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Post by Slash on Jan 12, 2012 13:13:13 GMT -5
I don't think it's exactly fair to blame Stefan for not helping Elena protect Jeremy (might be an unpopular opinion) with all that's going on and his state of mind currently. Stefan is in hiding from Klaus (might change tonight) and to even show up to protect Jeremy is a liability to whatever grand scheme Stefan, Katherine and the Dead Witches have going on. It's a plan they're willing to go through with, even if it means bringing Klaus and his Hybrids down on the friends in MF and even Damon, which I'm more than sure both Stefan & Katherine knew would happen when they started the plan and who they just blew a chance in killing Klaus to protect. I think they're ready for collateral in some aspects and are even willing to sit by and watch/let things happen. Now you have Damon pulled into the fold with the plan and he's not supposed to get Elena involved either (I think he'll botch this though in both regards of sitting by if need be and getting Elena involved). But as a few others have pointed out, this is the other half of Stefan that Elena was oblivious to. The other half of Stefan that was mentioned to her and that Damon tried to shield her from but she said "No, it's Stefan, I'm OK with it, I love him, etc.". Not carrying that same opinion anymore, are you Elena? The other Stefan is in there but what we've mentioned in the other Stefan thread, neither Stefan likes the other at all and really the only common quality that overlaps between the 2 is their love for Damon. This plan to steal coffins is as bad as the ritual plan!! People will be endangered and people will die! I look at them the same. Jer almost died! Hell Alaric almost did too! I didn't expect Stefan to come out of hiding but i did expect him to try and figure something out when it came to the coffins or not steal them at ALL! Stupidest plan on the planet if you ask me. Even dumber than Elena's ritual plan! He just said "it's not my problem". There was nothing but coldness. That's my problem and that is why I'm defending Elena! Well we're to assume that this is actually Katherine's plan. I do agree that plan-wise, Stefan & Elena's 'Sacrifice' plan wasn't great at all as they solely focused on saving Elena, letting the sacrifice go through to risk Klaus even having power and the loss of life of 2 people to protect Elena (remember, this is Stefan & Elena who get on Damon's back about killing yet they showed no concern for the 2 other lives involved). It just seems like the gang gets too entrenched with the idea of "As Long As Klaus Is Dead/Dies" and it really makes some of the stuff going on cringe-worthy to me. Obviously, there is a bigger picture to all this to even run the risk but if the Witches are involved, they seem to think something will work. Still, I do agree it's a pretty damn stupid plan when Klaus was ready to go on about his business. There was no breathing room for the gang with what Stefan did. |
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Post by Tara on Jan 12, 2012 13:59:07 GMT -5
Hi guys!  I didn't want to post in her originally, but I decided to anyway. I know we'll never see things the same way, but hopefully you guys can kind of see it from my point of view. I've read yours, I see what you're saying. But I see the Stefan thing differently. First, I'm not just mad at Elena, I'm mad at Damon too. Just putting that out there, because I'm not just blaming Elena. I saw on here that Klaus wanted Stefan anyway. While I see how thats probably true, I don't think Stefan would have just made the deal with Klaus without Damon or Elena being in trouble. I know Stefan hasn't been great to Elena lately. But he did it for a reason. At first when Damon and Elena were tracking him, he had to get them to stop. Klaus said he'd take care of it if Stefan didn't. He wanted to keep them safe. So he did what he had to. After he was compelled, I really can't blame him for anything he said. He wasn't in control. I saw little glipses of the old Stefan. I still sort of saw the love for Elena. But he wasn't hurting anyone on purpose. After he got freed, I know stealing the coffins wasn't the greatest idea. I could change my mind on that depending on where it goes. But I feel like he's being cold to everyone for a reason. If he has to be cold for a while to deal with Klaus(and he actually gets rid of him), I think it was worth it. I don't think Stefan has ever been abusive. I know it sounds like I'm saying Stefans perfect, I know he's not. He has faults just like the rest of them, but I think after Damon found out what really happened, that kiss was just a slap in the face. I probably wouldn't have been as mad if it had happened without them knowing the truth, but they both knew to a degree. Which is where my problem is with both of them. I think they're making Elena seem like she can't be without a guy. Which bugs me. But I felt she knew Stefan well enough to still have hope for him. The changes within all the characters this season has really kind of bugged me. Because it's like S1&2 never happened. I don't know if I've really explained myself right in this. I'm mad at the lack of trust and care for Stefan. After all this, I just feel it was a huge slap. I'm kind of mad over the Jeremy thing too. Between the kiss and Jeremy, my love for Elena kind of dropped. I don't think Elena is thinking a lot through. And I know the triangle is a huge part, but I was hoping it'd be more feelings than another relationship. I know Elena isn't as bad as Katherine, but I do feel like she shouldn't be making the same mistake. She knows how it went the first time, and it's just going to make things between Stefan and Damon worse probably. I feel like the whole 1st and 2nd season she seemed to know not go go this route, and now it's all out the window. I was hoping thir love, and the love between Stefan and Damon would be enough for it not to happen. Hopefully you guys can kind of see where I'm coming from. I know we'll probably never agree. But hopefully you can kind of see how I see it. |
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Bri
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Post by Bri on Jan 12, 2012 14:23:08 GMT -5
Warning I haven't read all post just the answering the topic question  Being kinda lazy See my problem with Elena is that I don't understand her,so my frustration with her comes across as hate. I think the writers are so focus on developing the other characters that they give very little insight on how Elena is feeling. So when we have Elena telling Stefan this and that, but turns around and does something the complete opposite frustrates me. I am not saying out her characters hasn't done this, but as a audience viewer I always have to speculate or come up with my explanations for Elena actions. When I do manage to get out my SE bubble, I have expressed sympathy for Elena several times and understood why she is now "close" to Damon. Do I like it, not very much, but I understand. I will add more later, leaving work. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 14:50:21 GMT -5
When it comes to the kiss, I will admit that it was definitely a selfish move by Damon. But I can't really bring myself to feel bad for Stefan after the way he's treated Elena... After he practically told her that he doesn't give a flying %^&$ if her brother dies. It's hard for me to feel bad for Stefan because Stefan at this point cares more about revenge than anything else, so them kissing is nothing compared to what he's doing to them! Putting their very lives in danger... I consider Stefan betraying both of them as well, and his betrayal can possibly have very permanent and fatal consequences for the both Damon and Elena. If we're going to get up and arms about something. I think this is by far the more of the two evils.
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 14:59:34 GMT -5
Warning I haven't read all post just the answering the topic question Being kinda lazy See my problem with Elena is that I don't understand her,so my frustration with her comes across as hate. I think the writers are so focus on developing the other characters that they give very little insight on how Elena is feeling. So when we have Elena telling Stefan this and that, but turns around and does something the complete opposite frustrates me. I am not saying out her characters hasn't done this, but as a audience viewer I always have to speculate or come up with my explanations for Elena actions. When I do manage to get out my SE bubble, I have expressed sympathy for Elena several times and understood why she is now "close" to Damon. Do I like it, not very much, but I understand. I will add more later, leaving work. Honestly this season I think the writers have done a good job of letting us see where Elena is coming from. In the beginning she was hopeful and determined to find Stefan. She was in quite a bit of denial about what he was capable of and so forth. She even got a little reckless with her life and some others because she was desperate. (not her best moment.) She sought out Stefan and didn't give up on him. Until he forcefully told her to get lost. Even then she didn't give up Klaus takes Stefan back to MF and she saw him compelled to turn off his emotions. During which time he proceeded to taunt her (and I personally believe he didn't have to do this. Klaus may have compelled him to turn it off, but he chose to be a douche to her, and not feel anything towards her when he behaved quite differently towards Damon) Yet she still never gave up and tried to get Lexi to help out. It wasn't until that episode that she told Stefan that if he didn't want to lose her be better fight for them. For their relationship. She was getting tired, because Stefan could feel if only he wanted to. He just didn't want to. Last but not least Stefan gets his freedom from Klaus and chooses to skip town and put everyone in danger. First she thought he betrayed her but then she finds out he did it to save Damon. Meaning Stefan is perfectly capable of caring he's just choosing not to care about her! OUCH! How would that make any girl feel? I completely understand Elena and I can't even understand the frustration to be honest. I think it's been shown that she's tried and tried all that she could and nothing was enough. |
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orchid05
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Don't you have somewhere to be Damon?
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Post by orchid05 on Jan 12, 2012 17:05:41 GMT -5
Tara, Brigette    Well with all that's happened, Stefan couldn't just back out and let Klaus go free. Like he said, Klaus took everything from him piece by piece. I believe Klaus wanted to have his sidekick back to do the dirty work so everything was planned. How could he have ever gone back to where he was after all this chaos? Plus Klaus would have alwayd been around because of this hybrid thing. He needs her and he'll always be like a shadow around her. I agree with Slash about the Jeremy thing. Compared to Klaus, Katherine, the first villain if i may say so, was a little kitten. Their plans have always have failed untill now, because one of them have always been weak at some point. Something has to be done and if Stefan is in the best place to do it. I believe we're not seeing the big picture for now. He has his reasons IMO even if it isn't the best plan of all, we have to wait to see where he's heading with this. Obviously there's something bigger here with the witches involved. Of course, it must have been horrible for Elena. But to beat the villain you have to be the better villain.  Stefan is messed up, and he's holding to whatever he can, namely his rage towards Klaus and the whole revenge process. Any other emotions would be too painful, he just can't deal with it and maybe being on the path of revenge is kinda the first step for him to sort things out. Elena shouldn't have brainwashed Jeremy again imo, because he was finally starting to deal with things and i think he was about to embrace his family legacy. It should have been his choice. If anything the betrayal came from Elena and Damon, my love for him just dropped. |
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Post by Slash on Jan 12, 2012 17:06:16 GMT -5
When it comes to the kiss, I will admit that it was definitely a selfish move by Damon. But I can't really bring myself to feel bad for Stefan after the way he's treated Elena... After he practically told her that he doesn't give a flying %^&$ if her brother dies. It's hard for me to feel bad for Stefan because Stefan at this point cares more about revenge than anything else, so them kissing is nothing compared to what he's doing to them! Putting their very lives in danger... I consider Stefan betraying both of them as well, and his betrayal can possibly have very permanent and fatal consequences for the both Damon and Elena. If we're going to get up and arms about something. I think this is by far the more of the two evils. I think this is one of the times when it's not really 'selfish' of Damon. It's been roughly 3 months. He had Andie back in his life to keep his mind preoccupied amongst other things (searching out Stefan & Klaus along with cleaning up after them) and Stefan took her away from him. Even after that, Damon still didn't exactly jump on the chance with Elena. It's kind of slow burned behind all the Klaus stuff. You have Stefan showing he really only cares for Damon right now and blowing Elena completely off, even when she came to ask him for help in protecting her Brother. Stefan has taken every chance to let it be known that he's done with Elena and has even told Damon to protect her. Damon has held off this long and he said it's because he was feeling/would feel guilty if he'd make a move but after all this crap and Stefan bringing even more down on them, I don't see the gesture of a kiss being 'selfish' on his part. I think in the end though, it's Stefan & Katherine going through with this plan to bring more crap down on the gang because honestly, the only one they care about is Damon and they feel he'll be safe/alive when it's all over. Damon is stubborn in that way (how many times has he played Ding-Dong-Ditch at Death's front door?) and with that stubbornness, he'll see to protecting Elena & the others as best he can (as we saw him get Jeremy out of town and even got some blood to Alaric). When the dust settles, the casualties for the gang could be minimal in that regard if Damon is on his 'A' game. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 12, 2012 17:46:25 GMT -5
When it comes to the kiss, I will admit that it was definitely a selfish move by Damon. But I can't really bring myself to feel bad for Stefan after the way he's treated Elena... After he practically told her that he doesn't give a flying %^&$ if her brother dies. It's hard for me to feel bad for Stefan because Stefan at this point cares more about revenge than anything else, so them kissing is nothing compared to what he's doing to them! Putting their very lives in danger... I consider Stefan betraying both of them as well, and his betrayal can possibly have very permanent and fatal consequences for the both Damon and Elena. If we're going to get up and arms about something. I think this is by far the more of the two evils. I think this is one of the times when it's not really 'selfish' of Damon. It's been roughly 3 months. He had Andie back in his life to keep his mind preoccupied amongst other things (searching out Stefan & Klaus along with cleaning up after them) and Stefan took her away from him. Even after that, Damon still didn't exactly jump on the chance with Elena. It's kind of slow burned behind all the Klaus stuff. You have Stefan showing he really only cares for Damon right now and blowing Elena completely off, even when she came to ask him for help in protecting her Brother. Stefan has taken every chance to let it be known that he's done with Elena and has even told Damon to protect her. Damon has held off this long and he said it's because he was feeling/would feel guilty if he'd make a move but after all this crap and Stefan bringing even more down on them, I don't see the gesture of a kiss being 'selfish' on his part. I think in the end though, it's Stefan & Katherine going through with this plan to bring more crap down on the gang because honestly, the only one they care about is Damon and they feel he'll be safe/alive when it's all over. Damon is stubborn in that way (how many times has he played Ding-Dong-Ditch at Death's front door?) and with that stubbornness, he'll see to protecting Elena & the others as best he can (as we saw him get Jeremy out of town and even got some blood to Alaric). When the dust settles, the casualties for the gang could be minimal in that regard if Damon is on his 'A' game. I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!! I don't think Damon was selfish nor wrong for the kiss! Just because someone saves your life and this might sound heartless doesn't mean you owe him the love of your life esp if she loves you back!!! That is whack and horrible thinking. So Damon cant ever be with Elena because Stefan saved his life? So Damon cant ever have an issue with Stefan because Stefan saved his life? So Damon cant ever do anything that's not pro Stefan because Stefan saved his life? YET Stefan has asked Damon knowingly that he LOVES Elena and that Elena cares deeply about him to watch her, protect her for whom? Damon? Nah he cant risk his life for the girl he loves and has no chance with right. He has to risk his life for the girl he loves and has no chance with but keep her in one piece when his brother gets back in one piece! For his brother! I don't know sounds kinda unfair if you ask me. I just think after everything Damon has done and been through and hasn't done I think he deserves his chance. The show will explore two relationships. It will be wishy washy like every triangle show... It will drive us all insane until Elena chooses her destiny. I just don't think Elena will get in between the brothers. In the end the brothers will always love each other they just will know that they both had to meet Elena, protect Elena and be in Elena's life. Like I said Destiny. And although I think when Stefan was compelled he didn't have to be an ass to Elena since he wasn't really being an ass to anyone but her I don't really harbor ill feelings because he was compelled. So being an ass came easy and she was all wanting him to feel and he didn't wanna so he snapped out at her. But Stefan didn't have everything taken from him. Elena wasn't gone yet? What did he have taken? his humanity? His brother wasn't gone. I don't get that whole he took everything from me... He took time and he took your humanity but when it was all over YOU chose to be an ass and steal coffins. You chose revenge! He could have worked to get Elena back. He could have showed her some grand gesture. At this point she just let him go with Damon. Both would have forgiven him if he only had focused on that! No he focused on the ripper in him and took revenge. He chose that path! He is choosing that path! next episode he is still on that path choosing not to FIGHT for Elena! If he kills Klaus "kudos" good for him. I still cant think wow that was a great plan! Just like everything with the sacrifice went through and Elena lived but Jenna died! Then John died. I just cant be like well since it worked out everything is fine. Choices we make define us! They mold us! Stefan's choice no matter the outcome is a horrible choice that endangered everyone! You save your brother and Elena and then endanger them. Stupid! |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 12, 2012 17:48:38 GMT -5
And might I add that because i think Stefan is being an ASS right now does not mean I don't think he should be forgiven when he earns back his place in his brother and Elena's life. Like Damon being an ASS he had to be forgiven and work hard to prove he was changed! Stefan must do the same. Once he does i hope Elena will forgive him. I hope Damon will let everything go.
I'd be a hypocrite if I said if Stefan changes and wants forgiveness they cant forgive him! No they should just like Damon was!
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 17:49:15 GMT -5
Tara, Brigette Well with all that's happened, Stefan couldn't just back out and let Klaus go free. Like he said, Klaus took everything from him piece by piece. I believe Klaus wanted to have his sidekick back to do the dirty work so everything was planned. How could he have ever gone back to where he was after all this chaos? I'm sorry I've read this a lot when it comes to Stefan losing everything. What did he lose? The two most important people in his life did everything they could to try and help him and refused to turn their back on him. The only thing Stefan lost was his humanity and that was only for a few months not even the ten year agreement he made. If he wanted that back he could work to get it. Revenge is not the answer... and I doubt it will end well for him. The show would be a hypocrite if Stefan's big revenge scheme didn't blow up in his face and cause many to get hurt or even die in the process. Heck that's already happened in the first episode back. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 17:59:01 GMT -5
As far as hating Elena for her treatment of Rebekah to be honest I don't get that either  . Sure what she did to her wasn't right but I think it made complete sense given the situation she was put in. She stabbed her because she didn't want to risk anything going wrong with the plan, and hate him or not Rebekah is still Klaus's sister and she still loves her brother no matter what. That alone is enough to screw the entire plan to hell. She obviously didn't enjoy stabbing her in the back, but it needed to happen. She expressed a lot of remorse and it was clear that she felt bad about what she had to do, that's more than I can say for any other character. Not even taking into consideration that Rebekah wasn't exactly innocent or a "good" person either, she was bratty and petulant most of the time and even attacked Elena just because she saw a picture with her wearing "her" necklace. Sure she had a moment where we really got to see her vulnerable for the first time, but it doesn't automatically erase everything else she's done . Having Bonnie simply spell the room with a Barrier would have sufficed. Have Matt still show up and stay with her, turn on the radio and slow dance to some music. Granted Elena & Co. want to get rid of Klaus, but obviously, there was a family matter at hand and with Bekah being family, she had a say. Klaus, Mikael and then the surrounding questions about which one was responsible for her Mother's death. And being bratty, meh. Book Elena was bratty/self-centered. People front/develop and that's what Bekah did in her short time. She may have been bratty but with her last few interactions with Elena, it was a girl looking for a friend. As for some of the hate going towards Elena about the Bekah situation, she didn't have to tell Klaus that she told Bekah about their Mother. Elena doomed Bekah to be indefinitely staked and I think Klaus would go as far as to hide her away if he should get his hands on his other family members and awaken them because Bekah has this info. Elena could have just let Klaus wake Bekah up and deal with her on his own (having to deal with Stefan and a pissed off/suspicious Sister). Elena for no apparent reason threw away a good card from her hand. With all this. I just felt like she did what she had to do. I felt bad for Rebekah but her issues with her family and what not is not any of Elena's concern and certainly not her priority above her own life. She's looking out for herself and her family just like everyone else does. It was nothing personal.. How many times have vampires, whether they be originals or not have screwed Elena over? Seems like countless times. I can understand why they're not her priority especially above herself and her family. And of course she would tell Klaus about Rebekah knowing to ensure her safety and those around her. If Rebekah woke up she'd be vengeful and would probably try to kill her. Either way I'm not sure why Elena is all of a sudden supposed to put a vampire who attacked her above herself and her loved ones. It just wouldn't make sense to me. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 18:07:00 GMT -5
When it comes to the kiss, I will admit that it was definitely a selfish move by Damon. But I can't really bring myself to feel bad for Stefan after the way he's treated Elena... After he practically told her that he doesn't give a flying %^&$ if her brother dies. It's hard for me to feel bad for Stefan because Stefan at this point cares more about revenge than anything else, so them kissing is nothing compared to what he's doing to them! Putting their very lives in danger... I consider Stefan betraying both of them as well, and his betrayal can possibly have very permanent and fatal consequences for the both Damon and Elena. If we're going to get up and arms about something. I think this is by far the more of the two evils. I think this is one of the times when it's not really 'selfish' of Damon. It's been roughly 3 months. He had Andie back in his life to keep his mind preoccupied amongst other things (searching out Stefan & Klaus along with cleaning up after them) and Stefan took her away from him. Even after that, Damon still didn't exactly jump on the chance with Elena. It's kind of slow burned behind all the Klaus stuff. You have Stefan showing he really only cares for Damon right now and blowing Elena completely off, even when she came to ask him for help in protecting her Brother. Stefan has taken every chance to let it be known that he's done with Elena and has even told Damon to protect her. Damon has held off this long and he said it's because he was feeling/would feel guilty if he'd make a move but after all this crap and Stefan bringing even more down on them, I don't see the gesture of a kiss being 'selfish' on his part. I think in the end though, it's Stefan & Katherine going through with this plan to bring more crap down on the gang because honestly, the only one they care about is Damon and they feel he'll be safe/alive when it's all over. Damon is stubborn in that way (how many times has he played Ding-Dong-Ditch at Death's front door?) and with that stubbornness, he'll see to protecting Elena & the others as best he can (as we saw him get Jeremy out of town and even got some blood to Alaric). When the dust settles, the casualties for the gang could be minimal in that regard if Damon is on his 'A' game. Don't get me wrong as a DE fan, I'm not the least bit upset at Damon kissing Elena, I loved it. But putting my shipper glasses aside I don't consider it to be the "right" thing to do in that situation considering she and Stefan haven't really gotten any closure yet. Maybe selfish was not the right word to use, because as you've pointed out Damon has been quite selfless when it comes to Elena. He's put her and Stefan's feelings before his countless times in the past, but I guess he just needed know what if felt like to kiss her. |
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Bri
New Member
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Post by Bri on Jan 12, 2012 18:46:47 GMT -5
Warning I haven't read all post just the answering the topic question Being kinda lazy See my problem with Elena is that I don't understand her,so my frustration with her comes across as hate. I think the writers are so focus on developing the other characters that they give very little insight on how Elena is feeling. So when we have Elena telling Stefan this and that, but turns around and does something the complete opposite frustrates me. I am not saying out her characters hasn't done this, but as a audience viewer I always have to speculate or come up with my explanations for Elena actions. When I do manage to get out my SE bubble, I have expressed sympathy for Elena several times and understood why she is now "close" to Damon. Do I like it, not very much, but I understand. I will add more later, leaving work. Honestly this season I think the writers have done a good job of letting us see where Elena is coming from. In the beginning she was hopeful and determined to find Stefan. She was in quite a bit of denial about what he was capable of and so forth. She even got a little reckless with her life and some others because she was desperate. (not her best moment.) She sought out Stefan and didn't give up on him. Until he forcefully told her to get lost. Even then she didn't give up Klaus takes Stefan back to MF and she saw him compelled to turn off his emotions. During which time he proceeded to taunt her (and I personally believe he didn't have to do this. Klaus may have compelled him to turn it off, but he chose to be a douche to her, and not feel anything towards her when he behaved quite differently towards Damon) Yet she still never gave up and tried to get Lexi to help out. It wasn't until that episode that she told Stefan that if he didn't want to lose her be better fight for them. For their relationship. She was getting tired, because Stefan could feel if only he wanted to. He just didn't want to. Last but not least Stefan gets his freedom from Klaus and chooses to skip town and put everyone in danger. First she thought he betrayed her but then she finds out he did it to save Damon. Meaning Stefan is perfectly capable of caring he's just choosing not to care about her! OUCH! How would that make any girl feel? I completely understand Elena and I can't even understand the frustration to be honest. I think it's been shown that she's tried and tried all that she could and nothing was enough. You make some really great points. I have plenty of sympathy for Elena when it comes from losing her family to her seeing Stefan chose revenge over her all at the age of 18. I think Elena can be loving and strong willed, but she is also the lead character. Often times I find myself having a difficult time relating to her (which I often do with the lead character). I just cannot point out the reason what exactly, but some of her actions frustrate me. Yes Elena fought for Stefan, but it came off she wanted him to come back for her. Yes , it would have been romantic if he did, but he didn’t. Like her words, “Fight Stefan, you owe me that” At that point in time, did he really owe her that. IMO, not really. Plus I like the idea much better of Damon bringing back Stefan ‘s humanity than Elena. Like Elena is 2 years older than Jeremy at the least. I completely understand her wanting to protect basically the only immediate family she has left. But the choice she made to take away Jeremy’s free will was just ehhh to me. She took away his choice. I have already seen people bashing Stefan based on the spoilers because supposedly he threatens to take away Elena’s choice to when he feeds her his blood. Just from the general idea and not knowing what will happen in the episode, I don’t either any difference in these situations. I have from the beginning of the series stated that Elena has not been my favorite, but I do like her. I have never really said anything negative about her before last week’s episode. I think I was so far in denial that I didn’t want to realize the triangle, which I was open to when the show first started. Honestly, Stefan might have been compelled, but he wasn’t blind. I am sure he saw & heard all the things going on between Damon and Elena. He noticed how she was jealous when Damon was with Rebekah that night. Plus Elena has been telling Stefan for 2+ seasons that Stefan has nothing to worry about or only you Stefan. Ok some people can argue that Elena wasn’t aware of her feeling for Damon, but from personal experience words stick. I think Stefan was holding on to those words and so was I. So when I see Elena Plus Elena told him a few before he turned himself over to Klaus that she wanted a family, something neither Damon nor Stefan can give her. To me that is putting a clock on their relationship anyway. So taking all that into consideration plus the enormous guilt Stefan is feeling, I wouldn’t exactly run back to Elena either. Rambling ramble me....I guess looking at it I can say IMO they both were/are hurt and this is the best either can do to deal with their pain. When I read this, it really comes of a pro- Stefan reply. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 12, 2012 19:32:14 GMT -5
Honestly this season I think the writers have done a good job of letting us see where Elena is coming from. In the beginning she was hopeful and determined to find Stefan. She was in quite a bit of denial about what he was capable of and so forth. She even got a little reckless with her life and some others because she was desperate. (not her best moment.) She sought out Stefan and didn't give up on him. Until he forcefully told her to get lost. Even then she didn't give up Klaus takes Stefan back to MF and she saw him compelled to turn off his emotions. During which time he proceeded to taunt her (and I personally believe he didn't have to do this. Klaus may have compelled him to turn it off, but he chose to be a douche to her, and not feel anything towards her when he behaved quite differently towards Damon) Yet she still never gave up and tried to get Lexi to help out. It wasn't until that episode that she told Stefan that if he didn't want to lose her be better fight for them. For their relationship. She was getting tired, because Stefan could feel if only he wanted to. He just didn't want to. Last but not least Stefan gets his freedom from Klaus and chooses to skip town and put everyone in danger. First she thought he betrayed her but then she finds out he did it to save Damon. Meaning Stefan is perfectly capable of caring he's just choosing not to care about her! OUCH! How would that make any girl feel? I completely understand Elena and I can't even understand the frustration to be honest. I think it's been shown that she's tried and tried all that she could and nothing was enough. I have from the beginning of the series stated that Elena has not been my favorite, but I do like her. I have never really said anything negative about her before last week’s episode. I think I was so far in denial that I didn’t want to realize the triangle, which I was open to when the show first started. Honestly, Stefan might have been compelled, but he wasn’t blind. I am sure he saw & heard all the things going on between Damon and Elena. He noticed how she was jealous when Damon was with Rebekah that night. Plus Elena has been telling Stefan for 2+ seasons that Stefan has nothing to worry about or only you Stefan. Ok some people can argue that Elena wasn’t aware of her feeling for Damon, but from personal experience words stick. I think Stefan was holding on to those words and so was I. So when I see Elena Plus Elena told him a few before he turned himself over to Klaus that she wanted a family, something neither Damon nor Stefan can give her. To me that is putting a clock on their relationship anyway. So taking all that into consideration plus the enormous guilt Stefan is feeling, I wouldn’t exactly run back to Elena either. As far as the highlighted part, I can't say that these two situations are similar considering we don't even know why Stefan threatens to turn Elena. We know that she had Jeremy compelled because she wanted to give him a better chance in life and wanted to keep him safe. Technically it's wrong but she has good intentions. Stefan's intentions IMO for trying to turn her are still unknown so how can we say it's the same thing? It might not be, actually I'm fairly certain it won't be. There are shades of grey but I think you have to take into consideration the characters motives and intentions before judging the actions. Just because the actions are technically similar doesn't mean that they should be judged the same way. I feel like what Elena did to Jeremy was more along the shades of grey, technically not "right" but understandable. We still have yet to see why Stefan does what he does. As far as the rest of this post. Maybe it's because I'm a bit of a TV enthusiast but I actually always anticipate these things (such as everything Elena told Stefan) to be contradicted as the show goes on. When the characters make such bold claims like "It's always going to be Stefan." so early on in the series, especially when this show involves a love triangle, chances are this will be contradicted, because the characters have yet to under go any real development or growth, and when they do, chances are they most likely come to a different realization. The minute Elena uttered those words while others may have bought them at face value, I knew it was only a matter of time before they were contradicted. And yes, I do believe Elena meant these things when she said them. I don't think neither her nor Stefan could have anticipated some of the horrible turns their relationship took. Things happen and circumstances change. If I recall correctly Stefan also made some claims in early season 1 about not hurting her, and those have also been contradicted. Physically he hurt her (understandably under compulsion) but emotionally was all on him. So I can say neither one of them were able to hold on to their promises or early beliefs. As far as Stefan seeing her feelings for Damon blossoming, again circumstances. While he left her for Damon to protect and look after naturally things progressed. Elena was already attracted to Damon, but now circumstances forced them to build an deeper emotional bond. That can't really be helped, Damon has been her EVERYTHING since Stefan fell off the wagon. |
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Post by Tara on Jan 12, 2012 19:59:39 GMT -5
Tara, Brigette Well with all that's happened, Stefan couldn't just back out and let Klaus go free. Like he said, Klaus took everything from him piece by piece. I believe Klaus wanted to have his sidekick back to do the dirty work so everything was planned. How could he have ever gone back to where he was after all this chaos? I'm sorry I've read this a lot when it comes to Stefan losing everything. What did he lose? The two most important people in his life did everything they could to try and help him and refused to turn their back on him. The only thing Stefan lost was his humanity and that was only for a few months not even the ten year agreement he made. If he wanted that back he could work to get it. Revenge is not the answer... and I doubt it will end well for him. The show would be a hypocrite if Stefan's big revenge scheme didn't blow up in his face and cause many to get hurt or even die in the process. Heck that's already happened in the first episode back. He really did lose the life he was living. Everything he had built for himself over the years is gone. Also, he did lose Elena. He couldn't keep both of them safe while with Klaus, and try to keep Elena on his side. There was no way. His humanity is a big deal to him. He did lose a lot. |
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Stefan is messed up, and he's holding to whatever he can, namely his rage towards Klaus and the whole revenge process. Any other emotions would be too painful, he just can't deal with it and maybe being on the path of revenge is kinda the first step for him to sort things out.
. Sure what she did to her wasn't right but I think it made complete sense given the situation she was put in. She stabbed her because she didn't want to risk anything going wrong with the plan, and hate him or not Rebekah is still Klaus's sister and she still loves her brother no matter what. That alone is enough to screw the entire plan to hell. She obviously didn't enjoy stabbing her in the back, but it needed to happen. She expressed a lot of remorse and it was clear that she felt bad about what she had to do, that's more than I can say for any other character.
