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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 16:22:38 GMT -5
This was on Tumblr and this is how I feel about the punch.
bloodymoons:
this wasn’t like a lot of their other fights where they sort of tumble around . this wasn’t a fight . this was ‘You’re supposed to be my brother. I gave up everything including the girl I LOVE for you. Why couldn’t you stop yourself from r… . ‘Why couldn’t you ever just be my big brother? Why do you always have to want what I want? WHY CAN YOU NOT LOVE ME MORE?’ . and then he just punches him . because it isn’t fair . this is his brother. and he spent over a century blaming himself for his brother’s misery. and it never makes a difference. . his brother will never really forgive him. . he’ll never choose him. . and lil bro!Stefan is ANGRY and HURT . he couldn’t leave Elena alone. Damon acts like he doesn’t understand their bond. like he doesn’t care. . this punch is basically: ‘WHY DON’T YOU LOVE ME?’ . damon doesn’t understand FAMILY . and I wish he did . because this is the true love story. . they let katherine come between them—and before that they let their father do it—and now elena. nothing is sacred . and some day Damon’ll have to understand that you don’t sacrifice yourself because you owe your family. You do it because you love them. . because that’s the thing. Stefan loves Damon. And sure he loves Elena. But that’s different. . he isn’t punching him for loving elena. he’s punching him because he wanted him to love HIM more . and that makes me so sad .
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 21, 2012 16:34:32 GMT -5
How do we know this? Sounds like total projection on this person's part because we have no evidence right now as to why Stefan punched Damon. He hasn't talked about it. As far as the rest of it, Stefan has betrayed Damon as much as Damon betrayed Stefan with Katherine coming between them, maybe even moreso as there is some indication that Damon was with Katherine first, though no confirmation on that. Stefan did admit that he didn't care if he hurt Damon with Katherine. Their Dad, well that was Stefan who told Dad. Damon was right on that one.
As for Damon loving Elena, he didn't CHOOSE to love Elena. We literally have watched him fall in love with her kicking and screaming the entire time not wanting to, but he did, and I don't think any of us chooses who we fall in love with. He has tried to just be her friend, but he has such strong feelings for her that sometimes he can't and he's been thrown into this situation where he literally can't walk away from it because he has to protect her. I think he's done a darn good job of dealing with it though under the circumstances.
Now the situation is different because THEY ARE NOT TOGETHER right now. They are split up and Damon does still feel guilty because there is the underlying fact that Stefan left town to 'save' Damon but I don't see how that should automatically mean he can't be with her forever, when she is single now. In the end, Elena will have to decide and the brothers, both of them, should live with whatever she decides. She's the only one that can make that choice.
As for loving him more, that goes both ways. Stefan could just as easily walk away from it because he loves Damon more. He already broke up with Elena of his own accord. He could walk away and let Damon be happy with her. Why does it have to be his way with Damon being the one to walk away?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 16:49:00 GMT -5
How do we know this? Sounds like total projection on this person's part because we have no evidence right now as to why Stefan punched Damon. He hasn't talked about it. As far as the rest of it, Stefan has betrayed Damon as much as Damon betrayed Stefan with Katherine coming between them, maybe even moreso as there is some indication that Damon was with Katherine first, though no confirmation on that. Stefan did admit that he didn't care if he hurt Damon with Katherine. Their Dad, well that was Stefan who told Dad. Damon was right on that one. As for Damon loving Elena, he didn't CHOOSE to love Elena. We literally have watched him fall in love with her kicking and screaming the entire time not wanting to, but he did, and I don't think any of us chooses who we fall in love with. He has tried to just be her friend, but he has such strong feelings for her that sometimes he can't and he's been thrown into this situation where he literally can't walk away from it because he has to protect her. I think he's done a darn good job of dealing with it though under the circumstances. Now the situation is different because THEY ARE NOT TOGETHER right now. They are split up and Damon does still feel guilty because there is the underlying fact that Stefan left town to 'save' Damon but I don't see how that should automatically mean he can't be with her forever, when she is single now. In the end, Elena will have to decide and the brothers, both of them, should live with whatever she decides. She's the only one that can make that choice. As for loving him more, that goes both ways. Stefan could just as easily walk away from it because he loves Damon more. He already broke up with Elena of his own accord. He could walk away and let Damon be happy with her. Why does it have to be his way with Damon being the one to walk away? Okay I think this post made it clear that it nothing to do with whether or Stefan and Elena were together. It was about the fact that Damon knows how much Stefan loves Elena, just has Stefan knows how much Damon obviously cares for Elena. Stefan choose (just as Katherine stated) Damon even if that meant giving up Elena. Stefan showed signs of being saveable and who does Damon choose before his brother? Elena. It would be nice if he choose Stefan. Made it clear that yes I love you Elena, but this is my brother. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 17:00:42 GMT -5
I just want to add.... Elena said "not that I feel guilty" and Damon said "for feeling guilty for wanting what I want" Elena maybe doesn't need to feel guilty, but Damon being Stefan's flesh and blood should. just my opinion.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 21, 2012 17:02:29 GMT -5
How do we know this? Sounds like total projection on this person's part because we have no evidence right now as to why Stefan punched Damon. He hasn't talked about it. As far as the rest of it, Stefan has betrayed Damon as much as Damon betrayed Stefan with Katherine coming between them, maybe even moreso as there is some indication that Damon was with Katherine first, though no confirmation on that. Stefan did admit that he didn't care if he hurt Damon with Katherine. Their Dad, well that was Stefan who told Dad. Damon was right on that one. As for Damon loving Elena, he didn't CHOOSE to love Elena. We literally have watched him fall in love with her kicking and screaming the entire time not wanting to, but he did, and I don't think any of us chooses who we fall in love with. He has tried to just be her friend, but he has such strong feelings for her that sometimes he can't and he's been thrown into this situation where he literally can't walk away from it because he has to protect her. I think he's done a darn good job of dealing with it though under the circumstances. Now the situation is different because THEY ARE NOT TOGETHER right now. They are split up and Damon does still feel guilty because there is the underlying fact that Stefan left town to 'save' Damon but I don't see how that should automatically mean he can't be with her forever, when she is single now. In the end, Elena will have to decide and the brothers, both of them, should live with whatever she decides. She's the only one that can make that choice. As for loving him more, that goes both ways. Stefan could just as easily walk away from it because he loves Damon more. He already broke up with Elena of his own accord. He could walk away and let Damon be happy with her. Why does it have to be his way with Damon being the one to walk away? Okay I think this post made it clear that it nothing to do with whether or Stefan and Elena were together. It was about the fact that Damon knows how much Stefan loves Elena, just has Stefan knows how much Damon obviously cares for Elena. Stefan choose (just as Katherine stated) Damon even if that meant giving up Elena. Stefan showed signs of being saveable and who does Damon choose before his brother? Elena. It would be nice if he choose Stefan. Made it clear that yes I love you Elena, but this is my brother. By doing what exactly? Never having a relationship with her for all eternity? What would make a Stelena happy exactly? It seems Stefan giving up Elena may be temporary as well based upon the punch, so did he really choose Damon? If he really chose Damon than wouldn't that include letting him have Elena in his absence or were there conditions on this choosing? Do you see where this whole argument falls apart? But the real problem for me is that neither brother owns Elena. Neither brother has a right to say this girl is MINE, hands off. Right now, Elena owns Elena. There is no relationship with her right now at this point in time. Stefan did indeed give her up. So what, now he can come back and act all pissy because he didn't mean that Damon could have her? Were there conditions on that break up? I'm breaking up with you but you can't date my brother even though I practically forced you into each others arms? He has no right to do that...no right at all, no matter how he feels. |
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Post by thebabe20 on Jan 21, 2012 17:22:04 GMT -5
I want to address Stefan bashing. I personally don't think I bash Stefan. There's no secret that he's among my least favorite characters on the show, but I don't think that makes me incapable of seeing his actions objectively. I admit a lot of times I find it hard to relate or sympathize but I do tend to try and look at things from his perspective, and doing the episode recaps having to watch the episode 2 or 3 times to really understand the characters actions and motivations, has also helped me in that regard.
In regards to him punching Damon, I don't think it was justified for the reasons probably stated before me. If I recall correctly Elena told Stefan SHE kissed Damon, not that they kissed or Damon kissed her. For all Stefan knows Damon could have just stood there in shock as Elena planted one on him. (Obviously that's not how it happened, but there's really no way for Stefan to know that.)
So the assumption that Damon must be at fault for anything between he and Elena despite Elena telling him otherwise is a little off putting. And I think it's really just a lot of misplaced rage after having had confirmation that Elena has feelings for his brother. I think Stefan is really mad at himself, and he's finally starting to realize some of the consequences of his actions. Now that its really starting to affect him, he's took out his rage on Damon. It's finally starting to dawn on him that he really is starting to lose everything. Like Klaus pointed out to him, he has no friends really, and that's really all of his doing.
Secondly I don't see how Elena and Damon wronged him in anyway. Stefan can't chose to toss Elena out like trash and then get angry that his brother decides to value her. It's like "I don't want her, but you can't have her either." That's not a very attractive attitude for him to have. He broke up with Elena and did everything to try and push her away from him regardless of his reasons, so why does he care who she's with? Regardless if it's his brother or not. If he wanted to push her away, and he did successfully why is he all up in arms about her having feelings for someone else? Oh right because it's Damon, and Damon is not allowed to have her under any circumstances no matter how much he loves and protects her, and no matter how much he's sacrificed for her. Stefan almost resembles a spoiled brat here.
Now when it comes to the punch, I thought it was understandable regardless of whether or not it was actually justified. I understood Stefan's anger, hurt, and feeling of being betrayed. (Not that I necessarily think he was betrayed) but I can completely understand him feeling that way. Like I wrote in my recap, I thought his reaction was spot on, and was exactly what I expected. In that moment upon realizing what everything he lost he took his anger out on Damon. (Which is not unusual for Stefan).
But one thing I want to point out, is that I think it says a lot that Damon actually feels guilt for his feelings for Elena (Even though she's no longer with Stefan) and I know he feels guilty for having kissed her as well. That tells me that despite his actions Damon actually thinks about his brothers feelings (hence the guilt), he actually cares that he's hurting Stefan.
That's honestly way more than I can say for Stefan, who has not expressed an ounce of guilt over what him being with Elena has meant for Damon. Not showed an ounce of regret or guilt for his brothers pain, even goes as far as using Damon's feelings for Elena to protect her, but throws a fit if heavens forbid she actually starts to reciprocate those feelings. Not once through-out this series has Stefan admitted or expressed any feelings of guilt or sense of being torn that his happiness comes at the cost of his brothers.
So while everyone sees Damon's selfishness and (surely he has displayed some selfishness )in regards to the triangle, what about Stefan's?
For me the triangle is a lot more complicated than what I tend to read. I don't think the result of what's happening is any ONE person's fault, or result of anyone's betrayal. I feel like these three are victims of circumstances, and neither of them asked to be put in this situation but they're in it. The triangle is as much of Stefan's doing as it is Damon or Elena's.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 21, 2012 17:24:30 GMT -5
"It's right, but not right now," means to me that Damon understands that Elena needs to sort out her feelings about Stefan and come to some closure/conclusion on that. He may feel guilty 'right now' but he obviously does not think that it will never happen or that it should never happen, just not right now, not until they get their 'stuff' sorted out.
There's a huge difference between never and 'not right now.' In the end it's Elena's choice and how either brother feels about it or about what they think their brother should do/should have done is irrelevant.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 21, 2012 17:26:03 GMT -5
Even so... the guy knows Damon loves Elena. He knows Damon loves her and he has asked that one guy who he knows they share a connection to take care of Elena time and time again.... Come on! What do you expect? Especially when you make it clear you don't want the responsibility anymore. What??? Damon is supposed to just do it for you? That's not fair to Damon. To ask that of him for you're hearts sake while forsaking his. And I don't bash Stefan. I just don't make excuses for him either. I like the guy. I wouldn't ship him with Care or Kat if I didn't. I watch the same show as everyone else. I don't hate a single character. I hope to not come across biased but I don't feel the way I do about Stefan because I hate his character. I actually care about Stefan. I just don't want him with Elena. i never said you bash him just alot of others do =) i dont like those arguements i think ill stay away from them haha because they choose for me -_- no fair haha Oh I know you didn't dear. I just want to state how and where I am coming from for anyone who reads. not just you! Wasn't saying you said that! I just know you and I are talking but others will jump in so I want it to be known to all how I feel about Stefan as a character. =) No hard feelings and no arguments either. We just debate the SE's on here. We don't argue or fight.  We all respect each other. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 17:28:21 GMT -5
Okay I think this post made it clear that it nothing to do with whether or Stefan and Elena were together. It was about the fact that Damon knows how much Stefan loves Elena, just has Stefan knows how much Damon obviously cares for Elena. Stefan choose (just as Katherine stated) Damon even if that meant giving up Elena. Stefan showed signs of being saveable and who does Damon choose before his brother? Elena. It would be nice if he choose Stefan. Made it clear that yes I love you Elena, but this is my brother. By doing what exactly? Never having a relationship with her for all eternity? What would make a Stelena happy exactly? It seems Stefan giving up Elena may be temporary as well based upon the punch, so did he really choose Damon? If he really chose Damon than wouldn't that include letting him have Elena in his absence or were there conditions on this choosing? Do you see where this whole argument falls apart? But the real problem for me is that neither brother owns Elena. Neither brother has a right to say this girl is MINE, hands off. Right now, Elena owns Elena. There is no relationship with her right now at this point in time. Stefan did indeed give her up. So what, now he can come back and act all pissy because he didn't mean that Damon could have her? Were there conditions on that break up? I'm breaking up with you but you can't date my brother even though I practically forced you into each others arms? He has no right to do that...no right at all, no matter how he feels. No one said for all eternity. Damon can only have what Elena wants to give. I think she made it clear she may not feel guilty for kissing Damon, but it is not something she was necessarily ready for. But back to not having a relationship for all eternity. They kissed when Stefan made it obvious he still cares. He was still him. How about starting with not directly after he learns that Stefan saved his life yet again. I am not saying Damon did not have the right to kiss ELena, as I said he did. Stefan also has the right to be upset that his brother whom he sacrificed his life for and saved his life numerous times would take that information he dragged out of him and show that it meant nothing to him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 17:30:53 GMT -5
"It's right, but not right now," means to me that Damon understands that Elena needs to sort out her feelings about Stefan and come to some closure/conclusion on that. He may feel guilty 'right now' but he obviously does not think that it will never happen or that it should never happen, just not right now, not until they get their 'stuff' sorted out. There's a huge difference between never and 'not right now.' In the end it's Elena's choice and how either brother feels about it or about what they think their brother should do/should have done is irrelevant. I agree with this.  but I think they are still allowed to feel about what each does. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 21, 2012 17:38:15 GMT -5
By doing what exactly? Never having a relationship with her for all eternity? What would make a Stelena happy exactly? It seems Stefan giving up Elena may be temporary as well based upon the punch, so did he really choose Damon? If he really chose Damon than wouldn't that include letting him have Elena in his absence or were there conditions on this choosing? Do you see where this whole argument falls apart? But the real problem for me is that neither brother owns Elena. Neither brother has a right to say this girl is MINE, hands off. Right now, Elena owns Elena. There is no relationship with her right now at this point in time. Stefan did indeed give her up. So what, now he can come back and act all pissy because he didn't mean that Damon could have her? Were there conditions on that break up? I'm breaking up with you but you can't date my brother even though I practically forced you into each others arms? He has no right to do that...no right at all, no matter how he feels. No one said for all eternity. Damon can only have what Elena wants to give. I think she made it clear she may not feel guilty for kissing Damon, but it is not something she was necessarily ready for. But back to not having a relationship for all eternity. They kissed when Stefan made it obvious he still cares. He was still him. How about starting with not directly after he learns that Stefan saved his life yet again. I am not saying Damon did not have the right to kiss ELena, as I said he did. Stefan also has the right to be upset that his brother whom he sacrificed his life for and saved his life numerous times would take that information he dragged out of him and show that it meant nothing to him. Stefan did not make it obvious that he still cared. He was still in 'not my problem' mode when they kissed. Really it was only finding out that they DID kiss this last episode that there's been any indication he might still care about Elena, but I personally find it highly suspect that THAT is the reason he seems to want to change anything. I'd be super ticked off about that if I were Elena. I still don't get the connection between Stefan saving Damon's life therefore Damon should not kiss the girl he broke up with and was presently treating like dirt. I mean let's face it, Elena kissed him on the very night Stefan signed up to go with Klaus. They did not know it at the time. Strangely nobody seems to want to talk about that anymore like it didn't happen. This has been going on since before Stefan ever made his 'sacrifice.' Damon had no control over that kiss and Damon did not act upon it afterwards because they were still together at the time and then, of course, they found out what Stefan had done. You can call it a 'pity' kiss but based upon Elena's feelings for Damon being more clear now, it was alot more than that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2012 18:03:38 GMT -5
I see this going in circles, but I do agree with that tumblr post.
Also, just because someone is in the right does not mean it is not hurtful. Maybe to others Stefan was not showing he cares, but Damon should have been able to see through Stefan's facade (imo) and I think he did or he would of felt guilty if he thought Stefab truly didn't care about Elena or him anymore.
Stefan was hurt/mad/sad his brother provoked him a little, which was all it took for Stefan not to be able to hide that anymore.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 21, 2012 18:35:07 GMT -5
I see this going in circles, but I do agree with that tumblr post. Also, just because someone is in the right does not mean it is not hurtful. Maybe to others Stefan was not showing he cares, but Damon should have been able to see through Stefan's facade (imo) and I think he did or he would of felt guilty if he thought Stefab truly didn't care about Elena or him anymore. Stefan was hurt/mad/sad his brother provoked him a little, which was all it took for Stefan not to be able to hide that anymore. How did he provoke him? He had no way of knowing the conversation Stefan had with Elena. He was just asking because he cares about Elena, too, which is what set Stefan off and I understand that. I don't see how you could think Damon should just 'know' what Stefan is feeling. If anything can be said about these two brothers its that they really have communication problems and misinterpret the others motives all the freaking time. |
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steboangel07
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Post by steboangel07 on Jan 21, 2012 19:53:15 GMT -5
Ground Nah! No one EVER has ground to put their hands on someone else physically. It's a TV show so different rules I guess. But I actually just kinda watched that and laughed. Almost expected it in a sense.... Everyone went crazy on twitter and I was thinking to myself really guys? We know who this guy is right now at this time. you knew he would punch him. Before all of this happened and at the start of season 3 I wondered how Stefan would react. I thought well since Stefan has asked Damon to take care of Elena and I will throw this out there "knowing his feelings for her were love" maybe when the time came he would be like well, I kinda should expect this since I did keep them together. I asked Damon to be the one to protect her because I knew Damon loved her the way I did so he would protect her. It's not a fair thing to do so I thought maybe he would take this understanding and kinda just show more of an emotional sadness when it happened. But Stefan has been someone different lately. So when he punched Damon I laughed. And When Damon shot back "so I take it you and Elena had a heart to heart" I laughed! It was kinda silly. Someone said it was Stefan coming through but I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure if the Stefan who punched Damon is the true Stefan or just a frustrated with everything, has the weight on his shoulder, Klaus told him he had no friends left, Elena doesn't even want me around and it's all starting to unfold in me Stefan. Look this episode was telling. His actions are pushing people away. Even Klaus told him "look around" and really who out there is Stefan's friend at this point? I Mean Damon loves his bro, he will do anything but he doesn't quite like him. Elena doesn't want to deal with him for obvious and GREAT reasons. Bonnie is there because she feels she has to. The council is pissed at him and I'm sure Tyler and Care thank him for that bite. Jer is gone bc he wont help her keep him safe and I'm sure Alaric thinks he's a grad A douche for getting hit. Stefan realizes this in this episode! Before he even finds out about the kiss. He realizes Elena lied to him so she wouldn't have to deal with him and that she kissed his brother. he is realizing that he really is losing everything because of the coffins. So I expected him to hit Damon yes. I wont lie if I didn't say I felt it was a bet self righteous. But do I understand sure. Did I expect it. Yep! Do i think he was justified NOPE! I wont make excuses for Stefan's actions but I can dissect them to understand them more I guess. Self righteous? Nah Stefan would NEVER be self-righteous. A bit of the old Stefan rearing it's ugly head there I guess. Ick I shudder at the combination of old and 'new' Stefan combined into one, a self-righteous ahole who doesn't give a crap...sounds lovely.  It seems to me he's only starting to care because it's starting to effect HIM. Prior to that it was, 'not my problem,' as the standard answer coming out of his mouth. I guess is matter of opinion... I think Damon deserve more than a punch. |
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steboangel07
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Post by steboangel07 on Jan 21, 2012 19:57:06 GMT -5
I just want to add.... Elena said "not that I feel guilty" and Damon said "for feeling guilty for wanting what I want" Elena maybe doesn't need to feel guilty, but Damon being Stefan's flesh and blood should. just my opinion. I completely agree with you..... As a brother, your first priority supposed to be to your brother, who by the way risk everything to safe your butt. That's all I"m saying |
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