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Post by missmystic on Apr 15, 2014 15:36:41 GMT -5
I have a question for everyone: I am surprised by the lack of Twilight referencing on this site. Is it being avoided as a sensitive subject? I'm curious to know where the general consensus lies with everyone here. Are the majority of people FOR or AGAINST Twilight? Or are people mostly neutral? I like to avoid ruffling feathers, but I also like to vent sometimes, so I just want to know where people stand before any battle lines are drawn.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 15, 2014 15:57:37 GMT -5
hahaha! Well you could put it in the debates section if it's controversial. I am not much into Twilight myself. I did go see the movies though because I like vampires in general as a genre but the Twilight vamps are a bit 'light' for me. I prefer my vampires a bit meaner.
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Post by missmystic on Apr 16, 2014 12:50:33 GMT -5
I’m also a general fan of vampire stories. I love at least something in just about every genre, but fantasy is my favorite. And romance is my number 1 hook. If it has fantasy / supernatural elements, and romance, I will watch it. So I have also seen all the Twilight movies, and I read the first book. But I am not a fan. For me, it falls short (by MILES) of good vampire fantasy. But Twilight is probably one of the reasons that I love Vampire Diaries so much. Because it is everything I had hoped that Twilight would be, and goes above and beyond. Because I’m also a history fan, one of my favorite aspects of vampire fantasy is the opportunity for centuries worth of storytelling. Because of their immortality, there is so much to work with. You can have mysteries, and relationships, and grudges, and friendships that date back throughout time. And you can see glimpses of so many different parts of history. And the character development can be so in-depth. Interview With a Vampire is a perfect example of this kind of storytelling, and one of my favorite movies. Vampires are also rightly categorized as Horror. They are dangerous, and mysterious. As Damon likes to remind everyone, they are predators. Creatures of the night, and nightmares, there’s a reason why the mythology has the light of day being one of mankind’s only defenses against them. And, originally, “god” or “faith”. These are the things that make the genre so ‘compelling’ (pun intended ): danger, mystery, dark vs. light, and the intelligence and experience that comes from centuries of living. And an added bonus for us romantics is the aspect of Epic Love. And Vampire Diaries has ALL of these things, and they do it well! That’s why I fell in love with the show. And why I don't like Twilight.
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Post by chrizakathemole on Apr 17, 2014 21:43:31 GMT -5
Personally I don't like Twilight but I love TVD (obviously or why be here lol?) to me it's the tone of both. They both deal with a lot of similar themes but I don't why to me Twlight feels very "emo" which is great for people who like that. TVD seems like the modern buffy (i loved buffy and can draw buffy comparisons for ages example look at stefan's face! he looks like and acts like Angel but with twlight hair lol)
So to me twilight is bad, I can not relate to it or click with it. Also clichéd but I HATED the sparkling. As a vampire fan that seemed like "Why?"
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Post by missmystic on Apr 18, 2014 8:20:23 GMT -5
Personally I don't like Twilight but I love TVD (obviously or why be here lol?) to me it's the tone of both. They both deal with a lot of similar themes but I don't why to me Twlight feels very "emo" which is great for people who like that. TVD seems like the modern buffy (i loved buffy and can draw buffy comparisons for ages example look at stefan's face! he looks like and acts like Angel but with twlight hair lol) So to me twilight is bad, I can not relate to it or click with it. Also clichéd but I HATED the sparkling. As a vampire fan that seemed like "Why?" I am also a HUGE Buffy fan!!! And yeah, many comparisons can easily be made between Buffy and TVD. The whole triangle issue is practically a mirror image of the Angel/Buffy/Spike triangle. But with TVD not having the "soullessness" issues, and the fact that the 2 men are brothers, sometimes I think makes the triangle even more gripping, in certain ways. And you can totally tell that Joss Whedon must have read Vampire Diaries, since they have some of the exact same rules in their mythology (not being allowed in homes without an invitation for example). But yeah, totally with you on the Twilight stuff. I just cannot take vampires who sparkle like diamonds in the sun seriously. I just can't. It turns a horror genre into a Disney movie. There is nothing sinister about sparkling vampires. And I like my vampires sinister.
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Post by beangelic1000 on Apr 18, 2014 10:09:42 GMT -5
I do not like the Twilight franchise and was not impressed by any of the films. In regards to Buffy and the many comparisions to be drawn from the show and TVD, I believe it is the other way around and it is not TVD who has borrowed from Buffy, but the creators of Buffy who have borrowed the concepts from the Vampire Diaries books, which have been around for a long time. The first TVD books came out from 1991-1992, the Buffy film was released in 1992 and apart from Buffy and Spike had nothing in common with the series that came out in 1997. in the film there was no triangle nor was there a character called Angel. But, L.J. Smiths books written well before either the film or the show featured heavily as its centre piece the love of two vampires for a human girl. Therefore, I agree with missmystic, that Joss Whedon must have drawn his inspiration from the Vampire Diaries books.
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Post by missmystic on Apr 18, 2014 10:39:21 GMT -5
Ok, so now that I know I won't be pissing EVERYONE off, I have a couple things I want to say about Twilight vs. Vampire Diaries. I have friends who are Twilight fans, but who refuse to watch TVD because they think it looks stupid .... which infuriates me to no end! Twilight is one thing that I can kind of go off the rails about, out of frustration. So I will try to keep it calm, but here are some of my feelings as to why Vampire Diaries is so much better than Twilight:
1. Real Vampires As I already said, I simply cannot take vampires who sparkle like diamonds in the sun seriously. Aside from it making a horror genre into something practically cutesy, it’s also not a believable scenario for why they have to live in a “rainy state”. If you saw someone walking down the street sparkling, would you go, “oh my god that guy’s a vampire!”? No. You’d think they were wearing glitter … crisis over. And while the idea of vampires with special powers is not bad, and definitely has its merits, I personally prefer the traditional Dracula style “gifts” of compulsion (and occasionally shape change). Its more sinister, and like I said, I like my vampires sinister.
2. Backstory There is so much wonderful backstory in TVD. New things are uncovered and told all the time. And it brings so many rich layers to the relationships. But 4 long books and 5 long movies in the Twilight series, and many different vampires, with so many opportunities for history and mystery, and they basically don’t have any at all! There are a few moments here and there that tell maybe 5 minutes worth of story from the past, that doesn’t even really have much bearing on the character development or the plot. It has a little bearing, I won’t say no bearing. But not nearly enough for me. A wasted opportunity.
3. Plot So much happens in TVD that by the end of each season I can hardly believe where the story started and how much has happened. There are twists after twists after twists. Twilight has very little plot, if you break it down. Throughout the 4 books / 5 movies worth of story, most of the actual plot doesn’t take place until the last book/movie. With the first one that’s no big deal, because it’s the intro. You’re meeting the players and given the set up. But then the next 2 books/movies pretty much nothing else really happens. One pissed off vampire is trying to kill Bella, and everyone has to protect her, and that’s really all that happens. There’s character stuff, yes, but story wise I could sum up the action in a couple sentences at most. In other genres this wouldn’t bother me at all, sometimes I really love solely character driven stories. But in a vampire genre, that’s not what I’m looking for.
4. Romance Vampire Diaries and Twilight have one very specific thing in common, at the core they are romances about a teenage girl who falls for a vampire. But with Twilight, for me, the romance was not believable. It makes perfect sense for a teenage girl to fall hopelessly in love with a mysterious and beautiful stranger. Absolutely it does, that is totally believable. And it’s also believable for her to feel like their romance is a matter of life and death, because everything is incredibly intense and dramatic when you’re that age. It is, however, much less believable for a 100 year old man to fall just as hard for a teenage girl. The concept is kind of ridiculous in its basic form. It would take a lot to turn the head of an immortal man, who has lived through wars, and death, and struggle, and lost loved ones, and probably numerous relationships and heartbreak (although not Edward, since he’s a 100 year old virgin … which, I'm sorry, is absolutely ridiculous and would never EVER happen). With Vampire Diaries this concept is made believable because the teenage girl in question has something special to offer. Stefan and Damon are initially drawn to Elena for a very good reason: Katherine. But they stay because they learn that she herself is a remarkable person. And this leads me to my final point:
5. Female Lead Elena is a normal teenage girl in many ways, of course. And she makes plenty of mistakes, just like the rest of us. But she is also much more than that. She is fiercely loyal, and incredibly compassionate, and kind, and generous. She is brave, and intelligent, and strong. She is put through the ringer, with one test after another (how many parental figures did she lose by the time she was 18? 5 I think?), and yet remains hopeful, and courageous, and she believes in herself. She has no end of love to give to the people around her, and she would not hesitate to give her life for any of theirs. These things are admirable, and rare, especially in someone so young. And that is what makes it believable that all these people are willing to fight to the death to protect her, and why people who have been alive for hundreds of years can still be affected by her, and fall in love with her.
In Twilight, like 4 different characters fall madly in love with Bella, and everyone is bending over backwards to sacrifice themselves for her, but I honestly have absolutely no idea why. For one thing, she is antisocial and unfriendly. She spends the entire first book/movie avoiding talking to people as much as possible, and being unresponsive to just about everyone’s attempts to befriend her or include her. She acts like an outcast loner type who has had a sad or difficult life and who has no friends, except she hasn’t had a sad OR difficult life at all, and she would have plenty of friends if she wanted any of them. So her loner persona makes no sense at all. She is described as average or even plain in the looks department (and Kristen Stewart is pretty, in my opinion, but no great beauty by any means, especially compared to Nina), so it can’t be her heart stopping beauty that has everyone falling all over themselves like Helen of Troy. She has no self-confidence (and ask any man, and they will tell you that’s a turn off). She barely talks, and when she does she really doesn’t say anything very interesting. In fact she often stumbles over her words as badly as she stumbles over her own feet. And she’s really not very bright. Someone tells you they are a deadly predator that can kill you in the blink of an eye, and your response is to basically get turned on? That’s Darwinism right there. Elena freaked out when she found out Stefan was a vampire, and didn’t want him anywhere near her. Survival of the fittest. And Bella spends the entire second book/movie basically telling the world that she can’t live without a man. That her life is worth nothing without Edward. So pretty much destroying a century’s worth of feminism in a single bound. She doesn’t even care about how much she terrifies and hurts her father or the people around her with her suicidal threats and refusal to take care of herself, all because Edward dumped her. She is almost the worst female role model in literature ever. She’s telling generations of girls that life isn’t worth living without a guy to love you. And also that getting married and having a baby at 18 is a really good idea. Everything else in Twilight that bothers me I could get over easily, but I just can’t get past Bella’s lack of self-worth, general uselessness, and bad example for women everywhere.
So for me, Vampire Diaries wins, hands down!
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