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Post by Slash on Jan 17, 2012 22:12:24 GMT -5
Betraying, I am not sure I would use that word, but I see how it fits. I do get frustrated with Stefan. That bridge scene was hard to watch and I was upset with what he did and that he took her there of all places. I really like Elena and I think all this debating about her is making me over-analyze opinions that I am not even sure I am that passionate about  I don't think Stefan has "free will" necessarily. Not sure I have the energy to debate it, but I don't think it is complete free will. Just as Elena did not chose to develop feelings for Damon, Stefan did not choose to lose everything he loved. I know some don't agree, but I just think that he did not choose to be put in the situation where he had to sacrifice his life for his brother's life. He did not choose to become this damage person capable of the actions he has been capable of as of late. I just don't think that is "free will" In short, I just think the triangle, anticipation of the triangle and the unknown can bring out intensified emotions on both sides. I don't think 'free will' is the proper word/phrase to use for what Stefan did for Damon. He chose to save his Brother's life, despite his Brother wanting to end it and be out of the way but that's a natural instinct on Stefan's part, just as it is on Damon's to save Stefan. I do think it's kind of half-and-half for that scenario though: Stefan naturally wanted to save his Brother and 'chose' to deny his Brother's wishes and give up everything he had going to save him. It's all just 'natural' though: Stefan/Damon saving the other and Elena falling for both Brothers. She can *TRY* to deny/fight/ignore those feelings but if she's not 'choosing' to have those and it's just something that happened naturally over the time she's spent with Damon, you can't fault her. What Stefan needs to 'choose' is to get both of his personas in order. As for 'damaged person', I think Caroline, Rose, Lexi and maybe Elijah are the only long-term Vampires on the show that aren't damaged. Stefan, Damon, Katherine, Klaus and Bekah are all pretty damaged/messed up from situations they were put into. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2012 22:28:19 GMT -5
Betraying, I am not sure I would use that word, but I see how it fits. I do get frustrated with Stefan. That bridge scene was hard to watch and I was upset with what he did and that he took her there of all places. I really like Elena and I think all this debating about her is making me over-analyze opinions that I am not even sure I am that passionate about I don't think Stefan has "free will" necessarily. Not sure I have the energy to debate it, but I don't think it is complete free will. Just as Elena did not chose to develop feelings for Damon, Stefan did not choose to lose everything he loved. I know some don't agree, but I just think that he did not choose to be put in the situation where he had to sacrifice his life for his brother's life. He did not choose to become this damage person capable of the actions he has been capable of as of late. I just don't think that is "free will" In short, I just think the triangle, anticipation of the triangle and the unknown can bring out intensified emotions on both sides. I don't think 'free will' is the proper word/phrase to use for what Stefan did for Damon. He chose to save his Brother's life, despite his Brother wanting to end it and be out of the way but that's a natural instinct on Stefan's part, just as it is on Damon's to save Stefan. I do think it's kind of half-and-half for that scenario though: Stefan naturally wanted to save his Brother and 'chose' to deny his Brother's wishes and give up everything he had going to save him. It's all just 'natural' though: Stefan/Damon saving the other and Elena falling for both Brothers. She can *TRY* to deny/fight/ignore those feelings but if she's not 'choosing' to have those and it's just something that happened naturally over the time she's spent with Damon, you can't fault her. What Stefan needs to 'choose' is to get both of his personas in order. As for 'damaged person', I think Caroline, Rose, Lexi and maybe Elijah are the only long-term Vampires on the show that aren't damaged. Stefan, Damon, Katherine, Klaus and Bekah are all pretty damaged/messed up from situations they were put into. I agree with you.  |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 17, 2012 23:14:39 GMT -5
Just a question I have. or two? Lol Is Elena the only one doing things that you don't like? Regardless of whether or not Stefan is giving his love away to someone else is he not still also betraying her in one of the worst ways imagineable? I can understand not being happy about Elenas growing feelings for Damon, and I do understand that it will hurt Stefan (not that she can control how she feels anyway, nor do I think she'll regret it, but thats another debate), but I guess idk why it seems like Elena is getting the worst of it for her feelings while Stefan is doing arguably much worst to her right now, of his own free will might I add, and yet a lot of fans (no one here in particular) are falling over themselves to sympathize with him and criticize Elena harshly as if somehow shes to blame for all that is wrong with their relationship. Betraying, I am not sure I would use that word, but I see how it fits. I do get frustrated with Stefan. That bridge scene was hard to watch and I was upset with what he did and that he took her there of all places. I really like Elena and I think all this debating about her is making me over-analyze opinions that I am not even sure I am that passionate about I don't think Stefan has "free will" necessarily. Not sure I have the energy to debate it, but I don't think it is complete free will. Just as Elena did not chose to develop feelings for Damon, Stefan did not choose to lose everything he loved. I know some don't agree, but I just think that he did not choose to be put in the situation where he had to sacrifice his life for his brother's life. He did not choose to become this damage person capable of the actions he has been capable of as of late. I just don't think that is "free will" In short, I just think the triangle, anticipation of the triangle and the unknown can bring out intensified emotions on both sides. I guess I just see it differently. I think Stefan does have free will at this moment. IMO being damaged does not make him void of responsibility. That's like saying Damon being emotionally damaged by Katherine rejecting him makes him somewhat not responsible for all the things he's done in the past. For me it's simply not an excuse. No he didn't ask to be put in this position, but he was in it and he got out, and he made the decision to do something else instead of going back to the people who love him. Stefan is not another person, he's just choosing the easy way out, instead of dealing with the mess, he's avoiding the guilt and pain because he thinks he can't bare it. That's how I see it But aside from that, the reason I say he betrayed Elena, is because he used something he knew was one of her biggest fears, and one of the most tragic moments of her entire life to torture her, completely shattering her trust in the process. Stefan is the only person who would have known what that place represented for her. It's where her whole life started falling apart, where he rescued her, where she lost her parents so it holds some of her most painful memories. There's a reason he took her there, it was planned and calculated. I consider that an epic betrayal, coming from someone who's supposed to love her. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2012 0:56:42 GMT -5
Betraying, I am not sure I would use that word, but I see how it fits. I do get frustrated with Stefan. That bridge scene was hard to watch and I was upset with what he did and that he took her there of all places. I really like Elena and I think all this debating about her is making me over-analyze opinions that I am not even sure I am that passionate about I don't think Stefan has "free will" necessarily. Not sure I have the energy to debate it, but I don't think it is complete free will. Just as Elena did not chose to develop feelings for Damon, Stefan did not choose to lose everything he loved. I know some don't agree, but I just think that he did not choose to be put in the situation where he had to sacrifice his life for his brother's life. He did not choose to become this damage person capable of the actions he has been capable of as of late. I just don't think that is "free will" In short, I just think the triangle, anticipation of the triangle and the unknown can bring out intensified emotions on both sides. I don't think 'free will' is the proper word/phrase to use for what Stefan did for Damon. He chose to save his Brother's life, despite his Brother wanting to end it and be out of the way but that's a natural instinct on Stefan's part, just as it is on Damon's to save Stefan. I do think it's kind of half-and-half for that scenario though: Stefan naturally wanted to save his Brother and 'chose' to deny his Brother's wishes and give up everything he had going to save him. It's all just 'natural' though: Stefan/Damon saving the other and Elena falling for both Brothers. She can *TRY* to deny/fight/ignore those feelings but if she's not 'choosing' to have those and it's just something that happened naturally over the time she's spent with Damon, you can't fault her. What Stefan needs to 'choose' is to get both of his personas in order. As for 'damaged person', I think Caroline, Rose, Lexi and maybe Elijah are the only long-term Vampires on the show that aren't damaged. Stefan, Damon, Katherine, Klaus and Bekah are all pretty damaged/messed up from situations they were put into. Wow. Very well put! |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2012 11:16:02 GMT -5
I moved the Katherine/Damon posts out of this thread and into their own as it was getting to be two debates in here and it was unrelated to Elena hate so it's now got it's own thread in Debates.
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Post by LovingDamon4Ever on Jan 19, 2012 14:34:11 GMT -5
Looks around, not believing I am in the Elena Hate thread. How did this happen?  Oh, that's right....Elena is getting on my freaking nerves!!!   |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2012 16:54:01 GMT -5
Well we knew it was only a matter of time before the shoe was going to be on the other foot. Oh well, let's see how tonight goes. I think all the spoilers are messing with just about everyone's heads. |
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Post by Slash on Jan 19, 2012 17:01:57 GMT -5
Well we knew it was only a matter of time before the shoe was going to be on the other foot. Oh well, let's see how tonight goes. I think all the spoilers are messing with just about everyone's heads. I've read no spoilers so I'm good for tonight  And why are there 2 'TV' emoticons? |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2012 17:22:42 GMT -5
Well we knew it was only a matter of time before the shoe was going to be on the other foot. Oh well, let's see how tonight goes. I think all the spoilers are messing with just about everyone's heads. I've read no spoilers so I'm good for tonight And why are there 2 'TV' emoticons? ooops! |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 24, 2012 0:36:10 GMT -5
Vampire Diaries Producer Kevin Williamson Didn’t Want Fans to Hate Elena for Kissing Damon If your fan girl heart is still beating after witnessing the kiss that was two-and-a-half years in the making between Damon (Ian Somerhalder) and Elena Gilbert (Nina Dobrev) in Vampire Diaries Season 3, Episode 10, “The New Deal,” that’s probably because you waited a long time for it. There’s a reason the producers waited for that anticipation to build, Kevin Williamson tells Collider — and it wasn’t just to torture viewers! “We just had to wait for the audience to truly respond to the kiss. We have our Elena fans, who have been craving it, but those fans would also reject it, out of hand. There are people who want Stefan (Paul Wesley) and Elena forever, and they were going to reject the kiss, so it had to be an honest thing for Elena to do. We had to make it real for her, and we had to tiptoe towards it. If we hadn’t, you would have hated Elena.” Even if Stelena fans don’t agree with her choices, after witnessing all that Stefan put her through, it’s hard to argue that she didn’t deserve a little comfort. Of course, as we saw in Season 3, Episode 12, The Ties That Bind,” Stefan wasn’t thrilled about his brother and his ex kissing on the porch. But he’s not exactly girlfriend-ready at this point. Williamson says in theCollider interview, “if he can’t forgive himself, how can he ever expect forgiveness from a woman that loves him? He’s never going to be lovable again, in his eyes.” But Williamson wants audiences to give The Ripper the same chance they did his older bro: “We love Damon and, every week, Damon was killing someone new. When he killed Lexi, I hated him after that, and it was my idea. I knew it would turn the audience against him.” Williamson also has a suggestion for how the trio can reconcile: “It’s a great love story because everybody loves everybody. No matter how much they hate each other, everybody loves everybody. It’s a perfect three-way, if they would all just come together. If they could all get along, it would be a hot time.” Wow. Maybe not a prime time, TV-14 hot time, but we’ll leave that to the fanfic-ers. source: www.wetpaint.com/the-vampire-diaries/articles/vampire-diaries-producer-kevin-williamson-didnt-want-fans-to-hate-elena-for-kissing-damon?fb_pid=1327367572&utm_campaign=vrl&utm_medium=fnpg-vampire&utm_source=facebook.com |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 24, 2012 1:17:32 GMT -5
Why do they care if Stelenas accept it? Obviously they don't and won't so that was a waste of time. We don't accept SE either and that's just the way it's going to be, but we sat through 2.5 years of this crap, not for one little kiss! Ugh!
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 24, 2012 12:48:58 GMT -5
Why do they care if Stelenas accept it? Obviously they don't and won't so that was a waste of time. We don't accept SE either and that's just the way it's going to be, but we sat through 2.5 years of this crap, not for one little kiss! Ugh! They don't have to accept it but they can understand how it happened. The writers didn't want Elena to be hated on. They wrote it as if Elena shouldn't and that she owed Stefan nothing when she did it. To me the people who created these characters and wrote them are saying Elena had a right to do what she did then damn it she did! |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 24, 2012 19:58:33 GMT -5
I would rather see Elena fall for Damon on his own merits not well Stefan is being a jerk so NOW she can fall for him. All that does is make the SE fans have another excuse to not accept it. So, I don't really get why they think doing it that way actually works better.
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Post by Slash on Jan 24, 2012 20:38:54 GMT -5
Well, that's how it's working right now. She's seeing the other side of Stefan which is kind of pushing her away. Stefan the way he was before I don't think would have made her eventually move to Damon and as long as Stefan was in check with blood, the Ripper wasn't going to be an issue. But including Damon [Wolf bite] and Klaus [Cure + wanting the Ripper] into the equation forced his hand so we're left with Elena spending time with Damon not because of his own merits (not entirely atleast), but because Stefan did something to save his Brother's life.
It looks good on paper for the Salvatore relationship but for the triangle, it's messy. They're just going to run into more problems with the triangle with the way they've gone about it and I wouldn't be surprised if it starts looking like the train is coming off the rails sooner or later and we're all going to crash and burn wondering where the hell they're going with this/what's happening.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 24, 2012 20:44:47 GMT -5
Yup...love your new Selene avi/siggy  |
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