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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 14:02:38 GMT -5
We were talking about it in the anti boards and why we can't understand why anyone would ship Bamon and decided to post a debate so we could talk about the reasons pro and con to Bamon. If you ship Bamon, we'd love it if you'd tell us why? What is your reasoning for wanting this couple? What do you see in them? Hopefully we'll get some answers and if you don't ship Bamon, tell us why you don't. Why are you opposed to Bamon being together. Let's get the pros and cons here and talk about the reasoning behind it. Remember keep it friendly! I think it's always good to get 'the other side' without being offensive or being offended by what other people think. It makes for a better understanding of where other people are coming from.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 14:15:08 GMT -5
I guess I'll start with this...
CONS:
Damon is in love with Elena
Bonnie is in love with Jeremy
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 14:22:24 GMT -5
And this is how I see them, too...
Salvatore #1 @mysticgrbathrm · 1h1 hour ago
Bonnie and Damon are so adorable. Just like Ian and Kat. Big brother - Little sister kind of adorable.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 14:23:10 GMT -5
CONS:
Damon is Elena's boyfriend Bonnie is Elena's BEST friend |
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Post by missmystic on Oct 27, 2014 14:36:54 GMT -5
Bamon shippers, please share your thoughts. I would really love to have a respectful debate. No desire to bash or insult anyone's opinion. Just really want to have a conversation about each other's points of view.
Here are my major cons for the pairing,
Bonnie has always been a loyal to a fault kind of friend. And she is Elena's best friend. Her integrity is her most defining characteristic, in my opinion. So why would Elena's BEST FRIEND ever betray her that way? What kind of person would that make Bonnie? Elena is still completely in love with Damon. She is no where near to moving on or getting over him in any way. If Bonnie started something with Damon now, that would be the ultimate betrayal. Elena would hate her. Their friendship would be destroyed. I simply cannot picture Bonnie ever doing something like that. It would be completely OOC, in my opinion. And Damon, despite any other faults people might say he has, he has always been loyal to the people he cares about. It's something he has in common with Bonnie. He loved Katherine, unwaveringly, for almost 150 years! He would not cheat on Elena, that's not the kind of person he is.
In my opinion, Elena would have to be long dead for Bamon to ever really become romantic. I just don't see any other reasonable way that story could happen, without totally changing the character of both Bonnie and Damon.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 16:59:38 GMT -5
Right, when you look at their characters it seems impossible that either one of them would do something like that, at least at this point in time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 19:48:13 GMT -5
One thing I noticed with the hopes of Bamon from the CW board in early season 2 and whatnot, most of them figured that Bamon would happen in later seasons (at the time season 4 or 5) since it was expected that the writers would expand on Bamon's relationship after the tag team of Mason. But then the writers sort of just dropped it along the way.
Most of the 'pros' for this ship can only apply to the beginning of the season. Sort of where Delena was still in the Jeremy neck snap incident of season and Elena proclaimed that she hated Damon. I could see people shipping Bamon then because with Elena's quote from 2x01 with it always being Stefan and then in 2x03 with the you have lost me forever line. After that this was followed up by Bamon and them dealing with Mason around 2x06.
Those were the times in early show where most of the SE's felt like Stelena was the true love story (always using the quotes said by JP/KW from early times) to back this up and most of them felt that Delena would never happen despite the triangle. To them Stelena being in love with Damon loving Elena on the side was the triangle so it never really needed to go further than that.
And well I didn't think I'd need this much of a build up to set up the point I was trying to get across lol. But basically what I was trying to get at was in those earlier times, some fans liked/wanted the idea of Bamon because then Damon would be 'first' in the relationship and not second place etc. Since Elena's 'It will always be Stefan' was taking to be set in stone by some fans.
Some might still try to justify Bamon with that excuse. Except now he's the thing, the writers never did expand more on Bamon after those early eps with Mason in season 2. And now SE is over and Elena has chosen Damon and has not wavered in her choice. Elena loves Damon and feels and even greater love than she did for Stefan. Likewise since that time, Bonnie has formed a strong bond of love with Jeremy.
These characters have changed, the relationships with others have changed. Old excuses like Damon being first if he's with Bonnie doesn't hold up anymore and there's plenty of 'old excuses' to were used to justify Bamon just as dated as that.
I'm not sure how a fan of Bamon could want their couple to just get thrown together like this without any coherent build up or not take in consideration any of the relationships that these characters have formed with others or blatantly ignore key values of said characters that would make them outright OOC.
With Damon and Katherine, the writers didn't have Damon slam the door on Kat in 2x07 and then suddenly 'Ta da!' now he's in a relationship with Elena. Things were built up in a timely matter to get to that point. And at that time most people were claiming that Damon only loves Elena for Kat and that Elena would be some sort of rebound for him. How would this be any different if Damon were to suddenly get with Bonnie now?
It seems like most Bamon's don't care that Bonnie getting with Damon would hurt Elena or that it's incredibly OOC for Damon to move on so suddenly to another girl or even that these two characters actually have love relationships with characters that they never broke up with willingly. As long as Bamon gets together it's like nothing else matters. That's one of my main problems with this ship.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 20:05:23 GMT -5
Maybe they think circumstances will change and then Bamon will be possible, but I'm even seeing people talk about the possibility that something happened between them 'off screen' while they were in this place and there is zero chance of that from what I can see. It's one thing to be able to put two and two together and see something there, like some people see chemistry with Bamon (I don't!) but it's entirely something else to make up something in your imagination because you want it. Thinking Damon and Bonnie fooled around in this place is just so ooc for them both and there is no indication at all that could have happened. If Bamon were to happen it would have to be over time or else it would amount to a cheap trick/supernatural hijinx/road block for Delena in the end and I'm sure that's not what they want, not if they are serious about this pairing.
But I have yet to hear any real reason for anyone to ship Bamon. The most I've heard is that they think they have chemistry and Bonnie won't let Damon get away with anything....ummm...what is Bonnie gonna do, witch whammy him all day long to keep him in line? Sorry, not even remotely interested in seeing that! If they think Damon is p-whipped now, how would he look when every time he turns around Bonnie is giving him a headache...lol Bonnie isn't going to be any more capable of controlling Damon than anyone else is. Damon is Damon...he's got his own way of doing things, he's stubborn and he isn't about to change. He's said that about a hundred times. You either have to take him the way he is or leave him because you can't change him. Not even Bonnie can and anyone that thinks they can or they should is sadly mistaken. This was one area I disagreed with Elena on strongly and I would disagree with Bonnie if she thought she could do it as well.
So that's my argument AGAINST the idea that Bonnie is better for Damon because she won't put up with his stuff... |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 27, 2014 20:39:00 GMT -5
I had to go looking for reasons people ship Bamon and I see nothing new yet...hmmm
But here's some:
bipolar-barbie.tumblr.com/post/32019975264/why-i-ship-bamon
These are just SOME of the reasons I ship Bamon.
1) I believe a love/hate relationship would have a powerful impact on the audience. Let’s face it, that’s just good storytelling. (Ummmm....like Delena started as???)
2) Bonnie brings out good qualities in Damon. (Ummmm.....like Elena does???)
3) They’re hilarious together & fun to watch. (Hmmm....that's subjective I guess. Damon is ALWAYS funny and fun to watch no matter who he is interacting with. He's equally funny to watch interact with Caroline, aka vampire Barbie. I don't see his interactions with Bonnie as any more entertaining in particular.)
4) A witch & vampire relationship would be hot. (Why?)
5) Ian & Kat have great chemistry. (Subjective...I personally don't think they have great chemistry.)
6) The show is different from the books BUT Bamon had too much of an impact in the books NOT to be included in the show. SE & DE happened in the books as well as the show so damn, can’t we get Bamon too? (Bamon did not have a romantic relationship in the books so...what exactly would have to happen to make it the same in the TV show?)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 21:20:22 GMT -5
Some people seem to want to put Bamon on the same pedestal as Delena/Stelena. That's the core triangle, it was always meant to be the main focus for romance and Delena was always going to happen eventually despite some people thinking otherwise for some reason.
The 'Bonnie brings out good qualities in Damon' argument and the 'love/hate' arguments are common amongst reasons that people ship Bamon. Though I like to point out the good traits one, this person in particular didn't really list any examples at all. It's really a bare bones reason that simply sounds good on paper. What 'good traits' has Bonnie brought out in Damon? If there was a specific moment, list it. It gives more credibility to the pairing, but as it stands, most reasons for shipping Bamon really seem to just grasp at the barest of straws.
Other reasons are things that already exist in Delena but some fans just don't want to acknowledge any of it. That seems to be another thing with Bamon, wanting to act like Delena is near non existent when it comes to Damon. They don't want to even acknowledge Damon's love for Elena or write up rants about how Damon never really cared for Elena in a certain specific moment so that means his love for her was weak or something.
Delena's had to acknowledge Stelena and Elena's love for Stefan. For the longest we've been saying that she loves Stefan but what she feels for Damon is more and at the time of course DE's were just considered in denial or something until the show itself finally came out and canonically proved what DE's have been saying all along.
I'd really love to read a viewpoint from a Bamon fan that actually talks about the qualities of the couple itself and not some huge anti Elena/Delena rant that's disguising itself as pro Bamon.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 28, 2014 7:07:09 GMT -5
Some people seem to want to put Bamon on the same pedestal as Delena/Stelena. That's the core triangle, it was always meant to be the main focus for romance and Delena was always going to happen eventually despite some people thinking otherwise for some reason.
The 'Bonnie brings out good qualities in Damon' argument and the 'love/hate' arguments are common amongst reasons that people ship Bamon. Though I like to point out the good traits one, this person in particular didn't really list any examples at all. It's really a bare bones reason that simply sounds good on paper. What 'good traits' has Bonnie brought out in Damon? If there was a specific moment, list it. It gives more credibility to the pairing, but as it stands, most reasons for shipping Bamon really seem to just grasp at the barest of straws.
Other reasons are things that already exist in Delena but some fans just don't want to acknowledge any of it. That seems to be another thing with Bamon, wanting to act like Delena is near non existent when it comes to Damon. They don't want to even acknowledge Damon's love for Elena or write up rants about how Damon never really cared for Elena in a certain specific moment so that means his love for her was weak or something.
Delena's had to acknowledge Stelena and Elena's love for Stefan. For the longest we've been saying that she loves Stefan but what she feels for Damon is more and at the time of course DE's were just considered in denial or something until the show itself finally came out and canonically proved what DE's have been saying all along.
I'd really love to read a viewpoint from a Bamon fan that actually talks about the qualities of the couple itself and not some huge anti Elena/Delena rant that's disguising itself as pro Bamon.
I don't think they do have an argument. I have yet to find one on the internet when I go looking for it! Most of their arguments are anti-Delena. They say Damon doesn't really love Elena...ah...if that's not love than I don't know what is! I really don't see Damon being any more 'fond' of Bonnie then any of the rest of the gang. The interesting thing about Damon is that he tries so hard not to let on that he really is invested in all these people. He wants them to think they don't matter to him but they really do, a whole lot, and that goes for ALL of the MF gang, not just Bonnie specifically. You could just as easily say he's got a thing for Matt or Caroline or even Tyler whom he has saved despite saying he didn't care less about any one of them...it's all the same the way I see it, when it comes to Damon. He would do the same for any of them. They do matter to him. They are his MF family even if he would never ever say it. They gave him people to care about and a purpose after a long life of having none and while he hangs on the fringe of their little gang and never really gets too close he's still a part of something and he needs that. That's the deal with Damon. I think it was time for Bonnie to thaw toward him. Damon's redemption story needed that. All of them will eventually realize how much he matters to them. We saw it with the way Stefan talked about how much he needed Damon and Elena, too and how integral he is to their lives. That's kind of a big deal in Damon's story since he's been the outcast for a good portion of the series. That's really what I see this Bamon story being about. I'd be surprised if I'm wrong and some romantic thing happens there. I just don't see it even being in the cards. It doesn't fit into the storyline in any way, but Bonnie becoming a Damon fan does fit. Having her change how she feels about Damon, does fit, and we are seeing that when she said there was hope for him. |
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Post by missmystic on Oct 28, 2014 9:38:51 GMT -5
One thing I have heard as a pro Bamon argument is the idea that a new relationship for the core characters would be a good thing. Some people are tired of the drama of Delena and they want the romance to head in a new and fresh direction. Trying to look at it objectively, I can understand that argument to a point. The story is a long way away from the Delena that I first fell in love with. The writing has taken too many detours, and there is definitely a sense of dragging things out unnecessarily. And if you love Damon, but you were tired of the way they have been writing Delena, I can see where you might hope that a fresh start with someone new would bring back the romance for you. And as I have mentioned in a different thread, the concept of a love/hate romance is a classic one. And in many other circumstances has wonderful success.
If Elena died, and the show kept going, and they progressed the Bamon relationship with the right amount of realism attached to their character development, the possibility of turning that storyline into a captivating romance would be interesting to watch. And if they wrote it right, I would like to think I would be able to enjoy it.
The problems I have with it are as I have stated. First, that as things stand in the story right now, I do not believe it is in either Bonnie or Damon's character to start anything together. It would be a HUGE betrayal of Elena, and they both love her way to much to ever treat her that way. And I don't understand why anyone would WANT them to do that to her. But the other reason is, I guess, a matter of opinion, and that is the chemistry.
I swear to god, in a completely nonbiased opinion, I personally do not feel any chemistry at all between Kat/Bonnie and Ian/Damon. Bamon fans disagree, so I concede that it must be a matter of opinion. But to me, the two of them feel like brother and sister. I don't get that sexual tension feeling with them at all. I don't feel any heat when they look at each other, or stand close together. I don't notice one of them staring too long, or breathing too hard, or stealing glances. Maybe that's the way they have been written, and if they were written differently maybe I would be able to feel it. But so far I haven't at all.
I am not so stuck on Delena that I would refuse to see the merit in a change of heart. If I could feel chemistry between Bonnie and Damon, I might feel completely differently about this. But so far I don't feel a thing. If you do a side by side comparison to scenes of DE from seasons 1 and 2, and scenes of Bonnie and Damon now ... I just don't understand how anyone could NOT see the difference. There is SO much chemistry between DE. And it feels nothing like that at all between Damon and Bonnie. I just don't see it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 9:40:50 GMT -5
Some people seem to want to put Bamon on the same pedestal as Delena/Stelena. That's the core triangle, it was always meant to be the main focus for romance and Delena was always going to happen eventually despite some people thinking otherwise for some reason.
The 'Bonnie brings out good qualities in Damon' argument and the 'love/hate' arguments are common amongst reasons that people ship Bamon. Though I like to point out the good traits one, this person in particular didn't really list any examples at all. It's really a bare bones reason that simply sounds good on paper. What 'good traits' has Bonnie brought out in Damon? If there was a specific moment, list it. It gives more credibility to the pairing, but as it stands, most reasons for shipping Bamon really seem to just grasp at the barest of straws.
Other reasons are things that already exist in Delena but some fans just don't want to acknowledge any of it. That seems to be another thing with Bamon, wanting to act like Delena is near non existent when it comes to Damon. They don't want to even acknowledge Damon's love for Elena or write up rants about how Damon never really cared for Elena in a certain specific moment so that means his love for her was weak or something.
Delena's had to acknowledge Stelena and Elena's love for Stefan. For the longest we've been saying that she loves Stefan but what she feels for Damon is more and at the time of course DE's were just considered in denial or something until the show itself finally came out and canonically proved what DE's have been saying all along.
I'd really love to read a viewpoint from a Bamon fan that actually talks about the qualities of the couple itself and not some huge anti Elena/Delena rant that's disguising itself as pro Bamon.
I don't think they do have an argument. I have yet to find one on the internet when I go looking for it! Most of their arguments are anti-Delena. They say Damon doesn't really love Elena...ah...if that's not love than I don't know what is! I really don't see Damon being any more 'fond' of Bonnie then any of the rest of the gang. The interesting thing about Damon is that he tries so hard not to let on that he really is invested in all these people. He wants them to think they don't matter to him but they really do, a whole lot, and that goes for ALL of the MF gang, not just Bonnie specifically. You could just as easily say he's got a thing for Matt or Caroline or even Tyler whom he has saved despite saying he didn't care less about any one of them...it's all the same the way I see it, when it comes to Damon. He would do the same for any of them. They do matter to him. They are his MF family even if he would never ever say it. They gave him people to care about and a purpose after a long life of having none and while he hangs on the fringe of their little gang and never really gets too close he's still a part of something and he needs that. That's the deal with Damon. I think it was time for Bonnie to thaw toward him. Damon's redemption story needed that. All of them will eventually realize how much he matters to them. We saw it with the way Stefan talked about how much he needed Damon and Elena, too and how integral he is to their lives. That's kind of a big deal in Damon's story since he's been the outcast for a good portion of the series. That's really what I see this Bamon story being about. I'd be surprised if I'm wrong and some romantic thing happens there. I just don't see it even being in the cards. It doesn't fit into the storyline in any way, but Bonnie becoming a Damon fan does fit. Having her change how she feels about Damon, does fit, and we are seeing that when she said there was hope for him. Yeah most of the arguments from the Bamon I've come across (whether they cross tag in the Delena tag or I'm just in a Steroline/Beremy or any character tag etc.) it's as you stated, it's mostly anti Delena arguments and why Delena are horrible for each other rather than actually talking about Bamon by itself as a couple. It's like Bamon can't be made to look good without tearing down Delena in the process to make Bamon seem like it's better.
With most of the Bamon arguments being anti Delena rants, there's no way that they'd acknowledge Damon's love for Elena in a good light. To them it's just obsession or being whipped or a lapdog. Acknowledging any good aspects of Delena will make Bamon a moot point. I know there's likely some good arguments for Bamon out there that actually talks about Bamon itself, but again it's really a bit intimidating to go out there to look when you're a fan of a rival pairing because hate will be inevitable.
I also agree with what you're saying about Bonnie. Her speech about noticing the differences between Damon and Kai made it obvious that Bonnie still had some 'issues' with Damon. It wasn't exactly addressed right at the start of the AU, but now we know that Bonnie was still up in the air about Damon. Everyone else has come around to Damon in Mystic Falls. Caroline and Stefan being the most surprising as they're the ones who's been on an anti Damon front the longest. Bonnie will now come back and not be the odd one out in the gang in regards to Damon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 10:00:22 GMT -5
One thing I have heard as a pro Bamon argument is the idea that a new relationship for the core characters would be a good thing. Some people are tired of the drama of Delena and they want the romance to head in a new and fresh direction. Trying to look at it objectively, I can understand that argument to a point. The story is a long way away from the Delena that I first fell in love with. The writing has taken too many detours, and there is definitely a sense of dragging things out unnecessarily. And if you love Damon, but you were tired of the way they have been writing Delena, I can see where you might hope that a fresh start with someone new would bring back the romance for you. And as I have mentioned in a different thread, the concept of a love/hate romance is a classic one. And in many other circumstances has wonderful success. If Elena died, and the show kept going, and they progressed the Bamon relationship with the right amount of realism attached to their character development, the possibility of turning that storyline into a captivating romance would be interesting to watch. And if they wrote it right, I would like to think I would be able to enjoy it. The problems I have with it are as I have stated. First, that as things stand in the story right now, I do not believe it is in either Bonnie or Damon's character to start anything together. It would be a HUGE betrayal of Elena, and they both love her way to much to ever treat her that way. And I don't understand why anyone would WANT them to do that to her. But the other reason is, I guess, a matter of opinion, and that is the chemistry. I swear to god, in a completely nonbiased opinion, I personally do not feel any chemistry at all between Kat/Bonnie and Ian/Damon. Bamon fans disagree, so I concede that it must be a matter of opinion. But to me, the two of them feel like brother and sister. I don't get that sexual tension feeling with them at all. I don't feel any heat when they look at each other, or stand close together. I don't notice one of them staring too long, or breathing too hard, or stealing glances. Maybe that's the way they have been written, and if they were written differently maybe I would be able to feel it. But so far I haven't at all. I am not so stuck on Delena that I would refuse to see the merit in a change of heart. If I could feel chemistry between Bonnie and Damon, I might feel completely differently about this. But so far I don't feel a thing. If you do a side by side comparison to scenes of DE from seasons 1 and 2, and scenes of Bonnie and Damon now ... I just don't understand how anyone could NOT see the difference. There is SO much chemistry between DE. And it feels nothing like that at all between Damon and Bonnie. I just don't see it. The thing with that pro argument, is that while I can understand the view, just sort of wanting a fresh take at relationships especially when you feel like things are getting stale. I know that's how I felt back with SE, everything felt same old same old yet when Elena interacted with Damon, we saw new sides to Elena, something more fun and engaging to watch than her relationship with Stefan. Of course since Delena was the other half of the triangle, it wasn't more as a wish for the two to be together, more like 'when' the writers will focus on that point.
However what I don't agree with whenever I see Bamon bring up that argument is that why do they think that Damon and Bonnie getting together will suddenly mean every ounce of drama in the show will be dropped? Or why that Bamon will get together so easily when it's never been easy for any relationship in this show. Even for a relationship like Forwood, Tyler and Caroline have no connections to the triangle, no estranged ex relationships with any of the core characters (like Matt having hung over feelings for Elena and Caroline feeling inferior). There was really no one in the way of Forwood (Klaus withstanding of course but I'm speaking in earlier season terms). No Elena going after Tyler or randomness like Damon/Stefan being suddenly into Caroline after getting with Tyler.
Yet the writers still managed to have some sort of drama that would constantly break them up. There were things outside of the relationship like family issues or Tyler's allegiance to his werewolf pack that caused rifts in the relationships.
If Damon and Bonnie get together, there's still Elena, there's still Jeremy. These external relationships will not just disappear. Bamon won't be without it's fair share of drama. Caroline is guaranteed to judge Bonnie, Damon will still be Damon. He'll have his way of doing things that no one's going to change. He's not going to go through some transformation and is suddenly a whole different character just because he's with Bonnie. JP is the queen of angst and torment, she never ever lets a couple on this show just be. Heck she doesn't let these characters just be, everyone on this show has gone through their fair share of loss and grief almost in the multiples now (Alaric's speech? Whew!) I believe these same people who are tired of the 'Delena drama' will soon be tired of the 'Bamon drama' that will be sure to follow the relationship.
Give or take whether your a fan of said pairing of course. Though most people make it seem like Delena itself is the cause for low ratings or why the show is repetitive/boring. That has nothing to do with Delena. That has to do with JP really not wanting things to be easy and letting Delena actually be a happy couple. Even us fans of Delena are a bit tired of the constant roadblocks for Delena not being together despite knowing that Delena is obviously the main love story being told.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 28, 2014 11:23:55 GMT -5
I think it's kind of ridiculous that people just want Damon to hop from girl to girl because they are 'bored' with the show currently, to be honest. It shows how short sighted they are if they don't care about the continuity of the show and the integrity of the characters at all because Damon and Bonnie both would be completely ooc if they just started something up right now. If it was something the writers wanted long term then it would not happen overnight. I mean look how long it took Delena to happen...like forever! If the writers were to take Bamon seriously it would be a long slow journey because they really would have a long long way to go and factors would have to change a lot before it could ever happen and be believable, natural and not completely ooc.
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