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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 14, 2015 12:13:01 GMT -5
Because I'm bored and felt like talking about something that bothers me I thought I'd make this debate. I have read several times posts by people who claim they stopped shipping Delena because of statements Damon made about the relationship. Specifically: "If I'm miserable I want her to be miserable too." & also "“It's not that I don't want Elena to be happy, I just want her to be happy with me." For those people that apparently made them think Damon was selfish and only cared about himself. Now I don't know if these are other shippers in disguise claiming this pushed them out of the Delena fandom or what cause I've seen this same argument being thrown around by other ships as well but I wanted to comment on this.
What would you say if the person that you loved erased their memories? How would you feel? How would you feel about them forgetting you? I think people are looking at it all wrong because I am 100% sure that if this situation happened to 99% of the people they would feel exactly the way Damon felt. The situation was not that Elena decided to leave Damon for 'reasons.' She loved him with all her heart. She decided to compel that love away, not because she stopped loving him, but because he died. So her decision was not because she wanted it, it was because she felt she couldn't function without him. That makes the entire thing different than say if a person breaks up with you and you want them to be as miserable as you are out of a vindictive desire to see them hurting. What Damon is expressing is perfectly normal if you ask me! He is in pain. He is missing his soulmate but he still loves her with all his heart. He doesn't want her to be in pain. He wants her with him. He wants their experiences to be mutual. We know from prior experience that Damon would and has sacrificed his own happiness for her happiness so he isn't saying he wants her to be miserable or unhappy. The idea is that whatever she is feeling he wants her to be feeling it with him. He has been in an intimate relationship with her and he wants that again more than anything. They are soulmates, lovers, best friends and suddenly she is ripped away from him because she chose to forget that love. Because she chose to forget that love she is making decisions without that information and it hurts him because he does remember and he does still love her and he wants to be with her with all of his heart and the only thing preventing that is her choice to compel her love away. He wants to share in all things with her again, happiness and misery. To me that is what he was saying, in essence and it wasn't a selfish statement. It was a statement of a man in pain who is missing his soulmate and the intimacy that they shared and wants that again with all his heart, the good feelings and the bad feelings as long as they are feeling them together. He wants her to miss him as much as he misses her and to remember why she would feel those feelings.
I hope I'm making sense, but I just think you can't look at those statements so superficially, but you have to look at it from where he is standing and what he is feeling and what he has lost as to why he feels that way and what he means by it and it definitely does not mean he wishes ill will toward Elena in any way or doesn't care how she feels. |
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Post by missmystic on Jan 14, 2015 12:18:24 GMT -5
100% agree with you!
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Post by Somerhaldered on Jan 14, 2015 14:08:31 GMT -5
I completely agree. But I did not even see those statements as being ill towards Elena and I didn't take them for face value. I don't think they were meant that way at all. Of course he doesn't literally want her to be miserable, he was simply stating that he is miserable without her and if she had her memories, she would be miserable without him too. He probably just wishes she could understand the pain that he is in. She doesn't have to deal with the pain anymore (which is why she did it in the first place) but he does. He never said he didn't want her to be happy at all - he wants her to be happy with him, which by the way is what Elena would want IF SHE STILL HAD HER MEMORIES! He wants her memories back so they can share them together and be happy together.
It is a really tough spot to be in for Damon because he can't (and doesn't want to) give up on their love because he knows how much she loved him. He just wants her to understand that and get their love back so the decisions could be made on an even playing field.
To know that someone loved you so much that they erased you because they thought you were gone and they couldn't cope being without you is a very tough thing to deal with when you return. He must just want to shake her and say "I'm back, you don't have to live without me anymore, we can be happy together!". If he came back and she was just over it, then it would be an easier thing to say OK, I guess we are over since you don't love me anymore and don't think we can work it out. Then maybe he could move on. It's hard to move on knowing that her feelings are suppressed and the old Elena wanted nothing more than to be with him. She wanted to die with him for crying out loud.
Sounds like a poor excuse to jump ship to me! Really, that's why they decided not to ship them anymore? Not when Damon turned off his humanity and ran off with Enzo, not when Elena turned hers off or when they countlessly pushed each other away? Those might be more reason to jump ship (like, they are way to up and down for me, I can't take it!) than a few words uttered from Damon in moments of pain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 14:47:06 GMT -5
I completely agree. But I did not even see those statements as being ill towards Elena and I didn't take them for face value. I don't think they were meant that way at all. Of course he doesn't literally want her to be miserable, he was simply stating that he is miserable without her and if she had her memories, she would be miserable without him too. He probably just wishes she could understand the pain that he is in. She doesn't have to deal with the pain anymore (which is why she did it in the first place) but he does. He never said he didn't want her to be happy at all - he wants her to be happy with him, which by the way is what Elena would want IF SHE STILL HAD HER MEMORIES! He wants her memories back so they can share them together and be happy together. It is a really tough spot to be in for Damon because he can't (and doesn't want to) give up on their love because he knows how much she loved him. He just wants her to understand that and get their love back so the decisions could be made on an even playing field. To know that someone loved you so much that they erased you because they thought you were gone and they couldn't cope being without you is a very tough thing to deal with when you return. He must just want to shake her and say "I'm back, you don't have to live without me anymore, we can be happy together!". If he came back and she was just over it, then it would be an easier thing to say OK, I guess we are over since you don't love me anymore and don't think we can work it out. Then maybe he could move on. It's hard to move on knowing that her feelings are suppressed and the old Elena wanted nothing more than to be with him. She wanted to die with him for crying out loud. Sounds like a poor excuse to jump ship to me! Really, that's why they decided not to ship them anymore? Not when Damon turned off his humanity and ran off with Enzo, not when Elena turned hers off or when they countlessly pushed each other away? Those might be more reason to jump ship (like, they are way to up and down for me, I can't take it!) than a few words uttered from Damon in moments of pain. Haha yeah it makes me think some antis of Delena just ignore all the good and simply only care to point out the bad. Like, ' Selfless moment... selfless moment... selfless moment... AHA! Selfish moment! This pairing is so bad and toxic!' |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 15, 2015 9:26:06 GMT -5
I completely agree. But I did not even see those statements as being ill towards Elena and I didn't take them for face value. I don't think they were meant that way at all. Of course he doesn't literally want her to be miserable, he was simply stating that he is miserable without her and if she had her memories, she would be miserable without him too. He probably just wishes she could understand the pain that he is in. She doesn't have to deal with the pain anymore (which is why she did it in the first place) but he does. He never said he didn't want her to be happy at all - he wants her to be happy with him, which by the way is what Elena would want IF SHE STILL HAD HER MEMORIES! He wants her memories back so they can share them together and be happy together. It is a really tough spot to be in for Damon because he can't (and doesn't want to) give up on their love because he knows how much she loved him. He just wants her to understand that and get their love back so the decisions could be made on an even playing field. To know that someone loved you so much that they erased you because they thought you were gone and they couldn't cope being without you is a very tough thing to deal with when you return. He must just want to shake her and say "I'm back, you don't have to live without me anymore, we can be happy together!". If he came back and she was just over it, then it would be an easier thing to say OK, I guess we are over since you don't love me anymore and don't think we can work it out. Then maybe he could move on. It's hard to move on knowing that her feelings are suppressed and the old Elena wanted nothing more than to be with him. She wanted to die with him for crying out loud. Sounds like a poor excuse to jump ship to me! Really, that's why they decided not to ship them anymore? Not when Damon turned off his humanity and ran off with Enzo, not when Elena turned hers off or when they countlessly pushed each other away? Those might be more reason to jump ship (like, they are way to up and down for me, I can't take it!) than a few words uttered from Damon in moments of pain. Haha yeah it makes me think some antis of Delena just ignore all the good and simply only care to point out the bad. Like, ' Selfless moment... selfless moment... selfless moment... AHA! Selfish moment! This pairing is so bad and toxic!' Yup that would be about right and I did mention that I found it a bit hard to believe these people were really Delena shippers that jumped ship over it. They very well could have been antis claiming to have been Delenas to try to sway people to jump ship over it, ya know? Either way it's weak to say he meant those statements in a selfish way but they got added to the pile the antis use to claim Delena is no good for each other. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 13:11:27 GMT -5
Haha yeah it makes me think some antis of Delena just ignore all the good and simply only care to point out the bad. Like, ' Selfless moment... selfless moment... selfless moment... AHA! Selfish moment! This pairing is so bad and toxic!' Yup that would be about right and I did mention that I found it a bit hard to believe these people were really Delena shippers that jumped ship over it. They very well could have been antis claiming to have been Delenas to try to sway people to jump ship over it, ya know? Either way it's weak to say he meant those statements in a selfish way but they got added to the pile the antis use to claim Delena is no good for each other. This is true especially when you think of moments like jeremy neck snap of 2x01, Elena saying Damon's love is the problem in 3x14, Stelena getting back together in 3x22 after everything etc. these were way more 'jump ship worthy' moments at the time and anyone who's braved all that and is shipping Delena up till now will not jump ship over something so small in the grand scheme of things unless it was someone who never really shipped Delena hardcore. There's still SE shippers holding onto their ship making a comeback despite everything so I don't get how antis think that's somehow looked at as any less selfish with what they wish upon Damon and Elena's relationship. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jan 15, 2015 13:21:05 GMT -5
I believe these fans that claim to be ex Delena fans, are bitter SE fans masquerading as ex DE, trying to add weight to there pathetic arguments that DE killed the show.
EG "I used to be a crazy DE shipper, but even I am tired with there story and it taking over TVD".
A typical statement seen over and over on message boards that are frequented by Stefan/SE fans and Bamon fans. Interesting, lots of these fans are anti Steroline too.
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Post by vampirelust on Jan 15, 2015 13:35:34 GMT -5
Damon was just upset when he said he wants Elena to be miserable just like him, understandably, and he was just sounding off. Stefan knew this and said "you done", and Damon said "YEAH". Of course he didn't mean it, just like he didn't mean it in S1 when he said he hopes Elena dies.
Some fans have no sense of context when evaluating these scenes, or they are just not being intellectually honest in their critiques.
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Post by Somerhaldered on Jan 15, 2015 15:33:43 GMT -5
Damon was just upset when he said he wants Elena to be miserable just like him, understandably, and he was just sounding off. Stefan knew this and said "you done", and Damon said "YEAH". Of course he didn't mean it, just like he didn't mean it in S1 when he said he hopes Elena dies. Some fans have no sense of context when evaluating these scenes, or they are just not being intellectually honest in their critiques. Great point - because a lot of anti comments fail to go beyond what they are actually quoting. When Stefan said "you done" and Damon was like "yeah", that showed us that he was just talking out of his ass and he didn't seriously mean it. He was just ranting. Just like when Bamon fans take a particular phrase and evaluate it but never go beyond with the actual conversation that ensued. Very frustrating. |
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Post by Charlotte on Jan 15, 2015 18:20:13 GMT -5
I thought the entire "selfish" argument was just stupid. Damon was hurt, he was ranting. He was ALLOWED to rant when he found out his soulmate unintentionally screwed him over. I also took his rant even a little further and sweeter-- he thinks of them as one, a union, and his half got hurt. Damon's canon with Elena has always been that he cannot be selfish with her. That hasn't changed. Just DE haters continuing to hate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 7:33:12 GMT -5
What's funny is it becomes more obvious of undercover SE's making these claims, especially if they're going to jump ship from claims of selfish quotes of DE to yet an even more selfish ship in that of Stelena.
In fact maybe these fans who are so up in arms over the whole selfish thing would be better off shipping NOTHING in this show as there's no pretty little perfect fairy tale problem free couple in TVD and the romance in this show has dark themes and people need to stop trying to compare this to a real life role model for a couple.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 16, 2015 8:24:07 GMT -5
What's funny is it becomes more obvious of undercover SE's making these claims, especially if they're going to jump ship from claims of selfish quotes of DE to yet an even more selfish ship in that of Stelena. In fact maybe these fans who are so up in arms over the whole selfish thing would be better off shipping NOTHING in this show as there's no pretty little perfect fairy tale problem free couple in TVD and the romance in this show has dark themes and people need to stop trying to compare this to a real life role model for a couple.  |
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