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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 13, 2015 9:37:32 GMT -5
New thread for all the new speculations out there especially about Jon Snow and if he lives or dies. Also for any foreknowledge of book content that some people might not want to know.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 13, 2015 9:39:35 GMT -5
This video is very spoilery but points out some interesting theories about Jon Snow:
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Post by missmystic on Oct 13, 2015 10:50:38 GMT -5
So here is what I know from studying the books (note, I said "study", not "read" as I have not actually read them lol. I have researched summaries, fan discussions, looked over certain referenced passages from the books, and spoken with friends who have read the books)
The first book has Ned Stark as a POV character, which means we get to hear some of this thoughts and memories about certain things. One of these things that apparently gets frequently mentioned is Ned's memory of his sister's death. For a refresher, in case you guys don't remember from the first season, Ned's sister Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon (the big fat guy who was the king in the first season lol) but was supposedly kidnapped by Prince Rhaegar Targeryan (The eldest son of the "Mad King" who Jamie killed, also Daenerys' oldest brother). This kidnapping lead to Robert starting the war with the Targeryans which he ultimately won. But when Ned and Robert found Lyanna, she was supposedly already dead. However, Ned, it would seem, actually found her first, and he has a memory of her dying in his arms before Robert shows up. So throughout the whole first book, he keeps remembering her dying words to him, which were "Promise me, Ned." Along with these words of Lyanna's, Ned often thinks about his "promise" and his duty to her, and the repercussions of it which weigh on him. Of course eventually he is killed, and so we are never able to delve further into his knowledge of the events that happened back then. But there are comments made by other characters that continue the speculations.
For one thing, it is mentioned often that Arya looks a lot like her aunt Lyanna, and it is also mentioned that Jon and Arya have very similar looks. Many characters have also commented that cheating on his wife is something Ned would never do, and that they find it hard to believe (this was even mentioned in the show recently by Stannis Baratheon). Some characters in the story who knew Rhaegar Targeryan claim that he never kidnapped Lyanna, but that they were actually in love and ran away together. This is somewhat touched upon in the show when Little Finger is telling Sansa the story of how Rhaegar snubbed his wife at a festival by favoring Lyanna with flowers in front of the whole congregation instead of giving them to his wife as was expected. Also several people on the show have now mentioned what a gentle soul Rhaegar was (like when that guy was telling Daenerys about how Rhaegar used to go into the city disguised as a commoner and sing on the streets). Not really the kind of person who would kidnap a high born Lady and keep her prisoner in a tower just to start a war.
So to some up, basically the most prominent theory is that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love, ran off together and eloped, and Jon is actually their son. Ned supposedly promised Lyanna never to reveal the truth for fear that people would try to kill Jon because it would mean he was a contender for the thrown ("Promise me, Ned."). So Ned pretended Jon was his son in order to keep his promise to Lyanna.
There is also a prophecy in the books that they have not really discussed in the show. The prophecy is about a legendary warrior King who's name was Azor Ahai who fought against the White Walkers and was responsible for saving Westros from them. When he died it was said that he would be reborn someday when he was once again needed (which is obviously now), and many signs in the book have pointed to the fact that Jon Snow is probably him. Or, part of him. There are some comments in the books that suggest Azor Ahai will actually be reborn as 3 different people who will form a trio of 3 dragon riders. These three people, according to the fan theories, are most likely Jon Snow, Daenerys Targeryan, and possibly Tyrion Lannister. Now it could be that people think this because those are the 3 most favorite characters lol, but it seems pretty likely to me that at least Jon and Daenerys are probably part of this prophecy. For one thing, the prophecy mentions the fact that Azor Ahai will be born in salt and ash and awaken dragons from stone (which is exactly what Danny did when she burned herself in her husband's funeral pyre). The prophecy also says that Azor Ahai will have a "sword of light" that can kill the White Walkers (which is what Jon did with his sword recently in the show during that White Walker attack he fought in). Azor Ahai is also supposed to be from the Targeryan family line, which Danny obviously is, but Jon might also be if the theories about his parents are true.
So yeah ... that's most of what I know. At least of what I can remember right this minute lol. Thoughts? Comments?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 13, 2015 11:11:12 GMT -5
Yeah I heard that theory as well, but thanks for the details that I didn't know about HOW he could be a Targaryen. I wonder why they think Tyrion could also be? I'm not really sure about the 3 people thing as it could JUST be Jon. Like the above theory states his body will likely be burned, but will it burn? If he's resurrected will Millisandre have something to do with that. She seems to know he's important and now he's dead and she just happens to be there. There have been other resurrected characters before so this ins't far fetched. Kit Harrington said he isn't coming back but maybe another actor will play his resurrected self. I will miss his pretty face if that's true... All of this could easily happen really if he is the one prophesied and if he is, he and Dani could wage war together. That would be pretty darn awesome if you ask me. I love that Tyrion is now on Dani's side as well cause it's the winning side and I love that little man!
Now I don't pay THAT close attention to what is going on and who is who because it's rather confusing to me so if I get some facts wrong that's why. I leave that to the experts who are more into the show than I.
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Post by missmystic on Oct 13, 2015 11:59:40 GMT -5
Yeah I heard that theory as well, but thanks for the details that I didn't know about HOW he could be a Targaryen. I wonder why they think Tyrion could also be? I'm not really sure about the 3 people thing as it could JUST be Jon. Like the above theory states his body will likely be burned, but will it burn? If he's resurrected will Millisandre have something to do with that. She seems to know he's important and now he's dead and she just happens to be there. There have been other resurrected characters before so this ins't far fetched. Kit Harrington said he isn't coming back but maybe another actor will play his resurrected self. I will miss his pretty face if that's true... All of this could easily happen really if he is the one prophesied and if he is, he and Dani could wage war together. That would be pretty darn awesome if you ask me. I love that Tyrion is now on Dani's side as well cause it's the winning side and I love that little man! Now I don't pay THAT close attention to what is going on and who is who because it's rather confusing to me so if I get some facts wrong that's why. I leave that to the experts who are more into the show than I.
So storywise, Melisandre is a big believer in the Azor Ahai prophecy, but she thought it was Stannis. That's the whole reason she was supporting him. Now, as we saw in the show, she has basically been proven wrong. She crawled back to the Wall all dejected and disappointed. But like you said, she IS THERE. What other reason for her to be there is there, other than to resurrect Jon Snow? It's the only thing that makes sense to me. In the books, there is a scene where she asks the Lord of Light to show her Azor Ahai, but she is given a vision of Jon Snow and she gets mad. She thinks the God made a mistake, but maybe now she will realize the truth?
Meanwhile, I don't think they are going to recast Jon. I think Kit is saying what he's been told to say, and maybe there is a twist, but he has been seen on the set IN COSTUME filming for season 5, and he has not cut his hair. Which is telling, because apparently he made comments in interview earlier on in the series talking about how much he hated having to keep his hair long and he couldn't wait to cut it. So if he was really done with the show, wouldn't he have cut it by now? Anyways, I don't think he's done.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 13, 2015 13:07:05 GMT -5
Yeah I heard that theory as well, but thanks for the details that I didn't know about HOW he could be a Targaryen. I wonder why they think Tyrion could also be? I'm not really sure about the 3 people thing as it could JUST be Jon. Like the above theory states his body will likely be burned, but will it burn? If he's resurrected will Millisandre have something to do with that. She seems to know he's important and now he's dead and she just happens to be there. There have been other resurrected characters before so this ins't far fetched. Kit Harrington said he isn't coming back but maybe another actor will play his resurrected self. I will miss his pretty face if that's true... All of this could easily happen really if he is the one prophesied and if he is, he and Dani could wage war together. That would be pretty darn awesome if you ask me. I love that Tyrion is now on Dani's side as well cause it's the winning side and I love that little man! Now I don't pay THAT close attention to what is going on and who is who because it's rather confusing to me so if I get some facts wrong that's why. I leave that to the experts who are more into the show than I.
So storywise, Melisandre is a big believer in the Azor Ahai prophecy, but she thought it was Stannis. That's the whole reason she was supporting him. Now, as we saw in the show, she has basically been proven wrong. She crawled back to the Wall all dejected and disappointed. But like you said, she IS THERE. What other reason for her to be there is there, other than to resurrect Jon Snow? It's the only thing that makes sense to me. In the books, there is a scene where she asks the Lord of Light to show her Azor Ahai, but she is given a vision of Jon Snow and she gets mad. She thinks the God made a mistake, but maybe now she will realize the truth?
Meanwhile, I don't think they are going to recast Jon. I think Kit is saying what he's been told to say, and maybe there is a twist, but he has been seen on the set IN COSTUME filming for season 5, and he has not cut his hair. Which is telling, because apparently he made comments in interview earlier on in the series talking about how much he hated having to keep his hair long and he couldn't wait to cut it. So if he was really done with the show, wouldn't he have cut it by now? Anyways, I don't think he's done.
Oh that's interesting and awesome if he's filming...I'm pretty hyped for what comes next... |
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i always avoid when its on hiatus here to avoid spoilers
Jun 10, 2016 15:46:17 GMT -5
i always avoid when its on hiatus here to avoid spoilers
Jun 10, 2016 15:46:17 GMT -5