Stefan's line in 4x11

[luvitornot]

What does everyone think of this line?

What is he saying? Is this confirmation that he wasn't true self with Elena? That he's been pretending with her?

I can't see many other ways to interpret this. Which isn't good in the context of S/E's relationship. Elena is telling him that he's not this guy, it's not who he is, based on the fact that she dated him on and off for a year and she likes to think that she knows him (You should know someone you've dated for nearly a year)because he was being a jerk. After all he did introduce himself to her as this warm, gentle person who cares too much, and so of course when she sees him "acting out" and "trying to punish her" she assumes that he's not himself, that he's hurt and that this isn't who he is. But Stefan tells her that she doesn't know him outside of being in love with her, which is weird because why should there be a difference, why should Stefan who is in love with Elena, be any different than who he is just in general?

I've always thought that SE only showed parts of themselves to each other, or in Stefan's case not much of himself at all. That their understanding of each other, was highly inaccurate and idealized. Stefan very much put Elena on a pedestal when she was human, he saw her as a beacon of goodness,pure and untainted. Which is not who she is at all. No one is. So this was an idealization on his part, because Elena was a symbol to Stefan. Her "goodness" her humanity all of these things made him feel closer to his own.

When it comes to Elena, she just held on to the guy that she met in the beginning. No matter how many new things came to light, that contradicted her first impressions of him, she never wanted to accept it. She only wanted to believe in the good in him, because it was easier, and she desperately needed something in her life that was stable, and unchanging and Stefan was that. So as long as she could get him back to the guy he was in the beginning, it didn't matter what he did or what she learned about him.

Really the reason why I made this post is because I wanted to get opinions from other people on the boards about this line. On tumblr/twitter and such it seems a lot of Stefan and SE supporters liked this line from Stefan and I can't understand why? He's basically saying the Stefan Elena knew was a lie, that he's not the person he pretended to be when he was with her, or in love with her (Does anyone actually believe Stefan fell out of love with Elena that fast? Come on! . But weirdly a lot of people seemed to like it and I don't understand. I liked it, but only because it seems to confirm what I already knew about Stefan and SE, but it may just be my interpretation, and if there are others out there I'd very much like to discuss them.

Also what's everyone's take on Stefan believing the sire-bond is real, but still treating Elena so horribly? And so many fans who think the sire bond is responsible are fine with him treating her like this. I'm trying to get his POV but it's not making sense. He insists that she's sired to Damon and she has no control over anything she does and that's the sole reason why she's acting so differently, yet Stefan sort of goes out of his way this episode to be a first rate jack ass to her. That line in the end was said with the cruel intentions, he wanted to hurt her, and he's working with Rebekah against her, to spite her. He's doing and saying all these things to hurt and spite her, despite believing she's still sired and helpless. (I don't believe the reason Elena is doing these things is bc of the sire bond) but for the sake of argument, let's say this is true. Let's say once the sire bond is broken, Elena feelings change and it turns out everything was a result of the sire bond and she was helpless the entire time, how awful is it that Stefan would have treated her so horribly? If this was the case, shouldn't he be the strong for her and them, and try to be supportive or even if that's too hard at the very least not treat her like dirt since she's supposedly helpless? I don't know I just can't get what Stefan is doing. He insists she's helpless but he treats her horribly. It seems like he's saying the sire bond is responsible for everything, but he's acting like it's not. It's very contradictory.

[Doppelgänger]

I believe you are absolutely correct and I don't know what else we can take from that statement but that he is a fake when he is with her and acted the way he knew she wanted him to act so he could have her. This is the real Stefan and we have seen that real Stefan in his interactions with his brother over the seasons and other people, like when he told Matt he had to earn being alive every day, how jerky he acted then. Stuff like that was a window into who Stefan really is.

[mysticangel]

I have, almost since the end of season one, been curious as to why Stefan is constantly portrayed in such a negative fashion.

He's a ripper, or he's a love besotted bunny diet vamp with no motivation beyond protecting his girlfriend of the hour. He's acting crazy or he's motivated to work with/against someone at the expense of everythng and everyone but Elena.

What happened to the middle ground? The area in which Stefan has some good mixed in with some bad? No one, elevated emotions or not, ever exists in the kind of state Stefan has been perpetually stuck in on this show- that of a one dimensional, single minded, sole motivation. Because they hit burnout very, very quickly- and lose their ability to adapt to new information, new events, new things and people in their lives.

I think the writers were actually trying to fix that over the last episode or two by having Stefan move away from Elena. The problem is that the character needs to have more than one motivation at a time in order to seem even somewhat realistic to the audience. Having those motivations conflict and watching Stefan resolve them would make the character worth watching again.

[Slash]

^^^There is no middle-ground with Stefan. One extreme or the other with him. He's either Ripper, gorging on blood, or he's 'Stefan', animal diet, trying to stay away from others less he loses control. The Writers really haven't given him much to do outside of Elena and now is their chance yet he's still tied to her as motive because of the whole sire bond thing.

As mentioned though, if he's of such a belief in the sire bond, why is he treating her this way? Wouldn't he be more 'smug'(he's pretty smug right now) with a "Elena, that's just the sire bond talking sweety" attitude to everything she says pertaining to Damon or choices? And yeah, I asked about how SEs took the comment about being out of love with her and I'm kind of surprised if that's the stance most are taking.

EDIT: Honestly, as much as I don't like the current pairing with Bekah, I'd settle with it if she wasn't after the cure herself and the 2 were just on the sideline watching whatever mess Klaus & Kol work up. If he actually just took Elena completely out of the picture and was being 'himself' for the rest of the season and maybe just occasionally showing up to help (save Damon and gloat afterwards or what have you) but otherwise, getting more of a look into his 'just before returning to MF' or an 'after you were daggered in the 20s Bekah...' journey, I'd be fine with it.

I honestly care little for Elena and the trouble she causes, by actions or just by some weird proxy effect (friends want to help her, new baddy wants to kidnap her, she's the key to something, etc.) but she's more of a detriment to Stefan's character than anyone. He needs some distance. Although she's done some good for Damon, I didn't like all the pining he did earlier on and the current "lets get on board Klaus' plan" bs that happened in the past episode. Yeah, she had Stefan acting 'good' but he shouldn't be lying/fronting that entire time just for her benefit. She has to like him for who he is and by some miracle, if she forces him to change or the good to shine more, more power to the relationship but for him to have to keep up an image is just wrong and tiring for him I'm sure. Plus, there is always Katherine. Sure, she messed up the Salvatores' lives royally but put her with either of the brothers and I'm more than entertained by an interest that has some 'bite' and can put her love in his place (kind of why I like Bekah and liked Rose).

[Sweetluv4DE]

I honestly felt like in season 1 we saw a glimpse into who Stefan really is when Elena saved him and he started drinking blood and lying to everyone. (except for when he lost control and went ripper)
Elena saw a difference and immediately knew something had changed in his personality. Damon also knew something was up and he found the blood. He seemed fun and loose. I mean at times he was smug but I think Stefan is a bit smug and has always been a bit smug since 1864. In the flashback it shows how proper and smug Stefan really was around Damon and Katherine until Damon would joke a playful side out of him. For example: Katherine stole the football. Damon was like she wants to be chased and Stefan stood there all proper like "I cant not chase" then Damon went and then Stefan followed. He has a tenancy to act above things sometimes.

I truly believe that Stefan thinks he is above the ripper and that is why he can never control him. He may want to be above that and control makes him feel above the ripper but you cant be above what you are inside. You have to fix it and then live with it. If you are a drug addict you cant leave yourself un-fixed and then act like your above the drug addicts of the world because once some coke is in front of you, you will relapse. You never fixed or actually became clean of the drug.

But Stefan honestly needs to be visited more. I mean who is he? I'd like to know. I don't want TVD to end and I never understood who the real Stefan was. I really want to know this guy. He cant be the brooding controlled Stefan. He cant be the ripper Stefan. So who is he? Elena has no clue because he has said "you haven't seen me not in love with you" which now she does and how is he treating her? Smug, hurts, mean and this cant be the real Stefan right? I'm honestly wondering.

And as an audience ALL we have seen is Stefan who is in love with Elena so anyone who defends this comment should be just as confused as to who he is because all we have seen is Stefan in love so no one should know or pretend to know who Stefan is because WE HAVE NEVER SEEN IT! We are Elena right now. In the dark. Everyone should be like ok.....so who are you Stefan? We have seen glimpses like the example I stated in season 1 but we truly don't know. If there was a character I loved and he said this line and from the first line of the promo he said "he had to know her" and was already in love with her I'd be annoyed with the writers.

Was he saying it to just hurt her or has everything we seen of Stefan really not Stefan? Because from that very first line until she broke his heart he was in love and that is the Stefan we have known for almost 4 whole seasons. Who s this guy?

[Doppelgänger]

Good points Sweet. I don't think we really do know who Stefan is. Let's hope they take the time to actually go through an arc with him where he comes out the other end better for it, not cut it short like the Ripper arc. Maybe that was intentional to almost but not quite get somewhere with him, like the alcoholic who relaspses repeatedly until he finally quits for good.

[Ruby2579]

My Theory on the whole line is that what Stefan said was a load of crap. He still loves her he is just extremely hurt by it all and I guess pissed off. As a Stefan fan I was personally pleased that he gave her that little speech even if I knew it was crap, but the only reason I was pleased it wasn't because I don't believe Stelena won't ever happen again but because Elena has just been getting on my nerves lately so him not giving in to her I was ok with. (Same way I was ok with Rebekah saying her snarky comments about her and snapping her neck)

Now Stefan saying that she doesn't know who he is when he's not in love with her I feel it was just out of spite because The real Stefan is not the ripper (He allows the Ripper to control him when its out to play) and I don't believe Stefan is a complete AHOLE and this is why.

Before he even met Elena he was on the Bunny Diet and I don't think it was because he was trying to be better then his brother or to make him self look glorious. I think its because Stefan didn't want to be this crazy monster he turns into when he lefts his full on Vampire instincts come out to play.

The fact that Stefan jumped into a Lake because he heard a car crash over and fall in is not a Stefan who couldn't care less about anything it was someone who wanted to try to save people who might die. He saw Elena AFTER that not before.

So that shows me a part of who Stefan truly is…Someone who cares even Emely told Stefan your curse will be your heart because your heart is pure.
Now does that define who Stefan has become? NO And Im actually interested in seeing who's Stefan while he's not with Elena who he is as a friend and brother and person overall.

Can Stefan be self glorious or judgmental towards his brother? yes Im not afraid to admit that. I've seen when he has done it but i've also seen Stefan do anything to save his brother as well. and Ive also seen stefan try not to put himself on a pedestal. Does he fail sometimes definitely. Part of this I believe (IMO) is because deep down Stefan is jealous of Damon when it comes to his control over the vampirism. Damon is able to control himself indulge and have fun without loosing control and if he decides to loose control its his decision to do because he wants to not because he can't control it.

So I also agree about Stefan's Extreme Methods to cope with emotion or his issues and its something that I hope this season they help him develop or learn how to control. Ive said it many times that the person who could help Stefan with all of this is his brother. Its Damon. And I wish Lexi would've let Damon go with Stefan to war because he would've been there for him and helped him through the process.

[Sweetluv4DE]

I agree with you on lots of points Ruby. I do think Stefan has good in him. He did save Elena and he does love his brother. He obviously has good in him. I also do think he is somewhat jealous that Damon can control his blood and he cant but I don't think it's the root of their problems. I also do think if anyone is going to help Stefan fight his ripper demons it would be Damon and Lexi was SUPER wrong to not let Damon go off to war by guilt tripping him. I always felt Lexi was a band aid on Stefan. She just helped him to put the band aid on the ripper but the wound was always still there underneath it.

Now for the lines he gave Elena. I'm not happy with them. If I had thought she deserved them then sure I would have been ok with it because honestly Queen Elena sometimes needs a good talking to. But I honestly think this is not her fault. She never set out to hurt Stefan. Her actions may have hurt him but it was never intentional. She was following her heart and that led her to Damon. Stefan has always known something was between the two of them since he confronted Damon season 2. In season 3 he told her she had feelings for him and made her go on the trip and then told her he didn't want to know what happened. He even made the deal with Damon to leave. She never resolved those feelings for Damon. Just because she picked Stefan doesn't mean that undid anything she felt for Damon. She just once again masked it by picking Stefan.

So I think the SB is fake but Stefan does not. He is still so unsure of her feelings for his brother. He even tells Bekah this the night they team up. So if you are so unsure of her feelings and why she is even feeling them why blame her and be mean to her? Is she sired? If he thinks she is sired and that SB's cause feelings (which the show has led us to believe Stefan does) then this isn't her fault. You wouldn't scream at a kid in a cast for tripping over and knocking over a table. It's not his fault! So why is Stefan being mean to Elena if he doesn't know if the sire bond is really truly affecting her.

So those who think and say they know she is sired are cheering on Stefan! Like he can just be rude and mean to her either way. Telling her she doesn't know him if he's not in love with her is just dumb. If my husband fell out of love with me I still know the guy. I know he's stub burn, giving and honorable. It doesn't mean you change who you are. It was an odd line to say and honestly I think they wrote it to stab Elena in the heart which she didn't deserve.

Even if she did all of this because she truly loves Damon and isn't sired (which I believe) she still never went out to intentionally hurt Stefan nor did this come out of left field. He wasn't blindsided. She never cheated and yes I get that he is hurt but you can show your hurt in other ways than verbally attacking someone and hurting them back. It's tit for tat.

This has nothing to do with DE this has to do with my love for Elena and whether or not I felt she deserved to get hurt like that. She is still a young girl trying to figure everything out in the world and I adore Elena. Like I said sometimes she deserves a good talking to but Stefan for me didn't have to do that to Elena and I for one don't want her treated that way.

[Doppelgänger]

I've been in a relationship that ended and the other person turned into someone unrecognizable to me, so I think it is possible for someone to change right before your eyes because your relationship ended. I would say now that he was a phony and I was probably right, in my case, so it comes from my own experience to say that it is possible Stefan was faking everything with Elena, trying to be what she wanted him to be, but that it isn't who he really is. Yes, he has good in him. I would not say he doesn't, but was he really himself with her? He indicated he was not. So he's a big fat liar either way, if he's lying now about not loving her or if he was lying then about who he was to her. Either way it's not a good sign for Stefan.

[Ruby2579]

I guess thats why Elena has just been getting on my nerves and yes I feel Stefan gave her a low blow with what he told her. And I don't even think Elena deserved the whole line but I think when Stefan's upset he talks out of spite which IS NOT A GOOD CHARACTER TRAIT TO HAVE because people like that regret it after they said it.


And Im not sure if Stefan even Blames Elena for it or for the sire bond.
When she told him how many times do I have to apologize he said I never asked you to Elena.

I think overall Stefan is upset at himself. He's upset with not having enough time to save Elena from the accident or even picking Matt first 
And maybe feels guilty because he thinks if she would've never been turned a vampire then the sire bond wouldn't had happened etc etc

And Stefan being upset at himself he is channeling his anger with this whole I don't give a crap attitude, No Feelings No Attachments stuff 

[Sweetluv4DE]

Jan 28, 2013 13:38:38 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

I've been in a relationship that ended and the other person turned into someone unrecognizable to me, so I think it is possible for someone to change right before your eyes because your relationship ended. I would say now that he was a phony and I was probably right, in my case, so it comes from my own experience to say that it is possible Stefan was faking everything with Elena, trying to be what she wanted him to be, but that it isn't who he really is. Yes, he has good in him. I would not say he doesn't, but was he really himself with her? He indicated he was not. So he's a big fat liar either way, if he's lying now about not loving her or if he was lying then about who he was to her. Either way it's not a good sign for Stefan.

I get that too Doppel. So there can be two ways of going here. Your circumstance and mine.... Either he wasn't who he was the whole time or he was just lying to her to hurt her. Either way it does make him a liar. 

[Doppelgänger]

I don't think it would make me happy if I was a Stefan fan that he said that because of what it implies. Yeah, maybe temporarily the satisfaction of him sticking it to Elena, but the long term implications of what it means for Stefan as a character to see him changing before our eyes, because he is changing, sleeping with Bex, for example, having this attitude like he doesn't care and NOT being Rippered. These are things we were able to point to the Ripper on for his behavior in the past, or at least his fans were. I never cut him any slack. I saw the possibilities that he was like this in reality a long time ago.

[Ruby2579]

Jan 28, 2013 14:01:18 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

I don't think it would make me happy if I was a Stefan fan that he said that because of what it implies. Yeah, maybe temporarily the satisfaction of him sticking it to Elena, but the long term implications of what it means for Stefan as a character to see him changing before our eyes, because he is changing, sleeping with Bex, for example, having this attitude like he doesn't care and NOT being Rippered. These are things we were able to point to the Ripper on for his behavior in the past, or at least his fans were. I never cut him any slack. I saw the possibilities that he was like this in reality a long time ago.

of what implies?

[luvitornot]

Jan 28, 2013 2:36:41 GMT -5 Slash said:

I honestly care little for Elena and the trouble she causes, by actions or just by some weird proxy effect (friends want to help her, new baddy wants to kidnap her, she's the key to something, etc.) but she's more of a detriment to Stefan's character than anyone. He needs some distance. Although she's done some good for Damon, I didn't like all the pining he did earlier on and the current "lets get on board Klaus' plan" bs that happened in the past episode. Yeah, she had Stefan acting 'good' but he shouldn't be lying/fronting that entire time just for her benefit. She has to like him for who he is and by some miracle, if she forces him to change or the good to shine more, more power to the relationship but for him to have to keep up an image is just wrong and tiring for him I'm sure. Plus, there is always Katherine. Sure, she messed up the Salvatores' lives royally but put her with either of the brothers and I'm more than entertained by an interest that has some 'bite' and can put her love in his place (kind of why I like Bekah and liked Rose).

 I have trouble understanding why Elena is always to blame for how Stefan behaved (or either of the Salvatores ). Elena cannot control how Stefan or anyone acts acts, and I think it's unfair to put any blame on her or, say that she was somehow detrimental to him. Elena didn't make Stefan the way he was, he practically forced his way into her life under the false pretense that he was this good guy vampire who would never hurt a soul. This was Stefan BEFORE Elena knew him. So why does she constantly get blamed for him choosing to be this person? It's Stefan's fault, if he wasn't partly dishonest about who he was in the first place, then she would have no reason to expect him to behave like a good guy. If you meet someone and they lead you to believe that they're something that they're not, it's not your fault if you expect them to conduct themselves accordingly. So I don't get why people say he's done this just for Elena's benefit, or that she has Stefan "acting good." She's the one who's been mislead by Stefan because Stefan decided he wasn't going to be honest about who he was, so why is Elena the villain here for expecting him to act the way he presented himself? And Stefan's being "good" was not for Elena's benefit either, it was for his own benefit, because he wanted to be with her, or have her in his life for his own reasons and he'd do whatever he had to do to make that happen, even pretend to be this person that he wasn't.

In my opinion, Elena is the one who's been wronged here, she was lead on in a relationship with someone who was not honest about himself, and she ended up falling for this guy that didn't really exist (at least not really). That's the obvious conclusion on my end, I'm not really sure why Elena would be even remotely to blame for Stefan carrying on this charade of the good vampire boyfriend, when he introduced himself as such in the first place. What was she supposed to think?

[Doppelgänger]

Jan 28, 2013 15:03:00 GMT -5 Ruby2579 said:

Jan 28, 2013 14:01:18 GMT -5 Doppelgänger said:

I don't think it would make me happy if I was a Stefan fan that he said that because of what it implies. Yeah, maybe temporarily the satisfaction of him sticking it to Elena, but the long term implications of what it means for Stefan as a character to see him changing before our eyes, because he is changing, sleeping with Bex, for example, having this attitude like he doesn't care and NOT being Rippered. These are things we were able to point to the Ripper on for his behavior in the past, or at least his fans were. I never cut him any slack. I saw the possibilities that he was like this in reality a long time ago.

of what implies?

Of him saying she hasn't seen him when he isn't in love with her implies that he wasn't the same person that he is now and if he wasn't which one is the real Stefan?