them of an unbearable pain so it ought to be stronger than that of vamp. we have seen that a hybrid can't defy his master's order but Elena challenged Damon many times and examples are said before so many times am tired f repeating them. so if a stronger bond doesn't affect feelings then the weaker shouldn't by logic imo

Charlotte didn't spent her whole time counting bricks, she said she's not crazy to do that, she never said she spent all her time except that when she needed to feed. so that's not literal.

[Slash]

Dec 9, 2012 11:39:13 GMT -5 @teppy1 said:

The origin of the Hybrid bond vs the Vampire Sire Bond. So yes magnified or heighten feelings. The feelings were there, but not at the same level. In my eyes it was like "I love you" to "I'm in love with you" I do believe she loved and was attracted to Damon as a human, but was she in love with him and will she be without the sire bond I guess is the question.

Yes? Transition to a Vampire is what's the cause of this, not the sire bond itself. The sire bond is a non-issue. Elena could never really give a straight answer as a human about Damon which led people to believe she wasn't being honest with herself. When someone asked her about him, she'd give the "I don't know" or no answer at all (interruptions). She seemed to have a fear of giving an honest answer to the question.

Now that she's a Vampire, her emotions are to a point where she acts on them now. She really can't hide from them. Would Human Elena have acted the way Vampire Elena did when Bekah was pulling the high school crap? Going as far as getting the Stake and ready to kill the girl? No. Human Elena sat by and watched people run over Damon in conversations. Vampire Elena has the impulse to actually correct people now and defend him. She's going to defend people in a more 'extreme' way now as a Vampire (we've seen her get physical over Matt & Jeremy's protection from Damon and Connor respectively). Her becoming a Vampire just 'freed' her up to where she'll act on the feelings for Damon she had among other things. She's no longer mentally inhibiting herself on certain emotions (anger included).

It's not exactly a crap shoot either. She loved Stefan as a human. Those feelings for him as a Vampire would have only grown all the same as everything else but either she didn't love him as much as she was letting on or all that pint up neglect on actually being honest with herself about Damon has trumped the former during the transition.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 12:37:21 GMT -5 liajones said:

the SB was result of feelings, so feelings affect SB not the other way around.
true the foundations are different, that of Hybrids relieved them of an unbearable pain so it ought to be stronger than that of vamp. we have seen that a hybrid can't defy his master's order but Elena challenged Damon many times and examples are said before so many times am tired f repeating them. so if a stronger bond doesn't affect feelings then the weaker shouldn't by logic imo

Charlotte didn't spent her whole time counting bricks, she said she's not crazy to do that, she never said she spent all her time except that when she needed to feed. so that's not literal.

Damon even agreed it was literal which is why he was going to unsire her, but that's your opinion. I don't agree.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 12:39:38 GMT -5 Slash said:

Dec 9, 2012 11:39:13 GMT -5 @teppy1 said:

The origin of the Hybrid bond vs the Vampire Sire Bond. So yes magnified or heighten feelings. The feelings were there, but not at the same level. In my eyes it was like "I love you" to "I'm in love with you" I do believe she loved and was attracted to Damon as a human, but was she in love with him and will she be without the sire bond I guess is the question.

Yes? Transition to a Vampire is what's the cause of this, not the sire bond itself. The sire bond is a non-issue. Elena could never really give a straight answer as a human about Damon which led people to believe she wasn't being honest with herself. When someone asked her about him, she'd give the "I don't know" or no answer at all (interruptions). She seemed to have a fear of giving an honest answer to the question.

Now that she's a Vampire, her emotions are to a point where she acts on them now. She really can't hide from them. Would Human Elena have acted the way Vampire Elena did when Bekah was pulling the high school crap? Going as far as getting the Stake and ready to kill the girl? No. Human Elena sat by and watched people run over Damon in conversations. Vampire Elena has the impulse to actually correct people now and defend him. She's going to defend people in a more 'extreme' way now as a Vampire (we've seen her get physical over Matt & Jeremy's protection from Damon and Connor respectively). Her becoming a Vampire just 'freed' her up to where she'll act on the feelings for Damon she had among other things. She's no longer mentally inhibiting herself on certain emotions (anger included).

It's not exactly a crap shoot either. She loved Stefan as a human. Those feelings for him as a Vampire would have only grown all the same as everything else but either she didn't love him as much as she was letting on or all that pint up neglect on actually being honest with herself about Damon has trumped the former during the transition.

Well I guess we will see if the sire bond has nothing to do with her feelings, but I think it would be washing away three season of showing Elena and Stefan's love and how strong it is to say that this proves she did not love him and that is why it was not heightened. To think that maybe it is because she is not sired to him be more logical seems a bit like we are forgetting SE history.

[Slash]

Dec 9, 2012 11:34:10 GMT -5 @anbuprincess said:

A hybrids sire bond is automatic. They are grateful to Klaus in that they don't have to feel the pain of turning every month.

I'd actually like to challenge this with a Jules/Brady Werewolf or one that has adjusted to the lifestyle of a Werewolf to the point of enjoying it (didn't mind the changes once a month and enjoyed the pack mentality). Would the bond still happen to one of them? If they had no problems with the life before and Klaus came and changed that when it wasn't an issue, would they still be 'grateful'?

[liajones]

he wasn't going to unsire her, he was going to COMMAND her to forget him etc. that's taking her choice away.
if it's that literal, then the past episodes refute it. but it's not.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2012 12:45:21 GMT -5 liajones said:

he wasn't going to unsire her, he was going to COMMAND her to forget him etc. that's taking her choice away.
if it's that literal, then the past episodes refute it. but it's not.

I do agree that in this case the wording to unsire someone is a little extreme and I think they will find a way around that wording. Or you are right he would be a little damned if does and damned if doesn't