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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 16, 2014 7:29:41 GMT -5
Some SE's take the whole love 'changing' a person as if it's some terrible bad thing. Andie gave a speech to Damon in 2x13 (if I'm not mistaken on the ep) about this aspect. It's not some bizarre out of the realm thing that being in a relationship makes you go through changes personality or otherwise. Certainly if you were a bit depressed, withdrawn, finding someone you truly love to spend time with makes you respond in completely different way, you find yourself being more happy, outgoing etc. But this is fans trying to imprint 'real life' values onto these relationships, a show about vampires. This is fantasy, these characters are morally grey. This isn't sesame street trying to teach you lessons. Still don't get why fans bother with vampire shows if all they're going to do is complain about said vampires being vampires. Exactly! So they dumbed them down to keep that part of the audience and what we got was Elena telling Damon to 'be a better man,' which I hated, by the way. I used to yell at her on my TV about that one...lol I was so glad when he called her on it finally and she stopped that nonsense. For me the show could have been a lot better had they not been so afraid of just letting them behave like vampires. There would have still been the moral struggle because that's the crux of the agony of being a vampire. They have to eat what they once were, what they once loved and become outcasts from the very society that they were a part of. I mean don't make a vampire show if you want to present it as any other everyday bunch of teens who just happen not to get old. That's just lame. Twilight was lame and I blame it all on that cause we wound up with a huge group of Twihards who then loved Stefan cause he resembled Edward in his looks and manner but he hardly resembled a vampire as we know them. But then look who the most popular character on the show is? That should have told the writers something. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 23, 2014 9:24:12 GMT -5
I wasn't sure where to put this but given the strong views in here, views that continue to be perpetrated in the TVD fandom I decided to put it here because mainly it is Stelena fans who keep these notions about Damon up and alive in the fandom. I think this girl does an excellent job of disputing them. She mentions two of my favorite Delena scenes as being called 'abusive' by the 'other side' and it just makes me laugh to even think that these people are serious about that...I LOVED those scenes because it showed how fiercely Damon would defend her and no, he'd never really hurt her. The point was for her to realize how serious he was about protecting her, get it? He was protecting her! How they can turn around and say he was abusing her makes zero sense to me.
Separating Fact from Fanon: Delena and Damon vs fanon
by: profounddelena
Fanon: A fan derived notion or idea that actually becomes canon in their minds without any prior proof or confirmation.
Canon: Something that is rooted in the show. Something that has been confirmed through either the actors or directors and happened on the show.
Lately, a lot of people in the TVDFandom have gotten those two terms confused or have ignored their true meaning. Either way, their skewed version of things is most often fanon. A result of them either being pressed over their ship not happening *cough Stelena cough* or Damon haters who now look for any iota of information with which to press hate on him.
While this post is merely an examination of the fanon and canon assertions of Delena, I will also delve briefly, where appropriate, the rumors that surround Damon within the fandon.
Delena is abusive.
By far one of the most ridiculous and ludicrous theories, but not by a long shot the last. The notion that Damon is somehow abusive to Elena, as if any bone in his body ever lay a finger on her, as if Damon would ever be capable of consciously hurting Elena.
As if he would ever become so enraged that he would bite or hit her.
As if-
Damon is not abusive.
He can be rough when trying to protect her and make her see the logical, smart path she should travel on, but never abusive, never going above and beyond what he should. He is someone who loves fiercely, who protects those he loves, and when those people react the opposite of what he wants, he will resort to drastic measures to get them to fall in line.
Case in point: Elena getting busted with Elijah. This seems to be one of the fandom’s strongest and most often used example of how Delena is abusive, when Damon grabbed her arm and threatened to “break it” if she did not go with him.
Beyond the ridiculous assumption that he would actually do that in all seriousness, would you rather have Damon left Elena there to fend for herself? Would you rather have had him “respect” her wishes and have her die and leave her brother and friends behind?
No.
I didn’t think so.
Another example that is often used is when Damon forcibly stops Elena from entering the tomb where Stefan was trapped. Elena was running into a situation half-cocked like she normally does, without fear of the potential ramifications it would have on her.
She was running into a situation that quickly and probably become deadly if Katherine suddenly turned on her. She would be trapped in the tomb and even though you can argue that Stefan would have been there to help her, you cannot fault Damon for wanting to make sure she was spared from being caught like his brother.
Yes he grabbed Elena.
Yes he held her while she struggled.
Did he do it for her common good?
Yes.
Did he do it to stop her from making a stupid decision?
Yes.
Would he figure out a way to rescue Stefan and knew that before Elena?
Yes.
So the assertion that Delena is abusive is fanon.
Delena is toxic
"Listen to us. This is toxic. We are in a toxic relationship, Elena!"
This is actually one of those theories spurted by some of the fandom that is actually backed up by some canon evidence. Yes, Damon and Elena were reaching the point in their relationship where their relationship was becoming unstable, it was becoming a situation where Elena was beginning to sacrifice her morals and values to stay with him.
Willing to overlook the impulsive way in which he snapped whenever he thought that she wronged him. It was a similar pattern that had repeated itself with them even before they were officially “together.”
The truth is they WERE becoming toxic—and Elena recognized it. THAT is why she broke up with him an episode later, saying that they needed to work on their separate issues so that they could come back together stronger for it.
By doing this, she removed the toxicity from the relationship. When they came back together, Damon was at a point in his life and love for her when he was “holding it together the best he could for her” something that was obviously not the case when she ended the relationship.
So the claim that Delena is toxic is both canon…and fanon.
Damon “stole” Elena from Stefan.
As if Elena is somehow incapable of making her own decisions—as if she is stupid enough to be “stolen” from. As if she would ever allow herself to be “stolen” by Damon. Elena loves Damon. She was not stolen from Stefan, she merely moved on from a relationship that eventually ran its course and ended.
What was she supposed to do? Sit around and wait a century for she and Stefan to maybe work it out? No.
Damon never stole Elena. Not once. In fact, if I recall correctly, Damon was the one that encouraged her relationship with his brother on at least two occasions, once when he compelled her to forget his love:
"And it’s because I love you that I can’t be selfish with you. Why you can’t know this. I don’t deserve you, but my brother does."
And again right before the Stelena breakup
"This rough patch that you two are going through, it’s not what you think."
Damon would never steal Elena from Stefan because, for one, his self-esteem was so shot to hell that he never even believed he was worthy of her love until right this current season. The fact that Elena, on some cosmic level chose him, was astounding to him and something that he never really wrapped his brain around until after his “death.”
Do not insult the intelligence of us and of the TVDFamily by insinuating that Elena is some prize that was stolen from Stefan by the evil EVIL Damon.
The assertion that Damon stole Elena from Stefan is Fanon.
Delena is all about sex
Well, I for one am a HUGE fan of their love scenes, but apparently not all people are? Mainly those who think that their relationship consists solely of their sexual encounters, who think that the only way Delena can love each other is by having sex every day and night.
JUST NO.
Do these people conveniently forget that Damon and Elena had a relationship BEFORE they began dating? Do these people forget that there was at least a three year span where they were close friends and nothing even remotely sexual existed between them?
Or how about the moments where Damon possesses an incredible amount of understanding and comfort when talking to Elena and helping her through something bad.
-When Bonnie died, he was there for her.
-When Jeremy died, he eased her pain by taking her emotions away.
-He took her on a road trip to get to know her better.
-All the times he held her hand.
-All the times that even just a single look could be enough communication between them.
The idea that Delena is about sex is Fanon.
Elena changed after she began dating Damon
This is the one I laugh at. Besides the blatant stupidity of it, do people honestly expect Elena to stay the exact same person throughout the course of the show? That would not be good writing. That would be dull and mundane and horrible, to be honest.
She has not changed as much as people like to believe. She has not compromised her core values and her uncanny ability to forgive and to be a supportive friend and sister. She has not turned into a robot version of her former self.
The notion that Elena changed after Damon is Fanon.
Damon is a r@pist
This is one that I honestly get infuriated over because it is an insult to real survivors of ****. The idea that Damon could have “r@ped” Caroline is something that has never ONCE been confirmed by a writer or the creator of the show. NOT ONCE. But in lieu of that, people have taken it upon themselves to examine the show and take circumstances out of context and create a scenario in their minds for the sole purpose of creating more excuses to hate Damon.
No.
Just no.
Damon never r@ped Caroline. Caroline hopped in his bed the second she saw him and what he did the next morning was never something like that.
Don’t you think that if Damon r@ped Caroline, that would be something that Julie Plec or Caroline Dries would confirm?
Elena’s mourning of Damon was ridiculous
I’m sorry, but what exactly do you think Elena was supposed to do when the love of her life, her SOULMATE died? Go on her merry way and act like her life was just peachy when she was in agony every single second of every day? Do you expect her to brush his death off because it’s just Damon to you, right?
Elena loves with a passion that consumes her.
She was not prepared to lose Damon because that was not part of the plan. She died with him to avoid this and it still happened and she wasn’t with him. Elena mourning Damon is exactly what she should have done.
The idea that Elena’s mourning of Damon was ridiculous is IDIOTIC.
Delena is fan-service.
In the words of Julie Plec: “blah, blah, blah.” When you ever come across a Stelena or Bamon centered account, you can almost be sure to be informed that the ship of Delena is “fan-service, a method of giving fans what they want while also ignoring the development of the show.
Well.
We are lucky because what we have always dreamed of for our ship also happens to fit into the story of the show.
-Elena moving on from Stefan was not fan-service.
-Elena loving Damon is not fan-service.
-Elena calling Damon her soulmate is not fan-service.
(The only people that called Stelena soulmates, was the Stelena fandom and the writers. Never once did Elena actually call him that)
-The Delena rain kiss was not fanservice.
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Post by vampirelust on Jan 2, 2015 15:38:37 GMT -5
The fact Stefan actually did abuse Elena, in a really terrible way is often completely ignored, or mitigated because Stefan showed his remorse for it.
Stefan was not even doing this to Elena to protect her, it was all about him and stupid pride. Not very gallant or heroic in my book.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 2, 2015 22:13:22 GMT -5
The fact Stefan actually did abuse Elena, in a really terrible way is often completely ignored, or mitigated because Stefan showed his remorse for it. Stefan was not even doing this to Elena to protect her, it was all about him and stupid pride. Not very gallant or heroic in my book. What remorse? Stefan only admitted that he went 'too far.' It wasn't an apology in my book. The fact that Stefan fans pretend it never happened and that he didn't treat her like crap to the point that she felt like a 'broken toy' is what astounds me. Yet they will call Damon every name in the book. It's total hypocrisy. At least Delena/Damon fans know Damon isn't perfect and don't try to claim he is. The whole 'good brother' argument is a lie. Damon and Stefan are a lot more alike than they are different. Stefan is not any more 'good.' Damon is not any more 'bad.' They have both felt remorse over the things they've done (the pregnant woman that the Damon killed and the Stelenas conveniently forgot). Just because Damon doesn't feel sorry for himself, whine and write tons of journals about his pathetic life doesn't mean he feels no remorse. So what is the difference between them other than personality behaviors that differ? They've both killed innocents. They've both felt remorse for it. Calling Stefan a hero flies in the face of everything a hero is supposed to be and I think that is what irks me the most is the lie that Stefan is somehow heroic and good when he clearly isn't. He's no better than anyone else in this show. |
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Post by Somerhaldered on Jan 8, 2015 22:59:26 GMT -5
So with this hiatus, I've taken to re-watching season 1. I just started E6 and it brings me back to when Elena was confused about Liam and she asked Stefan how he knew when to tell her. He claimed it was simple "I loved you, I wanted you to know everything". What a crock of sh*t!
Elena starts noticing things aren't on the up and up (E4 and E5) and confronts Stefan about it. He gives in and tells her. I'm sure he had feelings for her and he didn't want to lie about it anymore, but he basically had no choice. No way he could have loved her yet, they knew each other for a hot 3 weeks.
Love how they write things to serve the current purpose.
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Post by missmystic on Jan 9, 2015 9:21:36 GMT -5
So with this hiatus, I've taken to re-watching season 1. I just started E6 and it brings me back to when Elena was confused about Liam and she asked Stefan how he knew when to tell her. He claimed it was simple "I loved you, I wanted you to know everything". What a crock of sh*t! Elena starts noticing things aren't on the up and up (E4 and E5) and confronts Stefan about it. He gives in and tells her. I'm sure he had feelings for her and he didn't want to lie about it anymore, but he basically had no choice. No way he could have loved her yet, they knew each other for a hot 3 weeks. Love how they write things to serve the current purpose. I was totally thinking that too when he said that to her. I was like, "what? you told her because she guessed and freaked out and you were a bunny eating sap who couldn't compel her to forget! Not because you loved her" What a d*ck. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 9, 2015 9:28:51 GMT -5
So with this hiatus, I've taken to re-watching season 1. I just started E6 and it brings me back to when Elena was confused about Liam and she asked Stefan how he knew when to tell her. He claimed it was simple "I loved you, I wanted you to know everything". What a crock of sh*t! Elena starts noticing things aren't on the up and up (E4 and E5) and confronts Stefan about it. He gives in and tells her. I'm sure he had feelings for her and he didn't want to lie about it anymore, but he basically had no choice. No way he could have loved her yet, they knew each other for a hot 3 weeks. Love how they write things to serve the current purpose. I was totally thinking that too when he said that to her. I was like, "what? you told her because she guessed and freaked out and you were a bunny eating sap who couldn't compel her to forget! Not because you loved her" What a d*ck. Yeah I noticed that lie as well but we can just stack it on top of the rest of his lies. Stefan wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass. I think he said it to make her feel bad, frankly, Just one more guilt trip to add to the rest. Stefan sucks! |
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Post by Somerhaldered on Jan 9, 2015 22:52:38 GMT -5
Watching S1 Stelena...**YAWN**  They seriously had no fire or passion. They made love and all I could think about is how hot she is with Damon. Sure, I'm a tad bit biased, but I'm being partial while I watch and...well...they are BORING. He takes her to the 50's dance and he's all two stepping on the dance floor and doesn't want to dance, meanwhile Damon found a girl and is having a good time dancing. The entire beginning of their relationship is a lie and he slowly gives her bits and pieces of the truth (only when he gets caught or has to fess up) yet he still comes out smelling like roses. Damon takes her to Georgia and it's the first time I've seen her have a good time this season. She and Damon just have good chemistry - even before they were anything and all Stefan wants to do is talk about his feelings. **YAWN** |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 10, 2015 9:18:08 GMT -5
Watching S1 Stelena...**YAWN** They seriously had no fire or passion. They made love and all I could think about is how hot she is with Damon. Sure, I'm a tad bit biased, but I'm being partial while I watch and...well...they are BORING. He takes her to the 50's dance and he's all two stepping on the dance floor and doesn't want to dance, meanwhile Damon found a girl and is having a good time dancing. The entire beginning of their relationship is a lie and he slowly gives her bits and pieces of the truth (only when he gets caught or has to fess up) yet he still comes out smelling like roses. Damon takes her to Georgia and it's the first time I've seen her have a good time this season. She and Damon just have good chemistry - even before they were anything and all Stefan wants to do is talk about his feelings. **YAWN** Stelena having sex made me want to vomit. There was just something not right about it. It didn't help with the behind the scenes clip of Paul drooling on Nina...ewwwww |
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Post by Somerhaldered on Jan 10, 2015 10:25:10 GMT -5
I mean really! He is supposed to be a vampire - vamp sex is supposed to be epic. Of all the vamps I've seen between TVD and TO, he is by far the most uninteresting one. Ugh.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 19:04:45 GMT -5
Listening to some youtube playlists of TVD songs and I still find it odd why the writers chose Cut from Plumb of all songs to be played during SE's first sex scene. A song about not wanting to be afraid and self harm? It just doesn't make sense.
I mean this was in 1x10 where Stelena was the heavily focused couple of the triangle at that point and I'd find it odd if the writers had it in their head at that point in time to play a 'bad' song lyrical wise for SE's sex scene and leave a romantic/loving one for DE's sex scene especially since it would be some three seasons later before DE even had their first sex scene and the writers couldn't have been thinking that far ahead.
It's almost like the writers have always secretly hated SE or something lol |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 1, 2015 19:27:39 GMT -5
Listening to some youtube playlists of TVD songs and I still find it odd why the writers chose Cut from Plumb of all songs to be played during SE's first sex scene. A song about not wanting to be afraid and self harm? It just doesn't make sense.
I mean this was in 1x10 where Stelena was the heavily focused couple of the triangle at that point and I'd find it odd if the writers had it in their head at that point in time to play a 'bad' song lyrical wise for SE's sex scene and leave a romantic/loving one for DE's sex scene especially since it would be some three seasons later before DE even had their first sex scene and the writers couldn't have been thinking that far ahead.
It's almost like the writers have always secretly hated SE or something lol Well they could have had it decided from the books to end with Delena because the books did, in fact, end with Delena even though we thought they wouldn't. I mean what kind of journey is falling in love two episodes into the first season? Stelena had no journey at all...it started out there...the set up for the brother's girl scenario and they have carefully, almost meticulously, showed Damon's progression from villain to where he is now, being accepted by Elena and all her friends. Remember there was also the Caroline scene in one of those first episodes where Stefan tells her, "It's never gonna happen," and breaks her heart so for Stefan it may come full circle back to that happening after all and maybe Caroline will get her June wedding after all. I think it would be nice if Stefan wound up happy with someone other than Elena because he knows now how good Elena is for Damon and their brotherhood could survive through it all and be even stronger. In the books Stefan realized how good Elena was for Damon as well and he loved his brother. I never read the ghostwriter books so I don't know how it came around to a Delena ending with those but I do know that what I did read he was in a similar place of moving toward being willing to step aside for the greater good of his brother. So in the show Stefan's full acceptance of Delena would redeem Stefan in my mind and I've never been a fan of his but I do like how he has been since Delena happened and he has been learning to accept it. So now it's time for him to move on. I think Damon needs to know that he will be happy as well and probably won't feel fully happy himself until he knows his brother is. The more I think about it the more I feel like Caroline is pretty perfect for Stefan. He needs to be micromanaged to make sure he's in a good place and she is just the girl for the job! Her cheeriness lifts him out of the dark places his mind tends to go. I mean when you really look at it, it works. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 12:12:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure why so many Stelenas are taking that one moment of Stefan asking Elena to bring him back as some sign that Stelena is suddenly back on track again.
First off it's hilarious how anyone can even want Stelena back together after everything that's happened between other relationships with this character. All of Elena's proclamations of love to Damon, that no matter what she always finds herself coming back to him or Stefan with Caroline hinting that this love with her could 'become something greater' and then more recently his confession to Caroline and announcing to Elena that he's Caroline's emotional trigger.
It's like both characters in your ship have moved on, when do you draw the line. It's just getting ridiculous. Even more so I don't see how SE's can bash on Elena and talk about how Damon's ruined her or she's not the same Elena anymore and she's a witch with a B and all that, yet go goo goo gah gah over the smallest interactions with SE. If you hate Elena so much, why are you rooting for her to get back with Stefan anyways?
But back to the main point. I didn't even see Stefan telling Elena to bring him back as romantic. It wasn't said or done in a romantic way. Stefan didn't even say anything like, 'You're the only one who can get me back. Our love will bring me back.' or 'You know *insert SE scene* was a very special moment for me. It was when you and I *insert SE description*. That's my trigger. You just have to remind me.'
No it came off more as a request from a friend and served as an informant that he was indeed going to turn off his emotions. Or if he's faking it, to make Elena believe that he's turned it off so that his act will seem more believable to Caroline.
I think if anything Stefan's trigger is Damon. Of course Damon didn't interact with either Stefan or Elena that episode so it'd just feel out of left field for Damon's name to suddenly come out in the talk of bringing him back when they never mentioned a wink of him all episode.
But Damon's death is what caused Stefan to leave everyone in town, including Elena, and despite trying to leave everything behind; got a job as a mechanic to fix Damon's car. And he was on his last leg as he sat to himself with that speech about his brother before Damon showed up and we got that heartwarming reunion.
There's other instances throughout precious seasons as well that Stefan can easily let Elena walk off into danger/die but when it comes to Damon, he's tackling him headfirst in the ground before he can even walk into the sun.
On top of that Elena even told Damon in season 3 that it'd be the love of the brothers to bring Stefan back. Of course the writers sometimes don't stick with consistency so who knows what they'll do for Stefan's trigger.
Any scene that SE share is going to seem romantic to SE shippers that are still desperately clinging to hope for a comeback so this scene in particular wasn't any different. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Mar 15, 2015 12:23:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure why so many Stelenas are taking that one moment of Stefan asking Elena to bring him back as some sign that Stelena is suddenly back on track again.
First off it's hilarious how anyone can even want Stelena back together after everything that's happened between other relationships with this character. All of Elena's proclamations of love to Damon, that no matter what she always finds herself coming back to him or Stefan with Caroline hinting that this love with her could 'become something greater' and then more recently his confession to Caroline and announcing to Elena that he's Caroline's emotional trigger.
It's like both characters in your ship have moved on, when do you draw the line. It's just getting ridiculous. Even more so I don't see how SE's can bash on Elena and talk about how Damon's ruined her or she's not the same Elena anymore and she's a witch with a B and all that, yet go goo goo gah gah over the smallest interactions with SE. If you hate Elena so much, why are you rooting for her to get back with Stefan anyways?
But back to the main point. I didn't even see Stefan telling Elena to bring him back as romantic. It wasn't said or done in a romantic way. Stefan didn't even say anything like, 'You're the only one who can get me back. Our love will bring me back.' or 'You know *insert SE scene* was a very special moment for me. It was when you and I *insert SE description*. That's my trigger. You just have to remind me.'
No it came off more as a request from a friend and served as an informant that he was indeed going to turn off his emotions. Or if he's faking it, to make Elena believe that he's turned it off so that his act will seem more believable to Caroline.
I think if anything Stefan's trigger is Damon. Of course Damon didn't interact with either Stefan or Elena that episode so it'd just feel out of left field for Damon's name to suddenly come out in the talk of bringing him back when they never mentioned a wink of him all episode.
But Damon's death is what caused Stefan to leave everyone in town, including Elena, and despite trying to leave everything behind; got a job as a mechanic to fix Damon's car. And he was on his last leg as he sat to himself with that speech about his brother before Damon showed up and we got that heartwarming reunion.
There's other instances throughout precious seasons as well that Stefan can easily let Elena walk off into danger/die but when it comes to Damon, he's tackling him headfirst in the ground before he can even walk into the sun.
On top of that Elena even told Damon in season 3 that it'd be the love of the brothers to bring Stefan back. Of course the writers sometimes don't stick with consistency so who knows what they'll do for Stefan's trigger.
Any scene that SE share is going to seem romantic to SE shippers that are still desperately clinging to hope for a comeback so this scene in particular wasn't any different. I think it shows their desperation that despite the fact that while she still loved Stefan she fell IN LOVE with Damon and that love basically eclipsed everything else, even her compulsion to forget that love, that they would still want her to get back with Stefan. Poor Stefan is a rather pathetic fellow after all if that is the best that his fans can see for him in his future. I personally think he doesn't deserve Caroline who put her heart out only for him to crush it repeatedly and I'm not even a very big fan of Caroline...lol I'm less of a fan of Stefan, however.
I will say that if Elena went back to Stefan (without some trick that made her not herself...lol) then I would be done with Delena. I'm not as desperate as some of these Stelenas seem to be. I think a lot have moved on though and some even ship Steroline now. I think it's kind of like the Nian fans, only the truly delusional remain because letting go of their fantasy and facing reality is too hard of a task for them.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2015 10:31:08 GMT -5
Guess the writers couldn't help to throw one last bone to SE in these goodbye scenes. 'You knew me better than anyone.' It's laughable that they're still trying to ride that train.
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