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Post by Slash on May 9, 2012 22:13:29 GMT -5
So Stefan acting out of character because of extreme circumstances is unacceptable? But Damon acting the way he does because that is just who he is (pretty much your words) ... is acceptable? It is good to know that is how some people look at it. I obviously don't agree. I think all characters on this show have proven to be, in some cases, passive aggressive. If you like the character you are okay with it and if you don't you're not. That's how I look at it. I still stand by the fact that Stefan (given the circumstance) could have acted like a WAY bigger dick and well a couple passive aggressive comments is really in turn showing good restraint. If it were me in the same situation I would not been able to bite my tongue the way he must. What extreme circumstances? The ones he insisted upon? He was back and had a chance to pick up the pieces of his relationship with Elena but decided to pick up the shovel instead and dig a deeper hole. That's his own fault. His 'acting out of character' and being a dick wasn't needed in that regard. That's why I don't find it acceptable. While he was with Klaus? Fine and dandy. With people who care for him? Eh. It's not just the passive aggressive comments. It's the whole bout with Klaus that's so far removed from who he's been depicted to be that's so bothersome for me. EDIT: To amend the latter, not even sure how to phrase that or if it's entirely the deal. I've been going on and on about how I've hated the fixation by both Brothers on killing Klaus/the Originals this season. It's been their obsession, even when the Originals were minding their own so it's not entirely exclusive to Stefan as it's been something pissing me off with both Salvatores...and the Witches. On Stefan's part, it's the way he handled things. Leaving his friends to fend for themselves in the wake of his war, and then the whole Damon torture thing. They had to send Jeremy away just to get him out of the line of fire. |
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Post by Slash on May 9, 2012 22:19:21 GMT -5
Both? He's what he is because the Writers had no direction like most of the other crap this season (all these storylines that either didn't amount to anything/much). They tried to add something more to him and fell flat on their faces doing so, dragging his character down. They should have ran with the Ripper storyline and built more on how brutal he is/was, not simply hanging around with a snarky comment. That's what Damon does. And then they try (or should we say 'did') to bring him back to his 'normal' (lie) self by speeding through the whole Ripper detox in the matter of a week or two when we know it takes decades for that. They ruined a chance to see him and Damon get along/bond more with Damon helping him. A lot of characters have been mishandled this season, him and Caroline being the biggest WTF!?s for me (and Alaric to a degree as of late). I agree with the bolded I'm really hoping they bring in some new Writers for S4 cause S3 has just been funny and not in a good way. Plot holes, characters being all kinds of goofy, meaningless storylines, etc.. Some of the stuff they used could have been saved for later and fleshed out more. Instead, they shove it in over 2-3 episodes on top of all the other crap they've got going on and none of it ever feels satisfyingly finished in any capacity. It's one of the problems I have with the show: the pacing is all out of wack. Storylines don't ever feel like they're developed well enough or characters who are interesting and better served to help develop the main ones are offed before they mature. I'm looking forward to S4 more for the laughs in how much worse it can get story wise  |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 22:20:41 GMT -5
So Stefan acting out of character because of extreme circumstances is unacceptable? But Damon acting the way he does because that is just who he is (pretty much your words) ... is acceptable? It is good to know that is how some people look at it. I obviously don't agree. I think all characters on this show have proven to be, in some cases, passive aggressive. If you like the character you are okay with it and if you don't you're not. That's how I look at it. I still stand by the fact that Stefan (given the circumstance) could have acted like a WAY bigger dick and well a couple passive aggressive comments is really in turn showing good restraint. If it were me in the same situation I would not been able to bite my tongue the way he must. What extreme circumstances? The ones he insisted upon? He was back and had a chance to pick up the pieces of his relationship with Elena but decided to pick up the shovel instead and dig a deeper hole. That's his own fault. His 'acting out of character' and being a dick wasn't needed in that regard. That's why I don't find it acceptable. While he was with Klaus? Fine and dandy. With people who care for him? Eh. It's not just the passive aggressive comments. It's the whole bout with Klaus that's so far removed from who he's been depicted to be that's so bothersome for me. I disagree COMPLETELY, but honestly I don't see the point in debating it anymore. I will just say my first post says it all and I stand by that. Anymore of this will just go in circles. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 22:22:24 GMT -5
I'm really hoping they bring in some new Writers for S4 cause S3 has just been funny and not in a good way. Plot holes, characters being all kinds of goofy, meaningless storylines, etc.. Some of the stuff they used could have been saved for later and fleshed out more. Instead, they shove it in over 2-3 episodes on top of all the other crap they've got going on and none of it ever feels satisfyingly finished in any capacity. It's one of the problems I have with the show: the pacing is all out of wack. Storylines don't ever feel like they're developed well enough or characters who are interesting and better served to help develop the main ones are offed before they mature. I'm looking forward to S4 more for the laughs in how much worse it can get story wise Agreed! Let's leave it at that   |
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Post by Slash on May 9, 2012 22:25:29 GMT -5
I disagree COMPLETELY, but honestly I don't see the point in debating it anymore. I will just say my first post says it all and I stand by that. Anymore of this will just go in circles. I added a bit more but yes, lets agree to disagree on this matter  |
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Post by RachelBerrySexriot on May 10, 2012 1:21:57 GMT -5
Didn't people used to complain that Stefan was too nice? I do think there has been a noticeable difference in Stefan's behavior but there has been in all the characters. JP took over and all of a sudden TVD is a big contest to see who can be the biggest butthole.
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Post by Slash on May 10, 2012 4:31:14 GMT -5
Didn't people used to complain that Stefan was too nice? I do think there has been a noticeable difference in Stefan's behavior but there has been in all the characters. JP took over and all of a sudden TVD is a big contest to see who can be the biggest butthole. Too nice/boring. They chickened out on really driving home the point of him being worse and I was hoping that he'd end up being able to consolidate both personalities but the way it's all been done is laughable. Don't know what the hell JP is doing though. I loved Caroline in S2 but this season, I wouldn't be mad if they killed her. That's how bad it's gotten. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on May 10, 2012 7:24:41 GMT -5
Well, I for one never thought he was nice...boring, yeah, but not nice. I always felt he was a manipulative, deceitful, lying hypocrite if you want to know the truth and that was season one Stefan, now we've got a side of dick added to the mix. They certainly didn't improve his appeal.
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Post by Slash on May 10, 2012 7:30:28 GMT -5
Well, I for one never thought he was nice...boring, yeah, but not nice. I always felt he was a manipulative, deceitful, lying hypocrite if you want to know the truth and that was season one Stefan, now we've got a side of dick added to the mix. They certainly didn't improve his appeal. I thought he was too nice at first and didn't think of him as manipulative till the "as long as you'll protect her" stuff. That's when it struck me. He was giving his Brother a pass on all the Elena stuff up until that point because Damon was helping protect Elena and doing a lot of the work (planning, tough calls, etc.). It was just a matter of him and Elena (who I also think is manipulative as hell) keeping Damon reeled in just enough (getting him to not kill someone in a plan for instance). |
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Post by Doppelgänger on May 10, 2012 7:49:41 GMT -5
He admitted he didn't care if he hurt Damon by his actions. He admitted he purposely lied to Damon. That's not the way 'nice' people do things. He even manipulated it so Damon turned for gosh sakes and he knew he didn't want to turn, but why did he do it? So he could have his brother around. He never thought or cared about Damon's wishes in that. I mean these are just very basic examples. Yet he'll be the first one to condemn Damon if he does any of those things and acts like Damon is so much worse than he is, even now. I struggle to like the guy because he just isn't likable when he acts like he's so 'good' and 'righteous,' and his brother is horrible for doing nothing worse than he ever did. If he'd just admit that someday, it would go a long way with me.
I wish I had my LONG list of all the stuff Stefan did that was a lie/omission/manipulation because it was impressive, but unfortunately lost now and I don't care enough to rebuild it especially considering I don't think I changed one Stefan lovers mind even with it. It always seems to go back to a, "Yeah, but Damon did this/Damon did that..." argument as if what Damon does negates what Stefan does so he gets a pass. I never did understand that way of thinking. Damon's responsible for his own crap and so is Stefan.
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Post by Slash on May 10, 2012 10:51:16 GMT -5
I've been looking at it lately as him taking shots at Damon as a means to project his own faults/flaws/problems onto the other constant in his life. He goes on about how Damon is a monster, etc. when we know he's been hiding a piece of himself. I think him calling out Damon on these things is just him putting up his own shield. Damon takes the abuse so he sees it as something 'fine' to do to his Brother. Stefan puts some hate towards Damon at times, and other times, it's been going towards Klaus.
He's been saying he's got a handle on the Ripper now but I highly doubt that. If he can get past his self-loathing/pity state, then maybe I'll believe that. If he has a handle on the Ripper, I want to see a personality going forward that's part 'good' Stefan, and part Ripper. Not one extreme or the other. I want to see a Stefan that also will support his Brother more than he has been doing (the tearing down that he's not good enough for Elena needs to stop).
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Post by Doppelgänger on May 10, 2012 12:03:31 GMT -5
Yeah I also think he's projecting alot of his stuff onto Damon, same as you do, but contrast the two brothers. Damon tells Elena that he doesn't deserve her but his brother does and Stefan tells her that Damon isn't good enough for her, than throws in that neither of them are, then he makes sure and says it to Damon too with, "She's sure as hell alot better off without you." Really Stefan? Was that necessary?
He so rarely has anything good to say about Damon and there's these times they seem to be getting along and Stefan will say some cutting thing and Damon's face just literally falls. It hurts him. Those are the times Stefan really ticks me off. Damon's crappy self esteem comes alot from the people in his life that always put him down, his Dad and his brother, too, even right down to not wanting people to know when he does something good because then they might expect it and he's sure he's going to let them down because everyone always tells him he does, he fails, he's not good enough.
But anyway, that's a Damon discussion, not Stefan, but Stefan does not help. He's certainly not a loving brother to Damon and he doesn't try to make things better between them.
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Post by RachelBerrySexriot on May 10, 2012 12:09:07 GMT -5
Didn't people used to complain that Stefan was too nice? I do think there has been a noticeable difference in Stefan's behavior but there has been in all the characters. JP took over and all of a sudden TVD is a big contest to see who can be the biggest butthole. Too nice/boring. They chickened out on really driving home the point of him being worse and I was hoping that he'd end up being able to consolidate both personalities but the way it's all been done is laughable. Don't know what the hell JP is doing though. I loved Caroline in S2 but this season, I wouldn't be mad if they killed her. That's how bad it's gotten. THIS. The Stefan storyline was kind of disappointing. Instead of having him actually running around the countryside ripping people up he's in mystic falls getting into it with teenage girls. There are three sets of characters. The book characters, the show characters, and JP's awful version of the show characters. I used to adore Caroline and Damon, now not so much. Katherine has remained my favorite character probably, only because she is off screen. |
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Post by Slash on May 10, 2012 13:52:46 GMT -5
Too nice/boring. They chickened out on really driving home the point of him being worse and I was hoping that he'd end up being able to consolidate both personalities but the way it's all been done is laughable. Don't know what the hell JP is doing though. I loved Caroline in S2 but this season, I wouldn't be mad if they killed her. That's how bad it's gotten. THIS. The Stefan storyline was kind of disappointing. Instead of having him actually running around the countryside ripping people up he's in mystic falls getting into it with teenage girls. There are three sets of characters. The book characters, the show characters, and JP's awful version of the show characters. I used to adore Caroline and Damon, now not so much. Katherine has remained my favorite character probably, only because she is off screen. Katherine was saved solely because of that reason She supposedly planted the idea of getting even in Stefan's mind and then she runs off while he's messing things up. I can't stand Caroline now. Bonnie is getting there, Tyler has fallen off as well and I used to hate Matt but this season, he's been fine in my book. Jeremy is kind of the same. Damon...he either hooks up with Elena or doesn't. If he doesn't, move on. I'm tired of him pining for her for 3 seasons now. That's my big gripe with him. The Ripper is one of the biggest disappointments this season (along with Hybrids, the Original parents, and so on). When we first saw him after turning, he was just feeding just for the hell of it. Then we see him in 1920 and he's got more of a 'party' attitude about him with playful games. Why the change? They keep dropping these 'hints' like they want to do something with him (when he first turned, the first kills of his we saw this season, the biting straight through the neck) and then they just leave it like he's not really any worse than any other Vampire. If he was only a story to Klaus (and they never met in the 1920s where Klaus was just looking to get a friend back. Mr. Lonely...-_-) and Klaus 'released' the Ripper, I would have loved to have seen Stefan run off and wreck havoc, completely outside of Klaus' control. Maybe even such a frenzy that makes Stefan immune to compulsion to spice things up. But the show doesn't know what the hell it wants to do with Vampires. Some get special abilities like Sage/Lexi or Caroline who has super, super control/handle on things, can beat a Vampire 15x her age (hell, 10 of them even) and can get school events handled before a mani, but then we get these things like Damon & the crows that go no where. In the books, Vampires have quite the vast array of skills and I think the show would have been interesting if they would have run with that. If Stefan's was the Ripper persona and Klaus bit off more than he could chew (not this whole Vengeance thing they had afterwards), that would have been a much better direction for Stefan IMO, especially if Klaus had to go and get Damon to bring his Brother in. Stefan's depiction of the Ripper is too tame for the name =\ I really do hope that they bring in someone new for Stefan as a love interest if things don't work out with Elena right now. I want to see him outside of the Elena/Ripper messes and with someone new. Someone that would bring out a different side of him or actually help him get a handle on things. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on May 14, 2012 17:38:49 GMT -5
Congratulations Stefan you've been trying for three seasons now to kill off Elena and you finally succeeded. It goes all the way back to when you squeezed your eyes shut and let Klaus take her to be sacrificed. Good thing Damon was around, eh? Now this time Damon was out of town and the one thing you were back there in MF to do you FAILED to do.  You are a giant FAIL! It should have been the default that Damon stays with Elena because Damon would have died before he'd have let her die if he could prevent it. Did it not occur to Stefan that she was going to drown before he could get back there? Newsflash, humans can't breathe underwater.  |
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