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Post by Slash on Dec 22, 2011 10:19:38 GMT -5
Just because it was Stefan's choice to hand himself over to Klaus does not mean that he gave the right away to be mad/upset/angry about the outcome. It does not mean it does not warrant him wanting payback for the torture he endured. Yes it was his choice and it is now his choice to get mad about it. Torture is probably debatable. We have to remember that there is a part of Stefan that thrives and enjoys the stuff he was doing. Granted, being in the middle ground between those personalities might leave him half-enjoying/half-hating what he's doing but to say he was enduring torture when the Ripper was out may be a stretch. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 10:34:00 GMT -5
Just because it was Stefan's choice to hand himself over to Klaus does not mean that he gave the right away to be mad/upset/angry about the outcome. It does not mean it does not warrant him wanting payback for the torture he endured. Yes it was his choice and it is now his choice to get mad about it. Torture is probably debatable. We have to remember that there is a part of Stefan that thrives and enjoys the stuff he was doing. Granted, being in the middle ground between those personalities might leave him half-enjoying/half-hating what he's doing but to say he was enduring torture when the Ripper was out may be a stretch. I do not think it is a stretch at all. The whole scene when Klaus wanted him to "turn it off" was torture. Making him have the clock count down to when he was going to have to bite Elena. I think it was pure torture. The scene with him, Elena, and Lexi. You are saying he wasn't feeling tortured in his own skin? That Klaus did not do that to him. There is no question in my mind that Klaus tortured Stefan. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Dec 22, 2011 13:45:53 GMT -5
Just because it was Stefan's choice to hand himself over to Klaus does not mean that he gave the right away to be mad/upset/angry about the outcome. It does not mean it does not warrant him wanting payback for the torture he endured. Yes it was his choice and it is now his choice to get mad about it. I understand being mad at the circumstances/outcome, but choosing to get revenge at everyone else's expense, because of choices Stefan made himself, is where the problem lies for me. If Stefan's revenge on Klaus didn't automatically mean his brother, ex-girlfriend and everyone they ever known or loved would be in mortal danger, than it wouldn't so much of a big deal, considering the chaos Klaus has inflicted upon Mystic Falls. But getting revenge and risking the lives of the very people he tried to protect just seems rather reckless to me, and this is mainly where I have a problem with it. Why would Stefan even risk calling Klaus's bluff when he said he'd kill everyone he'd ever met? That just shows that at this point revenge is so much more important to him, that he's willing to gamble away the lives of his loved ones. Because Stefan if anyone should know Klaus does not play by any ones rules, and he does not take kindly to threats. If we're going by the promos for the next few episodes, I think it's safe to say that his need for revenge is going to come at everyone else's peril. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 14:45:47 GMT -5
Just because it was Stefan's choice to hand himself over to Klaus does not mean that he gave the right away to be mad/upset/angry about the outcome. It does not mean it does not warrant him wanting payback for the torture he endured. Yes it was his choice and it is now his choice to get mad about it. I understand being mad at the circumstances/outcome, but choosing to get revenge at everyone else's expense, because of choices Stefan made himself, is where the problem lies for me. If Stefan's revenge on Klaus didn't automatically mean his brother, ex-girlfriend and everyone they ever known or loved would be in mortal danger, than it wouldn't so much of a big deal, considering the chaos Klaus has inflicted upon Mystic Falls. But getting revenge and risking the lives of the very people he tried to protect just seems rather reckless to me, and this is mainly where I have a problem with it. Why would Stefan even risk calling Klaus's bluff when he said he'd kill everyone he'd ever met? That just shows that at this point revenge is so much more important to him, that he's willing to gamble away the lives of his loved ones. Because Stefan if anyone should know Klaus does not play by any ones rules, and he does not take kindly to threats. If we're going by the promos for the next few episodes, I think it's safe to say that his need for revenge is going to come at everyone else's peril. Well, as I said before, he isn't perfect and sometimes his emotions get the best of him. Stefan is not some super being that can take anything and act calmly and rationally all the time and I do not think that should be expected of him. He has suffered a lot and emotionally I think he is at one of his lowest points. I think his wanting revenge proves that. Stefan is not "vengeful" as far as we have seen. So for him to become this waymeans he must be in a really dark place. Plus, I do not think that Stefan would intentionally put people at risk and it seems from the spoilers the only person that is going to affected is going to be Stefan. I think it said Klaus turns everyone against him. So I am not seeing how they are any more at risk then they were already protecting Elena (the doppleganger). I guess we will have to wait and see how much more at risk mystic falls is. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 14:58:09 GMT -5
I guess I should say most affected not the only person affected.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 22, 2011 18:28:27 GMT -5
I understand being mad at the circumstances/outcome, but choosing to get revenge at everyone else's expense, because of choices Stefan made himself, is where the problem lies for me. If Stefan's revenge on Klaus didn't automatically mean his brother, ex-girlfriend and everyone they ever known or loved would be in mortal danger, than it wouldn't so much of a big deal, considering the chaos Klaus has inflicted upon Mystic Falls. But getting revenge and risking the lives of the very people he tried to protect just seems rather reckless to me, and this is mainly where I have a problem with it. Why would Stefan even risk calling Klaus's bluff when he said he'd kill everyone he'd ever met? That just shows that at this point revenge is so much more important to him, that he's willing to gamble away the lives of his loved ones. Because Stefan if anyone should know Klaus does not play by any ones rules, and he does not take kindly to threats. If we're going by the promos for the next few episodes, I think it's safe to say that his need for revenge is going to come at everyone else's peril. Well, as I said before, he isn't perfect and sometimes his emotions get the best of him. Stefan is not some super being that can take anything and act calmly and rationally all the time and I do not think that should be expected of him. He has suffered a lot and emotionally I think he is at one of his lowest points. I think his wanting revenge proves that. Stefan is not "vengeful" as far as we have seen. So for him to become this waymeans he must be in a really dark place. Plus, I do not think that Stefan would intentionally put people at risk and it seems from the spoilers the only person that is going to affected is going to be Stefan. I think it said Klaus turns everyone against him. So I am not seeing how they are any more at risk then they were already protecting Elena (the doppleganger). I guess we will have to wait and see how much more at risk mystic falls is. I understand Stefan's frustrations. I understand his anger and hurt. He made a choice to be Klaus's whipping boy and he got whipped. Maybe worse than he ever thought he would. I do think he was tortured in that gym with the countdown to bite Elena. I think he was tortured when he jabbed the stake to not hurt her. Klaus messed with Stefan so bad that night. But if you are looking at it from a Klaus standpoint here Klaus is chilling with the cure. Stefan comes to him and says I'll do anything to save my brother. ANYTHING! Klaus says ok be a ripper again and listen to everything I say. Stefan makes no fuss takes the cure and boom he is a ripper again. Klaus thinks everything is dandy and Stefan is on his side yet Stefan is making calls to a doppelganger who is supposed to be dead and talking to his brother in the woods when he is supposed to be looking for a hybrid on the loose. Klaus needs a necklace and Stefan will not tell him Elena is in fact alive and is wearing the damn thing. Why wouldn't Klaus go to Mystic and torture him? He betrayed everything Klaus asked of him in order to get the cure for Damon. Klaus turned off his humanity bc he could not trust Stefan and coming from Klaus's perspective rightfully so. He needed to hold his end of the bargain and he didn't so Klaus found a way to make him. Stefan then went behind Klaus's back and made a plan with Mikael to kill him. Another back stab. Klaus thinking Stefan tried to save him from Damon, let him off the hook being that he was really tricked. Stefan is free. Stefan goes and steals the coffins. Klaus has every right coming from his perspective to be PISSED at Stefan and do everything he can to get his family back. Klaus held his end and Stefan did nothing but lie, back stab and betray Klaus for the cure. Yes Stefan killed a few people and did a few of his bidding's but Stefan was in this for life or until Klaus decided he didn't need him. He knew this going into it his life was over. What happened to Stefan in that gym was torture but ultimately at the end of the day it's his fault if you look at it from Klaus's perspective or from a business transaction perspective. Revenge should have been thrown down the toilet. Stefan should have been re-leaved not vengeful. And the promo shows someone chasing Elena and Jeremy almost being hit by a car. I'd say Stefan is putting the ones he tried to protect in danger. I care about Stefan and I'm truly sorry but at the end of the day if I take my heart out of it and I look at it from a business standpoint Stefan F-ed up. |
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Post by Slash on Dec 22, 2011 19:08:57 GMT -5
Torture is probably debatable. We have to remember that there is a part of Stefan that thrives and enjoys the stuff he was doing. Granted, being in the middle ground between those personalities might leave him half-enjoying/half-hating what he's doing but to say he was enduring torture when the Ripper was out may be a stretch. I do not think it is a stretch at all. The whole scene when Klaus wanted him to "turn it off" was torture. Making him have the clock count down to when he was going to have to bite Elena. I think it was pure torture. The scene with him, Elena, and Lexi. You are saying he wasn't feeling tortured in his own skin? That Klaus did not do that to him. There is no question in my mind that Klaus tortured Stefan. Conflicted between 2 states of mind. Ripper Stefan enjoying it, 'Good' Stefan trying to resist. I think Klaus may have been 'pushing' but I think when it comes down to it, Stefan was torturing himself by keeping both aspects of his personality out at the same time. From what we've seen of flashbacks and present day, neither side of him exists at any given same time (we've never seen him in a 'transition' period) and each side hates what the other stands for/enjoys. If he had just 'shut it off', it'd have been easier on him and wouldn't have forced Klaus to do anything. He *seemed* to be doing this with the random girls they were feeding on but when it came to Elena peeking her head out of the trench to look for him, 'Good' Stefan once again became a problem for him. Ripper Stefan does care to some extent (about Damon as we've seen) but both aspects of his personality haven't learned to live with each other and that's probably what tortured him more over that 3 month time period when he's used to it being 1 or the other. This post is confusing  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2011 21:25:33 GMT -5
I agree from Klaus' perspective that he did more then his fair share... that in no way does he understand what Stefan's motivations for taking those coffins.
I agree that Stefan will grow more as a character because of this experience because he will be forced to live and be past and present Stefan (Ripper and non ripper at the same time). The way he was living was not going to work forever and Elena deserved know him at his worst. All in all what he went through, I think, will eventually make him stronger.
I just think that people should be understanding of Stefan's actions. Maybe not agree, but understand why he is where he is right now.
....if that makes sense.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Dec 22, 2011 21:39:33 GMT -5
I agree from Klaus' perspective that he did more then his fair share... that in no way does he understand what Stefan's motivations for taking those coffins. I agree that Stefan will grow more as a character because of this experience because he will be forced to live and be past and present Stefan (Ripper and non ripper at the same time). The way he was living was not going to work forever and Elena deserved know him at his worst. All in all what he went through, I think, will eventually make him stronger. I just think that people should be understanding of Stefan's actions. Maybe not agree, but understand why he is where he is right now. ....if that makes sense. Totally makes sense. Not coming down on him at all. I think his choice was a dumb one to take the coffins but right now I'm not angry I just think he was a bit reckless. Can I understand why he did it? Sure. He went through Hell and he thinks he is justified in taking action. From Stefan's standpoint I totally understand how sour he feels. But as an outsider looking in I can appreciate all view points including Klaus's and say wow Stefan this was not the choice you should have made. Look Damon is reckless and rash through and through but the complexity of why he does it is why I love him. I would not be fair to judge Stefan in this situation if I had not first judged Damon at his lowest. I understand and love both brothers but at the end of they day stupid is just stupid and Stefan made a stupid choice to me so far with the information I have. |
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Post by pixiestyx on Dec 22, 2011 22:43:44 GMT -5
I agree from Klaus' perspective that he did more then his fair share... that in no way does he understand what Stefan's motivations for taking those coffins. I agree that Stefan will grow more as a character because of this experience because he will be forced to live and be past and present Stefan (Ripper and non ripper at the same time). The way he was living was not going to work forever and Elena deserved know him at his worst. All in all what he went through, I think, will eventually make him stronger. I just think that people should be understanding of Stefan's actions. Maybe not agree, but understand why he is where he is right now. ....if that makes sense. No, it makes sense. As I said, I think it was awesome, but stupid thing to do. It doesn't bother me at all. |
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Post by Slash on Dec 22, 2011 22:49:11 GMT -5
I agree from Klaus' perspective that he did more then his fair share... that in no way does he understand what Stefan's motivations for taking those coffins. I agree that Stefan will grow more as a character because of this experience because he will be forced to live and be past and present Stefan (Ripper and non ripper at the same time). The way he was living was not going to work forever and Elena deserved know him at his worst. All in all what he went through, I think, will eventually make him stronger. I just think that people should be understanding of Stefan's actions. Maybe not agree, but understand why he is where he is right now. ....if that makes sense. All I want to see when this is over. I want to see this experience for him being the final straw in getting him to stop being one extreme or the other and locking away parts of himself. When it's all over, I want to see him make the decision to try and find the middle ground between the 2 Stefans. I think ideally, a state of mind in that middle ground would be the 'real' Stefan. Him getting a handle on his blood problem is an obstacle I think he has to overcome to be a stronger/better person and it'll dawn on him sooner or later. Right now, he hates himself one way or the other. That's not something he should be living with. |
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Post by pixiestyx on Dec 22, 2011 23:04:29 GMT -5
Agreed. Stefan cannot go through his life living two extremes. It's always been rather interesting to me that Damon, for all of his 'bad' brotherness has been the one trying to get Stefan to find a balance, pretty much since season 1. It may have been for varying reasons but it was there.
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Post by ruby2579 on Dec 30, 2011 11:48:48 GMT -5
OKAY SO I GUESS I will start the DEBATE!!! Because I think it was a Brilliant thing to DO! =) by stealing the coffins and this is why.
There is still missing information that Klaus has yet to reveal. When Klaus was talking to Elena(Really Katherine) at the Homecoming Dance, he said PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFTER ME FOR YEARS AND IM ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD
A lot of people did not catch the People instead of it being just Michael. This means there are more people out to KIll Klaus as well we just do not know who or why.
Michael also said he had the weapon that can kill klaus hidden as an insurance policy and Stefan asked him why would he need leverage or an insurance policy, meaning there are things out there that might be bigger then the originals, or out to kill them(this is my theory)
When Katherine told Stefan I want you to get Mad, its because they need to find new information that can lead to killing Klaus, and what way to get info out of him by stealing something he loves.
It does look Stupid because Klaus will Kill everyone BUT he is not going to kill everyone because Stefan is Threatening him right back on. He said you do that and you will never see your family again.
I think Katherine and Stefan are up to something and I trust Katherine when it comes to scheming. She's pretty good at it and Stefan would be dumb not to listen to her.
When she told him to stay away from Rebekah because she will cause him damage, he did the opposite of what she told him and thats how they ended up going back to Mystic Falls and the whole episode of the gym etc etc.
Stefan knows what he is doing, maybe he will negotiate something for him and klaus to come to an agreement but I know there is more to it then just plain old revenge. I think Stefan is messing with him and thats good because nobody ever had the balls to come at Klaus like that. =)
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Post by Slash on Dec 30, 2011 13:56:00 GMT -5
OKAY SO I GUESS I will start the DEBATE!!! Because I think it was a Brilliant thing to DO! =) by stealing the coffins and this is why. There is still missing information that Klaus has yet to reveal. When Klaus was talking to Elena(Really Katherine) at the Homecoming Dance, he said PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFTER ME FOR YEARS AND IM ALWAYS ONE STEP AHEAD A lot of people did not catch the People instead of it being just Michael. This means there are more people out to KIll Klaus as well we just do not know who or why. Michael also said he had the weapon that can kill klaus hidden as an insurance policy and Stefan asked him why would he need leverage or an insurance policy, meaning there are things out there that might be bigger then the originals, or out to kill them(this is my theory) When Katherine told Stefan I want you to get Mad, its because they need to find new information that can lead to killing Klaus, and what way to get info out of him by stealing something he loves. It does look Stupid because Klaus will Kill everyone BUT he is not going to kill everyone because Stefan is Threatening him right back on. He said you do that and you will never see your family again. I think Katherine and Stefan are up to something and I trust Katherine when it comes to scheming. She's pretty good at it and Stefan would be dumb not to listen to her. When she told him to stay away from Rebekah because she will cause him damage, he did the opposite of what she told him and thats how they ended up going back to Mystic Falls and the whole episode of the gym etc etc. Stefan knows what he is doing, maybe he will negotiate something for him and klaus to come to an agreement but I know there is more to it then just plain old revenge. I think Stefan is messing with him and thats good because nobody ever had the balls to come at Klaus like that. =) I think plenty of people caught the 'People' thing. Klaus was building an army of Hybrids to be a deterrent against others challenging him and his family. We've clearly seen a few cases: Mikael, his mom is trying to orchestrate something from the beyond, and even Elijah was looking to put an end to him. Klaus has been a recluse and we're to believe that it's because of his obsession with finding a back door to the Curse at the time but it's looking more likely he's been avoiding people like Elijah and Mikael (Elijah was trying to lure him out initially). And we still have no clue who put Mikael down and away. Klaus/Bekah knew where he was but that just seems odd that they'd leave him that exposed unless someone else put him there and they were afraid of trying to finish him off cause said someone could still be out there. Then we know that him becoming a Hybrid wasn't winning over everyone so you have to think other Witches were probably on his tail not only for the whole Hybrid thing, but also kidnapping their children. The aspect of him carrying around his family is strange. I'm sure it's done out of love and to keep them in line while he gets things done but why wake them up after killing Mikael when Mikael had no qualms with anyone but him? Keep the family from getting involved with him and Mikael's fight? We've seen that Bekah & Elijah didn't agree with the way Mikael treated Klaus so it's just odd about the whole family thing. And Mikael had other hunters with him in the 20s so he either had compelled them or was working with a 3rd party that had an interest in tracking down Klaus, an Original looking to become a Hybrid and create an army. As for the 'insurance' thing, the only weapon that could ultimately kill Klaus or any Original was in his possession. That's quite the bargaining chip in a deal with someone else who had a bone to pick with Klaus but didn't trust any Originals. I just don't like the idea that they find another means or are going to play Russian Roulette with another group/being who can bring down Klaus/the Originals. The show has a habit of working a cycle where a supposed enemy ends up becoming an ally against a bigger threat (Damon > Katherine > Elijah > Klaus/Originals >  ). And I doubt Stefan messing with Bekah would have ended any different. Klaus was looking for what was wrong with his Hybrids and he would have ended back up in MF for one reason or another. |
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Post by ruby2579 on Dec 30, 2011 16:11:52 GMT -5
YEA I know he would've ended back in Mystic Falls eventually but Stefan messed up when he tried to seduce Rebekah lol and btw HEY SLASH GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE =)
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