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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:04:49 GMT -5
But it is wrong if he truly feels like the sure bond is affecting her feeling! Why erase your memory and punish Elena if you think she has no control over her actions? So is she or is she not sired? Are her feelings real? Why do something rash and hurt Elena if you truly believe her actions are strictly from the sure bond? Your done with her but you still want the cure. He is confusing me! True if that is what he thought. I am sure he had a plethra of confusing emotions, but I guess if there was any doubt he should not have had any thought once about it. but I think it was suppose to show how deeply hurt he was that he went to that extreme. I think it was suppose to show how much he loved her verses giving up on her. She said some pretty hurtful things as to how she feels when Stefan looks at her. I am sure he felt trapped into how to change that because truthfully he probably does think she needs to be fixed because whether or not she loves Damon or not she is without a doubt sired to him and that should be fixed and while she is sired to him she will not understand how much that needs to be fixed. So Stefan was in the place where he could do no right and the love of his life did not only sleep with his brother, love his brother, but she no longer was in love with him--which I think Stefan never thought she would say. He might have thought I am in love with them both or I love them both would be the worst, but to hear her say she no longer loves him and why... he might have thought well maybe I need to do this. I am hurting her by looking at her, by trying to help her, but I love her too much to let her go like I should after all this so erase her, because I don't know if I have the strength to walk away. In the end he did. We will see if that is something he can stick to. I tend to think he won;t be able to especially since he has tried many times and never succeeded. |
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Post by Slash on Jan 20, 2013 19:07:15 GMT -5
No, I don't think Stefan did it purposely to hurt Elena. From his POV, even if he wanted Elena to be happen with Damon and left town to go elsewhere, Elena would still be present in his mind/memory. Even at a distance, he'd be hurting and would possibly just turn it all off at a point. So although he said 'do it', I think it was mainly for his benefit and not going back down a dark road in the future (saving lives in the process). 'Cowards' way out or not, I think it was a reasonable decision if it prevented him from going into another Ripper stint cause he was always thinking about Elena and 'switched off' to stop. Elena being hurt in the process probably isn't even something he's going for. Sure her memories still remain but it's a reasonable option on Stefan's behalf for him to move on and let atleast one side of this triangle live it out without this whole 'the Other Brother' thing.
I think Bekah telling him 'no' just made him shift gears (if my other theory isn't on the money about him luring in Bekah for a plan) to the "I hate my Brother" thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:16:06 GMT -5
Slash--- I think your theory is a good one... we all know that when Stefan wants to he can pull off a good act. He did it a couple time with Katherine and Rebekah seems a bit easy to take the bate especially sense she kinda needs him.
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Post by Slash on Jan 20, 2013 19:18:32 GMT -5
But it is wrong if he truly feels like the sure bond is affecting her feeling! Why erase your memory and punish Elena if you think she has no control over her actions? So is she or is she not sired? Are her feelings real? Why do something rash and hurt Elena if you truly believe her actions are strictly from the sure bond? Your done with her but you still want the cure. He is confusing me! True if that is what he thought. I am sure he had a plethra of confusing emotions, but I guess if there was any doubt he should not have had any thought once about it. but I think it was suppose to show how deeply hurt he was that he went to that extreme. I think it was suppose to show how much he loved her verses giving up on her. She said some pretty hurtful things as to how she feels when Stefan looks at her. I am sure he felt trapped into how to change that because truthfully he probably does think she needs to be fixed because whether or not she loves Damon or not she is without a doubt sired to him and that should be fixed and while she is sired to him she will not understand how much that needs to be fixed. So Stefan was in the place where he could do no right and the love of his life did not only sleep with his brother, love his brother, but she no longer was in love with him--which I think Stefan never thought she would say. He might have thought I am in love with them both or I love them both would be the worst, but to hear her say she no longer loves him and why... he might have thought well maybe I need to do this. I am hurting her by looking at her, by trying to help her, but I love her too much to let her go like I should after all this so erase her, because I don't know if I have the strength to walk away. In the end he did. We will see if that is something he can stick to. I tend to think he won;t be able to especially since he has tried many times and never succeeded. I think this could have been worked through with Stefan & Elena. If there were these problems, as a couple, both of them should have sat down and cleared the air like normal people do. If Elena felt like Stefan was treating her like a broken toy, she should have voiced that concern to him, assured him she's not broken, that she doesn't want him to pursue the cure, and that she can adjust to this change (Caroline did). Stop trying to make up for that night. Stefan should have probably had an open conversation with her about Damon and just got it all out there. Let her freely get the subject off her chest so both of them know where she stands. Sadly, it took Bekah compelling them to get to some of these truths and even then, they were blunt and forced out and after the relationship. It's like Jeremy & Bonnie where Jeremy didn't go to Bonnie about seeing ghosts, one being his dead gf, and they didn't sit down and work through it as a couple (Bonnie didn't seem to want to sit down). By the time the Jeremy-Anna thing came to light, he was 'caught' in the worst possible way and was lying about it. These are couples. Work out your s*** instead of keeping it all bottled up and then pushing the blame on the other when things are over. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:25:48 GMT -5
agreed! but in the world of TVD and Mystic Falls we keep secrets until we are caught and hurt people more or we wait way too long even 100 years to apologize for something we were sorry for immediately after doing it. It is just silly!
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 20, 2013 19:31:19 GMT -5
I don't think he said it to hurt her or get even but the act itself would hurt her and we know that, he knows that. That was my point is that he was too consumed with his pain that he didn't think in that moment what it could do to her and how shed have to live with this mess. Yes it was a quick situation but that's my point too. He was so consumed with his pain he didn't take a moment to think of its consequences. That's not just some little thing. What if she said sure I'll do it. Then Elena is still sired and nothing ever was resolved. He was running from his pain but still leaving the very reason he wanted to help her. To free her! I can't understand how he can fault her if he thinks its all sire bond? Now he wants to see if she has feelings for Damon really. It's just a bit contradictory. I'm not sure Stefan is that wushu washy or if the writers didn't realize how weird his actions were?
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Post by Slash on Jan 20, 2013 19:39:33 GMT -5
Then Elena is still sired and nothing ever was resolved. He was running from his pain but still leaving the very reason he wanted to help her. To free her! I can't understand how he can fault her if he thinks its all sire bond? Now he wants to see if she has feelings for Damon really. It's just a bit contradictory. I'm not sure Stefan is that wushu washy or if the writers didn't realize how weird his actions were? He wanted to help her at first because he knew she didn't want this. Then it kind of switched up/became half-and-half about wanting to break the sire bond too. I don't think he hastily said that without realizing. Like before, he's blown her off/put the gang at risk (war with Klaus) cause he knows Damon will cover that front. Damon wants to break the bond too. If Stefan steps out of the picture, he can do it knowing his Brother will complete that particular task. I do think he's kind of stressed out though with the choice especially if he's faulting the sire bond. Technically, him and Damon should be working together on this and be filling each other in, feelings aside about how the current Elena situation is. Stefan wants to know if her feelings are real for Damon or just the sire bond. Funny enough, Damon wants to know the same. Same goal: break the sire bond/get Elena the cure to find out if it's all true. But it's TVD. There has to be some meaningless character conflict when characters can work towards the same common goal, on the same page no less (I imagine Damon & Stefan would be more on the same page than say, Stefan & Bekah-Kol or Damon & Klaus or Stefan & Klaus). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:42:44 GMT -5
I don't think he said it to hurt her or get even but the act itself would hurt her and we know that, he knows that. That was my point is that he was too consumed with his pain that he didn't think in that moment what it could do to her and how shed have to live with this mess. Yes it was a quick situation but that's my point too. He was so consumed with his pain he didn't take a moment to think of its consequences. That's not just some little thing. What if she said sure I'll do it. Then Elena is still sired and nothing ever was resolved. He was running from his pain but still leaving the very reason he wanted to help her. To free her! I can't understand how he can fault her if he thinks its all sire bond? Now he wants to see if she has feelings for Damon really. It's just a bit contradictory. I'm not sure Stefan is that wushu washy or if the writers didn't realize how weird his actions were? I get what you are saying, but just as we have discussed in other threads not everything can be the sire bond and Stefan is not stupid he knows that too and yes he was consumed by his own pain and selfish as it was, it was it was no more selfish then Elena asking Stefan to save Matt instead of her when she was drowning. She knew she would die and she would feel better it ended that way, but she also knew what that would do to stefan and she knew stefan would do it if she asked. |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 20, 2013 20:46:54 GMT -5
No, I don't think Stefan did it purposely to hurt Elena. From his POV, even if he wanted Elena to be happen with Damon and left town to go elsewhere, Elena would still be present in his mind/memory. Even at a distance, he'd be hurting and would possibly just turn it all off at a point. So although he said 'do it', I think it was mainly for his benefit and not going back down a dark road in the future (saving lives in the process). 'Cowards' way out or not, I think it was a reasonable decision if it prevented him from going into another Ripper stint cause he was always thinking about Elena and 'switched off' to stop. Elena being hurt in the process probably isn't even something he's going for. Sure her memories still remain but it's a reasonable option on Stefan's behalf for him to move on and let atleast one side of this triangle live it out without this whole 'the Other Brother' thing. I think Bekah telling him 'no' just made him shift gears (if my other theory isn't on the money about him luring in Bekah for a plan) to the "I hate my Brother" thing. Slash I must say I really loved your post  But I dont know if he is really luring Bekah into another plan. I think Stefan now is going to be Revenge 2.0 (Maybe) but also going to be stuck between the Original Siblings hence Klaus coming to him for help when bekah doesnt want to do things Klaus' way. Is Bekah and Stefan gonna keep their Alliance a secret? or Will stefan have a secret agenda? Because Stefan's secret agenda/solo plans never work out. I have been rewatching the epsiodes this season to gather some info and what Ive come to realize Is I hate what Elena confessed to Stefan because its complete Bullsh*t Yea she was compelled to tell the truth but it doesnt mean I have to like it. there is only ONE instant wheere she could have felt like that and it was after they already had broken up and they had their mini confrontation outside of the Lockwood mansion where she tells him he doesnt have to love her like this and this is who she is and yadadadad but before that, while they were together STEFAN NEVER TREATED HER LIKE A BROKEN TOY. Even when they broke up she still told him i would love nothing more then to get the old me back. The next day because proceeding the hunter's mark and jeremy went a little looney she freaked out which i dont necessarily blame her BUT Elena get a little whiney when shes not in on a plan and this is what pisses me off and what makes me think how much alike Elena and Damon are... Elena gets all whiny and stubborn when she is not involved in a plan because she swears she's invincible and has to be in the center of it all. if she does it intentionally or not its still annoying. Reminds me of when Rebekah tells Elena "Get Over Yourself"  Damon is the same way he doesnt know how to put his faith in others to fulfill a plan and he gets all impatient and wants to take matters in his own hands. Ex: Not trusting the elixer Elijah had to bring Elena back to life so feeding her blood Ex: Killing Mason and shoving it in Katherine's face making her have Jenna stab herself Ex: Not trusting Stefan with the whole Mystic Grill Hostage thing because he wanted to kill the hunter himself...And I mean if they wouldve went with Damon's plan more then one person couldve gotten hurt in the situation Theres prob more but yea |
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Post by pixiestyx on Jan 20, 2013 20:47:46 GMT -5
I don't think he said it to purposely hurt Elena but if it was meant to show how much he loved her then it failed spectacularly (at least for me). Yes, Elena said some hurtful things but I just can't get behind him wanting to erase Elena from his memory and what it means for how Stefan views their relationship.
As for Elena being sired to Damon, I don't think that we can say yet that it is 100% for sure. I can see it going both ways to be honest. But if she is sired she doesn't need to fixed; the sire bond needs to be broken and that's a huge distinction for me.
I'm not sure I agree with your theory Slash. Stefan has always said that memories are important; it's probably why he's kept a journal all these years. What does he do with all those memories of the people he killed? Any one of them could be overwhelm him at any time. I can sort of see him playing Rebekah, though I'm not thrilled with the idea her getting toyed with again. Like you said, Stefan and Damon should be working together since their end goal is the same.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 20, 2013 20:51:50 GMT -5
This is a debate thread so I don't expect we are all going to agree, but we can all say what we think and/or feel is going on. Our opinion, pretty much. I'm not sure what was so upsetting. Yes, most of us are not very fond of Stefan. I would like to be, but what I see doesn't make me happy and it doesn't even have to do with Damon. I don't like the way he behaves toward Elena either and just his overall personality type is not my kind of guy, but I still think he is redeemable. I know he tries to do good. I don't think he's entirely horrible, just to me, quite a bit horrible.  I agree! but saying you want to strangle them when they are on screen is not really debating it is just hating imo (just one example) I admit I probably over reacted a bit  BUT seriously I love this board and all of you guys  , but it is not the easiest place debate for a Stefan and SE fan so I am sorry I lost my cool. Did you miss the laughing face beside my comment? I was joking JOKING. I don't want to strangle Stefan. OK, maybe a little bit.  |
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Post by pixiestyx on Jan 20, 2013 20:59:05 GMT -5
You know what interesting about Elena saying that she thinks when Stefan looks at her he sees a broken toy or that she makes him sad and is a project? He doesn't even try to deny it. And this silence speaks volumes. This is something that he has made her feel, intentionally or not. She's not supposed to be this person, remember? She can't handle killing someone because she cares too much. These are things that Stefan has said to Damon and while he hasn't said it to her she's probably picked up on it thus what she says under compulsion.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 20, 2013 21:09:11 GMT -5
Throughout this season Elena has done nothing but vent and freak out about not wanting to be a vampire and Stefan nver told her I cant love you like this, you make me sad...Examples:
4x01: Elena: I was ready to die. I dont want to be a vampire. I cant be a vampire. If theres something bonnie can do we have to try
4x02: Stefan (After Elena feeds) I know its hard but you can do this
4x02: Stefan:Your alivish and your here and u gonna get thru this
4x03: Stefan: (Speaking to Elena about killing rebekah) You can go kill her if you want. But this is whats going to happen. You going to feel great for the first 10 seconds and then all you going to feel is guilt. Rage is a very powerful Feeling but guilt take it from me will destroy you
4x04" Elena to Stefan: You're the one getting me through this no matter whos the one teaching me how to feed.
4x04: I learned how to feed without hurting anyone, It was awful you was right I got caught up in it.
Stefan: it will get easier Elena: I dont want it to get easier i cant live like this. im feeling things i dont want to feel and im becoming someone i dont want to be. I dont think im going to survive this
Stefan: you will survive this you just need to hold on (Because he is already aware of the cure)
Episode 4x05 was the whole hostage conner situation
Episode 4x06 was the hallucinations/Break up
Episode 4x07 was Elena finding out Jeremy was on his hunter spree courtesy of Stefan (I admit Stefan didnt use the correct tactics)
Again Stefan channeling his heartbreak when talking to elen aabout fixing this etc
So maybe if Elena wouldve man the freak up maybe no one would had worried about "fixing" her
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 21:12:59 GMT -5
I agree! but saying you want to strangle them when they are on screen is not really debating it is just hating imo (just one example) I admit I probably over reacted a bit BUT seriously I love this board and all of you guys , but it is not the easiest place debate for a Stefan and SE fan so I am sorry I lost my cool. Did you miss the laughing face beside my comment? I was joking JOKING. I don't want to strangle Stefan. OK, maybe a little bit. I admitted to over reacting!! sorry...  |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 20, 2013 21:26:00 GMT -5
No, I don't think Stefan did it purposely to hurt Elena. From his POV, even if he wanted Elena to be happen with Damon and left town to go elsewhere, Elena would still be present in his mind/memory. Even at a distance, he'd be hurting and would possibly just turn it all off at a point. So although he said 'do it', I think it was mainly for his benefit and not going back down a dark road in the future (saving lives in the process). 'Cowards' way out or not, I think it was a reasonable decision if it prevented him from going into another Ripper stint cause he was always thinking about Elena and 'switched off' to stop. Elena being hurt in the process probably isn't even something he's going for. Sure her memories still remain but it's a reasonable option on Stefan's behalf for him to move on and let atleast one side of this triangle live it out without this whole 'the Other Brother' thing. I think Bekah telling him 'no' just made him shift gears (if my other theory isn't on the money about him luring in Bekah for a plan) to the "I hate my Brother" thing. Slash I must say I really loved your post But I dont know if he is really luring Bekah into another plan. I think Stefan now is going to be Revenge 2.0 (Maybe) but also going to be stuck between the Original Siblings hence Klaus coming to him for help when bekah doesnt want to do things Klaus' way. Is Bekah and Stefan gonna keep their Alliance a secret? or Will stefan have a secret agenda? Because Stefan's secret agenda/solo plans never work out. I have been rewatching the epsiodes this season to gather some info and what Ive come to realize Is I hate what Elena confessed to Stefan because its complete Bullsh*t
Yea she was compelled to tell the truth but it doesnt mean I have to like it. there is only ONE instant wheere she could have felt like that and it was after they already had broken up and they had their mini confrontation outside of the Lockwood mansion where she tells him he doesnt have to love her like this and this is who she is and yadadadad
but before that, while they were together STEFAN NEVER TREATED HER LIKE A BROKEN TOY. Even when they broke up she still told him i would love nothing more then to get the old me back. The next day because proceeding the hunter's mark and jeremy went a little looney she freaked out which i dont necessarily blame her BUT Elena get a little whiney when shes not in on a plan and this is what pisses me off and what makes me think how much alike Elena and Damon are... Elena gets all whiny and stubborn when she is not involved in a plan because she swears she's invincible and has to be in the center of it all. if she does it intentionally or not its still annoying. Reminds me of when Rebekah tells Elena "Get Over Yourself" Damon is the same way he doesnt know how to put his faith in others to fulfill a plan and he gets all impatient and wants to take matters in his own hands. Ex: Not trusting the elixer Elijah had to bring Elena back to life so feeding her blood
Ex: Killing Mason and shoving it in Katherine's face making her have Jenna stab herself
Ex: Not trusting Stefan with the whole Mystic Grill Hostage thing because he wanted to kill the hunter himself...And I mean if they wouldve went with Damon's plan more then one person couldve gotten hurt in the situation Theres prob more but yea Alright let's talk about the bolded stuff. First of all, it is not bulls***. You believe it is bulls***. I don't and neither does Elena. Here's some stuff Stefan said about Elena after she became a vampire. It doesn't matter if he directly said these things to her. As close as they were, she could sense it, feel it, however you want to put that. We can always read the people we know well. "She's been spiraling since her transition. At times I barely recognize her." "I'll always love her, but she's not supposed to be this person (as if she is someone else). I don't want her to be." "He's the only way to fix all this." Talking about Klaus and Connor as I recall. So he did indeed want to 'fix' her because he felt something was wrong with her. She's "broken." Nobody put that thought in Elena's head. It's what she feels from the way Stefan has gone gung ho to cure her and often times ignored her dealing with her vampirism in the process. I think she felt it. She felt his withdrawal from her and that is what she concluded. As for what you said about Damon. Of course he didn't trust the elixir with something as important as Elena's life. It was old. It was given to him by witches who are notorious for messing with vampires and he tried to talk to them about it but nobody was listening, so he did the only thing he thought he could do to assure she lived. Yeah it was impulsive and he later apologized for it but it would have kept her alive for certain and that was his goal. Killing Mason was killing Mason because he was a pain in the ass and causing problems for them. What Katherine did after that is not Damon's fault. Nobody could have known she would do that. Stefan had another agenda with the Mystic Grill thing. He was working with Klaus and he wanted to keep the hunter alive. In essence, had Damon gone there he would have killed the hunter and suffered the hallucinations thus saving Elena from that and her later trying to kill herself. I don't think anyone can deny that Damon is better at planning than any of them. Stefan should have given him the new info about the hybrids and they should have come up with an alternate plan. Stefan's plan was not to kill the hunter and the only reason he knocked Damon out was to prevent that. I don't think under those circumstances he had a good plan, do you, really? |
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