Stefan's solution to the Sire-Bond

[luvitornot]

Hi!

Something has been bugging me about this sire-bond thing and I just can't seem to stop thinking about it. When the brothers went to New Orleans the witch Nandi explained to them that the only way to "breaK" the sire bond is to tell the sired person never to think about you and leave town and never see them again etc. etc.

Obviously that would be a very difficult thing for Damon to do given how much he loves Elena and he finally gets to be with her. That aside, how could Stefan ever be okay with this solution in the first place? More importantly knowing Elena has real feelings for Damon underneath this supposed sire-bond how would that solution be fair to Elena? Stefan keeps harping on about how it would be the "right" thing but in what way is this right? Right for who? For him maybe but no one else.

Basically Stefan expected Damon to let Elena go and disappear from her life forever?? because even if he lets her go, if he's still around it doesn't work. I keep reading that Damon was selfish for not "letting Elena go" right away but it seems to me that Stefan isn't thinking about anyone's best interest other than his own. He wants/wanted Elena back and if he has to subject his brother abject loneliness in order to do that he'll do it. Because surely he wasn't about to leave WITH Damon, not with Elena all emotionally vulnerable and needing a shoulder to cry on. It just seems really selfish to me which seems to be a running theme with Stefan this season. Because when Stefan wants to find a way around the "impossible" he does or he at the very least tries.

See: Getting Damon cured and finding a solution so that Elena wouldn't have to transition.

Yet he makes no effort to come up with any alternative for the sire-bond. He takes Nandi's words as the gospel and the "only" solution is for Damon to disappear forever and ever. Which isn't surprising because last season he made it perfectly clear that if Elena chose him, he wouldn't want Damon around and practically forced his brother to agree to those terms. But then the vampirism thing happened and everything was going so well between him and Elena (or so he thought), until they weren't and once again Damon is the "problem" just like he predicted Damon would be, so Damon has to go.

Now presumably he's gonna be mad at Damon for not letting her go soon enough or something??? Who ever gave Stefan a time restriction on doing the "right thing" Why does he feel he has the right to put one on his brother?

What are your thoughts on this topic?

[Ruby2579]

Jan 17, 2013 11:53:39 GMT -5 luvitornot said:

Hi!

Something has been bugging me about this sire-bond thing and I just can't seem to stop thinking about it. When the brothers went to New Orleans the witch Nandi explained to them that the only way to "breaK" the sire bond is to tell the sired person never to think about you and leave town and never see them again etc. etc.

Obviously that would be a very difficult thing for Damon to do given how much he loves Elena and he finally gets to be with her. That aside, how could Stefan ever be okay with this solution in the first place? More importantly knowing Elena has real feelings for Damon underneath this supposed sire-bond how would that solution be fair to Elena? Stefan keeps harping on about how it would be the "right" thing but in what way is this right? Right for who? For him maybe but no one else.

Basically Stefan expected Damon to let Elena go and disappear from her life forever?? because even if he lets her go, if he's still around it doesn't work. I keep reading that Damon was selfish for not "letting Elena go" right away but it seems to me that Stefan isn't thinking about anyone's best interest other than his own. He wants/wanted Elena back and if he has to subject his brother abject loneliness in order to do that he'll do it. Because surely he wasn't about to leave WITH Damon, not with Elena all emotionally vulnerable and needing a shoulder to cry on. It just seems really selfish to me which seems to be a running theme with Stefan this season. Because when Stefan wants to find a way around the "impossible" he does or he at the very least tries.

See: Getting Damon cured and finding a solution so that Elena wouldn't have to transition.

Yet he makes no effort to come up with any alternative for the sire-bond. He takes Nandi's words as the gospel and the "only" solution is for Damon to disappear forever and ever. Which isn't surprising because last season he made it perfectly clear that if Elena chose him, he wouldn't want Damon around and practically forced his brother to agree to those terms. But then the vampirism thing happened and everything was going so well between him and Elena (or so he thought), until they weren't and once again Damon is the "problem" just like he predicted Damon would be, so Damon has to go.

Now presumably he's gonna be mad at Damon for not letting her go soon enough or something??? Who ever gave Stefan a time restriction on doing the "right thing" Why does he feel he has the right to put one on his brother?

What are your thoughts on this topic?

These are my thoughts on this topic.

I do not think Stefan necessarily wanted Damon gone for Good. I think he wanted him to break the sire bond so Elena can have her "free will" back. Which is very important to Stefan.

I think Stefan did feel that the sire bond had to do with Elena's change of feelings all of a sudden for Damon..In the sense that they were so heightened it made a shift between him and Elena

Stefan has a plan to carry out which is to find the cure for Elena. He knows more or less what he has to do. He knows that Damon staying away from Elena would only be temporary because once Elena is human again Damon would not have to worried about the sire bond.

And I also think Stefan knew now more then ever Damon would be 1000 percent on board with helping in finding the cure.

So did Stefan really expect Damon to leave for Good? I don't think so. If it was like that Stefan would've sent Damon packing on his way when Damon mentioned it in episode 2 or 3

Also Im tired of people saying that Stefan forced Damon into making those terms that if one was chosen the other would leave. That was Stefan being Stefan. Saying that after everything is Elena choose you I will leave so I don't interfere or cause any drama and let you guys be happy.

He was willing to sacrifice having to see his love of his life and the love of his brother to let them be happy.

Damon knew this and thats why he decided to agree to those terms because he felt it would be the right thing to do.

[Doppelgänger]

Yeah but that's alot of assuming going on. All we know is what Stefan said and what he said was that he expected Damon to do it. He didn't mention Damon being able to come back when the sire bond was broken or anything of that nature to make it seem not permanent. Damon isn't even sure there is a 'cure.'

I mean we know Stefan does not like having Damon around because it interferes with him and Elena. It's not a mystery. At the same time, he does like having him around to some extent because he's his brother and even as strained as it is, they have that bond. I'm not sure how bonded they will be going into the future with this mess they are in now though.

But I agree with the OP for the most part. Stefan would like Damon out of the picture more than he wants him there at this point. It seems to be the case from the story as we've been told it. He did not consider Damon's feelings in the equation as he never does. He didn't even consider Elena's feelings in the equation.

[Sweetluv4DE]

Stefan knew what ending the bond would entail and he still expected his brother to do it. He expected him to leave even if it was for a month that's torture? How could Stefan ever do that? How could he be away from Elena for even a month or until they found a cure not knowing if she was safe, if Jeremy was safe and if all was well in Mystic Falls. YA Not even in the least bit realistic!

Second Stefan stood there and heard Nandi say that the Sire Bond does not affect feelings. That it only affects actions. And that in order to evoke a sire bond the human must have human feelings before she turned. So Stefan knew she had real feelings. That she had feelings before and after she turned. Why would he want to take that "choice" to LOVE Damon away from Elena? How fair is that? Talk about Choices. Let's just "MAKE" Damon do the right thing like Elena is a child and has no say. So because Stefan and Caroline want Damon to do what Nandi says (like you said is she the gospel of Sire Bonds???) and not ask Elena? Or is she like a incapacitated human being where she needs a care giver making her decisions because she is so sire bonded she cant make up her mind herself?

And this whole the vamperisim heightened those feelings for Damon have NOTHING to do with the sire bond but with having heightened emotions as a vampire. Guess what..her feelings for Stefan were heightened too. Oh and her hate for Spinach was probably heightened too. Oh and her hate for Klaus and Rebekah which was shown... her love for Jeremy and probably her love for writing in her journal was heightened since she picked it up and started writing in it again. ALL EMOTIONS WERE HEIGHTENED! So if she chose Damon it's not because her emotions were heightened it's because she chose Damon. Stefan and Damon were on equal playing fields.

And if anyone wants to argue that her emotions were not heightened for Stefan and just for Damon then tell me why that is? Cause I feel sorry for SE in that case. ALL emotions are heightened but not for Stefan? Again Nandi said VAMPERISIM causes Heightened feelings not the Sire Bond. So the Sire Bond has NADA Nip Nothing to do with her feelings for Damon.

The whole deal can be really decided off of opinion. I think Stefan felt it convenient to make the deal because he knew or had enough confidence that Elena would chose him. Even if she wasn't going to he just knew she would chose him. he was sort of cocky about it in my book. He had zero doubt. So he wasn't making that deal as a confused, scared vampire. He made that deal with confidence in the outcome. But again this is my opinion or how I saw it. I don't think he forced him into it I just think he had so much confidence that he would win so he didn't think twice to make the deal.

Personally I think the cure in Stefan's world is to fix Elena. She didn't want to be fixed until she realized she was sire bonded so what does that say? I mean she didn't want to risk Jeremy. But now that she has confidence that her feelings for Damon are real but that the bond will deter them from having a real relationship she is on board. It's not for Stefan. It's for her to be free of the bond so she and Damon can be together normally. If you remember in the Mystic Episode she told Stefan to let go. That she didn't want to be cured if that meant hurting Jeremy. She let go of the cure that day.

Stefan still thinks Damon should Un-bond her and let her be a vampire but yet he still wants the cure too. So even if Damon... lets say did the right thing.... (rolls eyes) then Elena would be a vampire. A Normal vampire. So why the cure? Why keep pushing Jeremy into this whole thing? She can be a vampire and live forever. Yes she didn't want this life but she specifically said that she didn't want the cure if it would hurt Jeremy so without the bond shouldn't those rules still apply?

I'm confused....

[proxi]

But if Elena's feelings are real and he tells her to forget him is not that also against her agency as well? It works both ways... She's not FREE TO LOVE HIM.

[Doppelgänger]

Yup, but Stefan doesn't care about that. It makes Elena free FOR HIM again. I think Elena was dead on that he treats her like a broken doll. Everything he says and does screams it. He wants his dolly back the way he liked her. Now he says he hates Damon and he said he wanted to just erase Elena's memory from his mind if he can't have her. Whatever buddy! Walk away....walk far far away. Elena will be better off without someone like that. He only wants her on his terms. Now that things aren't going well for him, he wants to forget her existence. Wow, just wow. Damon wants her anyway she is. He loves her that much, that no matter who Elena Gilbert is and even who she loves, he wants her and he'll be by her side through anything. THAT is true love.

[luvitornot]

Jan 17, 2013 12:04:49 GMT -5 Ruby2579 said:

Jan 17, 2013 11:53:39 GMT -5 luvitornot said:

Hi!

Something has been bugging me about this sire-bond thing and I just can't seem to stop thinking about it. When the brothers went to New Orleans the witch Nandi explained to them that the only way to "breaK" the sire bond is to tell the sired person never to think about you and leave town and never see them again etc. etc.

Obviously that would be a very difficult thing for Damon to do given how much he loves Elena and he finally gets to be with her. That aside, how could Stefan ever be okay with this solution in the first place? More importantly knowing Elena has real feelings for Damon underneath this supposed sire-bond how would that solution be fair to Elena? Stefan keeps harping on about how it would be the "right" thing but in what way is this right? Right for who? For him maybe but no one else.

Basically Stefan expected Damon to let Elena go and disappear from her life forever?? because even if he lets her go, if he's still around it doesn't work. I keep reading that Damon was selfish for not "letting Elena go" right away but it seems to me that Stefan isn't thinking about anyone's best interest other than his own. He wants/wanted Elena back and if he has to subject his brother abject loneliness in order to do that he'll do it. Because surely he wasn't about to leave WITH Damon, not with Elena all emotionally vulnerable and needing a shoulder to cry on. It just seems really selfish to me which seems to be a running theme with Stefan this season. Because when Stefan wants to find a way around the "impossible" he does or he at the very least tries.

See: Getting Damon cured and finding a solution so that Elena wouldn't have to transition.

Yet he makes no effort to come up with any alternative for the sire-bond. He takes Nandi's words as the gospel and the "only" solution is for Damon to disappear forever and ever. Which isn't surprising because last season he made it perfectly clear that if Elena chose him, he wouldn't want Damon around and practically forced his brother to agree to those terms. But then the vampirism thing happened and everything was going so well between him and Elena (or so he thought), until they weren't and once again Damon is the "problem" just like he predicted Damon would be, so Damon has to go.

Now presumably he's gonna be mad at Damon for not letting her go soon enough or something??? Who ever gave Stefan a time restriction on doing the "right thing" Why does he feel he has the right to put one on his brother?

What are your thoughts on this topic?

These are my thoughts on this topic.

I do not think Stefan necessarily wanted Damon gone for Good. I think he wanted him to break the sire bond so Elena can have her "free will" back. Which is very important to Stefan.

I think Stefan did feel that the sire bond had to do with Elena's change of feelings all of a sudden for Damon..In the sense that they were so heightened it made a shift between him and Elena

Stefan has a plan to carry out which is to find the cure for Elena. He knows more or less what he has to do. He knows that Damon staying away from Elena would only be temporary because once Elena is human again Damon would not have to worried about the sire bond.

And I also think Stefan knew now more then ever Damon would be 1000 percent on board with helping in finding the cure.

So did Stefan really expect Damon to leave for Good? I don't think so. If it was like that Stefan would've sent Damon packing on his way when Damon mentioned it in episode 2 or 3

Also Im tired of people saying that Stefan forced Damon into making those terms that if one was chosen the other would leave. That was Stefan being Stefan. Saying that after everything is Elena choose you I will leave so I don't interfere or cause any drama and let you guys be happy.

He was willing to sacrifice having to see his love of his life and the love of his brother to let them be happy.

Damon knew this and thats why he decided to agree to those terms because he felt it would be the right thing to do.

You could be right that he didn't intend for him to leave for good. But that's the impression I got after Damon had to invoke the sire-bond with Charlotte, which was supposed to be a clear parallel to what Damon was supposed to do with Elena. There was no indication or even a conversation about it being temporary, they still had very little information about this supposed cure, or how long it would take to get it. So Stefan didn't have a time-line of any kind to give to Damon, so he was expecting Damon to be out of Elena's life for some undetermined amount of time. That could be any where from 1 day to an eternity.

Elena's free will was the least important thing to Stefan at that point. It goes against her "free will" so to speak to force away from Damon, but he didn't seem to have any qualms about violating that. The most important thing to Stefan at that moment and still at this point is to prove to Damon and to himself, that Elena could never want Damon unless she was "broken."

And about the deal. I mean I feel like it was all in the subtext. Subtext is very important in this show, especially when you want to understand Stefan as Stefan is not always what he seems on the surface. Stefan only brought up that deal because he wanted Damon to agree to the same thing. Because Stefan knew his chances of getting back with Elena were much higher than her choosing Damon's (he made sure of that when he used Alaric's death to gain her favor in 3.20). It's classic Stefan manipulation IMO, because as he stated this, he promptly waited for Damon to say the same even though it was obvious that Damon didn't want to. It was his way of making sure once Elena chose him. that her pesky feelings for Damon would not be an issue.

This was anything but a sacrifice. Stefan at that point cared very little about Damon's happiness and he still doesn't till this moment. There is no way he'd just leave so that they could be happy, since he doesn't even believe Damon deserves to be happy. Stefan thinks the worst of his brother, this is a fact. He doesn't think Damon deserves to have Elena's affections, he said as much himself, so why in the world would he be leaving to let them (meaning Damon) be happy? That interpretation doesn't make much sense to me. If Stefan wasn't still so hateful toward Damon, I'd maybe be able to interpret it that way, but he is.

I saw it as insurance. He knew the odds were in his favor and that deal was going to get him, his life with Elena without any interruptions from Damon. I won't even comment on how presumptuous it was of him to assume that Elena would want to spend her entire human life time with him in the first place. As if she wouldn't want anything else, no husband, kids, or a normal life. That sorta thing makes me question Stefan's sanity.

[Doppelgänger]

This is exactly how I see Stefan, too and why the SEs don't is beyond me. He lied to Elena forever. Heck he's still lying when he said she slept with Damon and that's why they broke up. If someone has proven their tendency toward lies, why would you believe them?

He has said all manner of hateful things toward Damon and even to Damon all the time, all the way through the entire show with very little remorse for it. He has always thought he was better than Damon and I think him going through the Ripper thing again disgusted him because he sunk to Damon's level in his mind, not below though, heck no! Damon is the worst anyone can get as far as he is concerned. That's probably why some of his fans think it, too, because they take what he says, thinks, feels onboard and don't look at the truth.

I honestly think Damon is Stefan's catalyst for all things awful so he can feel good about himself and never look at himself like he should. It's always, but Damon is worse. (Funny that his fans say the same thing rather than dealing with or talking about Stefan's issues). Stefan is fooling himself and for 150 years he has fooled himself into believing he is something that he isn't and he'll lie and he'll put a world in place that fits his imagined self (ie Elena that he persued so he could feel alive) all to avoid facing the reality of who he really is.

Stefan's big arc should be coming to terms with himself and what and who he is and then tackling overcoming the Ripper knowing full well that THAT is him, that is who he is, too, and if he ever wants to be a better person he has to overcome it, not bury it, hide it, pretend it doesn't exist.

So Stefan's feelings for Damon do have a huge impact on why he could care less if there was another way they could break the sire bond without it hurting Damon and Elena.