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Post by nhoa on Oct 29, 2014 7:08:50 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to try and be a Bamon shipper here even though I wouldn't exactly qualify myself as one.
Firstly, and I think this is vital to understand this, Bamon is about its potential. The way the show has been built, there's no Bamon. However, that doesn't mean that we can't see a potential in the characters to be great together if the show had explored different options.
To me, the most important point is the ability to understand each other. From my point of view, Damon and Bonnie are very similar deep down. They both do the dirty work most of the time and barely get thanked for it. There are the rocks the rest of characters build themselves on but, at the end of the day, they are themselves pretty lonely if you ask me. I believe Bonnie possesses a level of maturity well above Elena's and that helps when you're dealing with an old vampire. In short, I think they could reach a level of understanding that goes deeper than what they could reach with other characters. That makes the perfect base for a relationship. The love hate relationship has the potential to brink the necessary sexual sparkle. Whether the show wants to explore it or not, it's another matter.
As for the show… I do think Bamon would be extremely useful although I think it should have been brought into play more sooner, when it made more sense. Damon having another love interest -not sex, not a random girl but a love interest- would be faire and interesting. Too many times has Elena taken Damon's love for granted and that's disturbing. Plus, another love interest would have given Damon the opportunity to explore more of himself. I do believe it would have made the show richer and even Delena too. i know that many think Delena is based on the absoluteness of Damon's love for her but I think things are more complex than that and Bamon could have made everything pretty complex.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 29, 2014 8:04:10 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to try and be a Bamon shipper here even though I wouldn't exactly qualify myself as one. Firstly, and I think this is vital to understand this, Bamon is about its potential. The way the show has been built, there's no Bamon. However, that doesn't mean that we can't see a potential in the characters to be great together if the show had explored different options. To me, the most important point is the ability to understand each other. From my point of view, Damon and Bonnie are very similar deep down. They both do the dirty work most of the time and barely get thanked for it. There are the rocks the rest of characters build themselves on but, at the end of the day, they are themselves pretty lonely if you ask me. I believe Bonnie possesses a level of maturity well above Elena's and that helps when you're dealing with an old vampire. In short, I think they could reach a level of understanding that goes deeper than what they could reach with other characters. That makes the perfect base for a relationship. The love hate relationship has the potential to brink the necessary sexual sparkle. Whether the show wants to explore it or not, it's another matter. As for the show… I do think Bamon would be extremely useful although I think it should have been brought into play more sooner, when it made more sense. Damon having another love interest -not sex, not a random girl but a love interest- would be faire and interesting. Too many times has Elena taken Damon's love for granted and that's disturbing. Plus, another love interest would have given Damon the opportunity to explore more of himself. I do believe it would have made the show richer and even Delena too. i know that many think Delena is based on the absoluteness of Damon's love for her but I think things are more complex than that and Bamon could have made everything pretty complex. Hmmm...that's interesting and I do see what you're saying but I think they should have done this before Delena ever got together if they were going to go there and it would still have complicated things a lot if Damon had been with Bonnie, maybe not to an impossible level as he had been with Caroline, too, but I always felt like Bonnie was Elena's BEST best friend. Had they done it before Delena though they might have found themselves with a for real love triangle that gave the show a run for it's money. Delena always overpowered Stelena to a ridiculous level with the fanbase. I honestly believe it is Ian/Damon that makes all the difference in the world when it comes to the intensity of the Delena relationship. Before Delena, I actually shipped him with Rose for that little while there! It wasn't until the episode where Rose died that I really saw the Delena potential and started to ship it. Up until then Elena annoyed me with her holier than thou attitude she had on toward Damon so much of the time. So had they thrown Bonnie into the mix at that point it might have been better, way better than trying to do it now, which in my opinion is too late. He is solidly in love with Elena now and Elena loves him (even if she doesn't remember it!) and when Damon loves, he loves hard and long. I don't see him falling out of love with Elena and into love with Bonnie at this point in the show. I could see the potential of Bonnie getting a bit of a crush on Damon from afar and giving herself away every now and then as an interesting twist to the story (and one that would shadow the books in my opinion) but an all out relationship would require Elena's death (DEAD dead) because Bonnie would always be second best if Delena ended any other way. I'm not even sure death would be enough. Bamons would have to dismiss the entire Delena relationship as insignificant in order for their ship to sail and Delena is definitely not insignificant when the two are declaring they see their love as FOREVER. |
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Post by missmystic on Oct 29, 2014 10:01:15 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to try and be a Bamon shipper here even though I wouldn't exactly qualify myself as one. Firstly, and I think this is vital to understand this, Bamon is about its potential. The way the show has been built, there's no Bamon. However, that doesn't mean that we can't see a potential in the characters to be great together if the show had explored different options. To me, the most important point is the ability to understand each other. From my point of view, Damon and Bonnie are very similar deep down. They both do the dirty work most of the time and barely get thanked for it. There are the rocks the rest of characters build themselves on but, at the end of the day, they are themselves pretty lonely if you ask me. I believe Bonnie possesses a level of maturity well above Elena's and that helps when you're dealing with an old vampire. In short, I think they could reach a level of understanding that goes deeper than what they could reach with other characters. That makes the perfect base for a relationship. The love hate relationship has the potential to brink the necessary sexual sparkle. Whether the show wants to explore it or not, it's another matter. As for the show… I do think Bamon would be extremely useful although I think it should have been brought into play more sooner, when it made more sense. Damon having another love interest -not sex, not a random girl but a love interest- would be faire and interesting. Too many times has Elena taken Damon's love for granted and that's disturbing. Plus, another love interest would have given Damon the opportunity to explore more of himself. I do believe it would have made the show richer and even Delena too. i know that many think Delena is based on the absoluteness of Damon's love for her but I think things are more complex than that and Bamon could have made everything pretty complex. Interesting, I definitely agree with a lot of that. And I agree with what Doppel said. Let's go back in time and pretend that they had done things differently for a minute. If, back in season 2 maybe, they had made Bonnie start crushing on Damon (similar to in the books), instead of hating him with the fire of a thousand suns, I think that would have changed everything. If they had shown Bonnie caring about Damon, trying to help Damon, maybe being hurt or even crying after seeing Damon act devotedly towards Elena ... they could have built a good romantic tangle. And Then maybe I would find myself hoping that Damon noticed Bonnie, wishing that Damon would be kind to her, or appreciate her, or something. And maybe it would be hard to decide which direction I really wanted his feelings to go. Because yes, they are both rocks for their people, and they are both underappreciated, and they both make a lot of sacrifices. If they had shown some kind of longing, on either side, from early on, things might have been very different. But the problem is, that's NOT what they did. There has never been even a single moment shown between the 2 of them that even hinted at the idea that one or the other might have romantic feelings. They chose to tell a story that had Damon fall in love with a woman he thought he couldn't have, and didn't deserve, and showed her slowly realizing that he was the one for her. Bonnie barely even interacted with Damon. And when she did it was to try and kill him, or punish him for something, or tell him what a monster he was, or give him brain aneurisms because he had pissed her off. She blamed him for her Gram's death, she blamed him for turning her mother into a vampire, she has always hated his guts basically. And not in a sparks flying, sexual tension kind of way. Just in a completely honest distrust and dislike. And aside from those moments of hatred, she hasn't really every interacted with Damon. In fact he's had more screen time with Matt and Jeremy than he's had with Bonnie, until now. Unless they actually want to go back in time and start the story over, having Bonnie like Damon instead of hating him, I can't see how the pairing makes any sense NOW, in the story now, as it is being told now. They have no romantic history to draw on. And Bonnie is Elena's BEST FRIEND, and Elena is in love with Damon. Even if Damon fell out of love with Elena all of a sudden for some reason (which is really implausible in my opinion, and would be really OOC for him), and even if you take out the chemistry aspect (because personally I really do not feel even the tiniest spark between them) Bonnie would be a horrible person if she started something with him now. What kind of best friend would do that? And Bonnie is a fiercely loyal person. It would be completely OOC for her to do that to Elena. It just doesn't make any sense. In a way I wish they had done it differently. It might have made a richer dynamic for character development. And maybe it would have made Elena appreciate Damon sooner. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 29, 2014 10:20:50 GMT -5
What she said...and I have to ask, "Why Bonnie?" Is it just because she's the only girl in the gang Damon hasn't had a thing with yet because she has always been the most unlikely possibility for the reasons Missmystic stated. Bonnie has hated Damon, really hated, wanted him dead, hated him and it's only recently that things have gotten more to a friendly place with them. So I am at a loss to really 'get' why people want this pairing, especially now. I guess if they had started hinting at it earlier it would have been a possibility. It feels too much like a bunch of teenagers with their Ken doll wanting him to kiss all the girls and completely ignoring all the dynamics of the characters and storyline. How am I wrong? I'm not talking about the Bamons who have been Bamons all along or the obviously Stelenas who just want Damon out of the way because those Stelenas are clearly a large part of the Bamon fandom, but this newest rash of suddenly Bamons. I mean if that's basically their reasoning then at least they should admit it because they are clearly ignoring the storyline by wanting Bamon now. If they are just bored and want something new to watch now, than let's hear it. I mean we are all here to be entertained but if that's their reasons why make up other reason that make no logical sense. I get that Delena has become somewhat boring. We all complain about that, but their story is definitely not over yet. We've barely even seen them together yet!
One of the last ditch efforts I see from Bamons is to say that it happened in the books. Well no, it didn't actually happen in the books! Bamon did not ever get together. Maybe in some future book of LJ Smith they could but that is only possible because Delena has not been together yet either, in LJs books. In the official books Delena is endgame. LJ's version hasn't gotten to the end yet so nobody knows how she would have finished them. Regardless of what LJ might decide to do, Alloy owns and finished the books and owns and will finish the TV series. What LJ is writing now is fanfiction which I think satisfies her need to finish writing the things she wanted and planned to write. Whether she ever actually plans to finish a parallel series is questionable. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 29, 2014 10:47:25 GMT -5
I'm going to assume that Bamon will not happen or that the most that might happen is a crush or flirtation because if the show took this right turn I will always blame Ian and Nina's split for it. There's no getting around it that it would be highly suspect if they break up Delena and go this way when that isn't what happened in the books they wrote. It would be such a deviation that I could only blame it on those two NOT wanting to kiss and make out anymore on the TV show. I already feel like they've compromised Delena in a lot of ways with all the 'keep away' they've played with them since their real life split so this would pretty much prove it to me. So for that reason, amongst many, I really hope it doesn't happen.
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Post by Charlotte on Oct 29, 2014 12:29:04 GMT -5
I'm going to assume that Bamon will not happen or that the most that might happen is a crush or flirtation because if the show took this right turn I will always blame Ian and Nina's split for it. There's no getting around it that it would be highly suspect if they break up Delena and go this way when that isn't what happened in the books they wrote. It would be such a deviation that I could only blame it on those two NOT wanting to kiss and make out anymore on the TV show. I already feel like they've compromised Delena in a lot of ways with all the 'keep away' they've played with them since their real life split so this would pretty much prove it to me. So for that reason, amongst many, I really hope it doesn't happen. This is my main concern for Bamon. Ian is pushing for it and I heard Kat unfriended a bunch of DEs, which could be done for a number of reasons (like the fandom is crazy), but I do wish Ian would stop with all the Bamon love. Bamon is not a romantic SL. It is a partnership of equals, it is an understanding and appreciation of what they do for others. It can even be a redemption SL (not that we need another one) but it is not romantic! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 18:01:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't say Ian is necessarily pushing for Bamon. It's still ultimately up to JP to decide what happens in the storyline. An example is that Ian has always talked about how Delena wouldn't happen in his interviews that it was a pipe dream or the family dog had a better chance with Elena than Damon. It never affected Delena's build up to a relationship. Another one is that it's always been a wish for Ian for Damon to go back to being his 'evil' self of season 1. That is something that hasn't happened. Same with any of the actors, many of them have their ideas on what they think will happen, Candace herself always spoke of Caroline only liking Stefan as a friend and didn't care for the Steroline romance yet that's what the writers are working towards now with these last few episodes.
On the Bamon front I agree with the notion of missmystic and Doppel. Why is Bamon being wanted now? Does it make sense for Damon to suddenly drop his love for Elena and move right on over to Bonnie? Delena didn't even get it that easy, it took the writers seasons to build them up to this point and they really still haven't been technically together where they're happy for more than one episode.
This would of course be a different story if Bamon was developed at the beginning. If the writers didn't just drop Bamon's relationship at the end of 2x06. One of the main reasons for the hate against Bamon is that there hasn't been any hints of the two feeling anything romantically for each other. The writers would have made it clear if Bonnie ever had any hint of feelings for each other, it shouldn't be something that was hidden/subtle/offscreen.
Bamon is having a lot of screen time now, but it helps that they really are the only two people they can talk to each other in this AU. I hope when they get back the writers continue to develop their friendship and not go back to going through periods of hardly any interactions with each other. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 29, 2014 18:49:49 GMT -5
I honestly don't particularly care if Damon and Bonnie goes back to not really interacted except in emergency situations because I am more convinced than ever that they really don't work that well together. I'm pretty bored with Damon being stuck over there with Bonnie at this point and just want him back in the real world.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 19:13:03 GMT -5
I honestly don't particularly care if Damon and Bonnie goes back to not really interacted except in emergency situations because I am more convinced than ever that they really don't work that well together. I'm pretty bored with Damon being stuck over there with Bonnie at this point and just want him back in the real world. Hah though it really would be great if the writers kept them consistent. Even if they may not get as many scenes together when they come back, I don't want to see Bonnie going back to making comments like 'Ew' in regards to Damon when Elena talks about him. That would just make no sense considering the time they had to spend together. At this point in the game no one should be 'surprised' or judgmental when it comes to Elena loving Damon anymore. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 29, 2014 21:26:16 GMT -5
I honestly don't particularly care if Damon and Bonnie goes back to not really interacted except in emergency situations because I am more convinced than ever that they really don't work that well together. I'm pretty bored with Damon being stuck over there with Bonnie at this point and just want him back in the real world. Hah though it really would be great if the writers kept them consistent. Even if they may not get as many scenes together when they come back, I don't want to see Bonnie going back to making comments like 'Ew' in regards to Damon when Elena talks about him. That would just make no sense considering the time they had to spend together. At this point in the game no one should be 'surprised' or judgmental when it comes to Elena loving Damon anymore. Yup and that is probably the end result of this, that Bonnie has a new view of Damon. |
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Post by nhoa on Oct 30, 2014 17:30:10 GMT -5
I am not saying Bamon would make sense as a romantic couple NOW. I personally think that Bamon shippers come from the book and they project into the show what they've read on the books, not really caring if it makes much sense or not with the dynamics settled in the show. I still think the show would have been way richer if they had made Damon about something more than Elena. Don't get me wrong: Damon is a very complex character but sometimes it's too much about Elena.
Moreover, I don't think Bamon will ever happen romantically now - not even with Ian's wish to work with Kat instead of Nina (Yes, I know it happened in OTH but that was a totally different problem). but this is a good chance for Bonnie to change her view of Damon which brings me to my next point.
Bonnie's change of heart about Damon is extremely valuable because it is built on action. If Bonnie changes her mind about Damon, it's because Damon has changed and has shown so. A person who hated him now appreciates him and it's all because of his doing. That's amazing if you ask me. Bonnie is the proof of Damon's journey and what I like about her in the Bamon dynamic (whatever they are) is that she's fair to him. She was hard but she has changed when he has changed. I like that notion of evolution so different from the forever fixated image of "monster Damon" other characters entertain.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 30, 2014 17:37:18 GMT -5
I am not saying Bamon would make sense as a romantic couple NOW. I personally think that Bamon shippers come from the book and they project into the show what they've read on the books, not really caring if it makes much sense or not with the dynamics settled in the show. I still think the show would have been way richer if they had made Damon about something more than Elena. Don't get me wrong: Damon is a very complex character but sometimes it's too much about Elena. Moreover, I don't think Bamon will ever happen romantically now - not even with Ian's wish to work with Kat instead of Nina (Yes, I know it happened in OTH but that was a totally different problem). but this is a good chance for Bonnie to change her view of Damon which brings me to my next point. Bonnie's change of heart about Damon is extremely valuable because it is built on action. If Bonnie changes her mind about Damon, it's because Damon has changed and has shown so. A person who hated him now appreciates him and it's all because of his doing. That's amazing if you ask me. Bonnie is the proof of Damon's journey and what I like about her in the Bamon dynamic (whatever they are) is that she's fair to him. She was hard but she has changed when he has changed. I like that notion of evolution so different from the forever fixated image of "monster Damon" other characters entertain. Yes it would be nice if SOMEONE other than Elena noticed how much he has changed... |
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Post by missmystic on Oct 30, 2014 17:41:09 GMT -5
I am not saying Bamon would make sense as a romantic couple NOW. I personally think that Bamon shippers come from the book and they project into the show what they've read on the books, not really caring if it makes much sense or not with the dynamics settled in the show. I still think the show would have been way richer if they had made Damon about something more than Elena. Don't get me wrong: Damon is a very complex character but sometimes it's too much about Elena. Moreover, I don't think Bamon will ever happen romantically now - not even with Ian's wish to work with Kat instead of Nina (Yes, I know it happened in OTH but that was a totally different problem). but this is a good chance for Bonnie to change her view of Damon which brings me to my next point. Bonnie's change of heart about Damon is extremely valuable because it is built on action. If Bonnie changes her mind about Damon, it's because Damon has changed and has shown so. A person who hated him now appreciates him and it's all because of his doing. That's amazing if you ask me. Bonnie is the proof of Damon's journey and what I like about her in the Bamon dynamic (whatever they are) is that she's fair to him. She was hard but she has changed when he has changed. I like that notion of evolution so different from the forever fixated image of "monster Damon" other characters entertain. I love all of this! Well said! |
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