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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 0:24:25 GMT -5
The door was left open in my opinion when she set out the reasons why she fell out of love with him. He makes her feel like a broken doll. True or not that how she feels. He needs to stop that. Hell it's like any couples therapy there's always a chance to fix it if people listen and make changes. This is totally contrary to what I want to happen but I'm saying it isn't the end by a long shot. She still loves Stefan as she said.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 0:30:47 GMT -5
But I don't understand... Why would Julie in the episode where the Sire Bond is reveled... why would she purposely write in two instances to show the audience that the sire bond does not affect emotions/feelings but only actions?
Just because you are sired to someone and you want to make them happy doesn't mean you have to love them. Damon never asked for her love. When Damon said what would make me happy this was after Elena was already fighting him on how she felt and trying to convince him ALREADY that she had feelings for him. So it's real or it isn't real? Was she fighting him on it before he said it or not? Just because he says that doesn't take away the moments before when she fought him saying she has feelings for him and nothing has changed or when she talked to Tyler and felt re-leaved because she knew it helped justify what she already knew.
I don't get it. I'm sitting here scratching my head.... I mean I'm going off of evidence on the show. I'm not making this stuff up. Even evidence from Julie herself in tweets/interviews.
Her vamperisim heightened all feelings! So Stefan and Damon were on equal playing fields. What happened from 3x22 to now was a lot! A lot happened. She made a quick choice. A QUICK choice. Yes she felt for Damon and what she felt never un-felt for Stefan. We got it. But Elena didn't realize how much she actually felt. She didn't even realize it until Rebekah had to compel it out of her.... Did you see Elena's face of reckoning BOTH TIMES!
And if you believe in a world where a SB actually affects feelings then today Elena must tell the truth. The SB would be a lie. Like a lake of ice over the truth. Compulsion would break that ice and bring forth the truth every time! So no matter what Elena felt even if SB's affect your feelings you cant lie. The SB is a lie right? I mean it's making Elena feel fake feelings for Damon and have fake not feelings for Stefan. So if the cure is found the hidden truth in Elena's subconsciousness would be magically revealed. So if it's there and she just cant touch the truth because the sire bond is "blinding" her.... The compulsion should have done the trick.
When have you ever seen anyone keep ANY truth under compulsion?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 0:34:49 GMT -5
That's true too, who says a sire bond trumps compulsion, even if it was effecting her feelings which we have every indication it doesn't and no indication that it does.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 0:39:50 GMT -5
but its what she believes is real is her truth
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 0:47:02 GMT -5
but its what she believes is real is her truth I'm the best singer in the world. That is my truth!! But deep down inside I know it's not true. I cant sing.... People live in denial everyday. I'm not a drug abuser, I don't drink too much, I'm not a s*** even though I slept with over a 100 guys (still not calling her a s***) but my point is people have their own truth. They can lie to themselves and believe with their whole hearts I'm not a drug addict or an alcoholic and when they say that they believe it but it's the drug or alcohol addiction saying that. But deep down have problems. Their truth is they are not but the truth still remains. It takes therapy for people to find the truth sometimes but it's still there even if their truth is different...This is like the sire bond if it in fact works with feelings.... Compulsion would have made it clear as crystal. Her truth is not the truth. We can pick and choose now. Compulsion either gets the truth and I mean TRUTH or it doesn't. Sorry. I'm more convinced now more than ever!
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 0:50:28 GMT -5
This is madness. It isn't about what she believes is the truth. It doesn't affect her feelings! The sire bond does NOT affect her feelings. It doesn't matter what she believes are her feelings. This is getting into the realm of crazy making thinking. She loves Damon. They can't make it more clear. Hell yeah I wish the sire bond was not a factor in anything so we could all feel good about it or at the least there would be no doubt but that's called angst I guess.
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proxi
New Member
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Post by proxi on Jan 18, 2013 3:03:15 GMT -5
Why doesn't anyone consider that she had a change of feelings because of Stefan's attitude and disturbed behavior? Despite the cheesiness of the rooftop scene, she truly believed in the beginning of S4 that she was in love with Stefan. We're assuming that the SB is a consequence of her becoming a vampire because of Damon's blood. So, let's assume she loves Damon because of the SB. But my strong belief is that she fell out of love with Stefan because of his behavior. The love for Damon is not related to her lack of love for Stefan. What none of the Stelena fans are not questioning his attitude?
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 10:29:54 GMT -5
The sirebond affected how she feels for Stefan now. It kind of made her feelings for Damon go on overdrive.
Wtf did Stefan do? One episode whefe she realized he went behind everyones back to get a cure and then helped turn Jeremy into a hunter bc jeremy was also in on it. Did he read all the paperwork no but he went with it.
This whole gang has went behind eachother back for something and they seem not realize those plans never work.
Did Stefan know the side effects of being a hunter? No
At the end of the day Elena still wants that cure. She has not stopped them. Now they especially want it because they want to ALL break the sirebond.
Now Damon is joining team klaus which means hes gonna have to.do some bad stuff again but its.ok Elena.knows about it. =-O
Will she stay with Damon after? Im almost certain she will. But those feelings she had for Stefan will either come rushing in or pour out slowly and.maybe not come out at all. Then you all can thank.The sirebond for making it happen.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 10:55:49 GMT -5
Btw that so was not an angry post lol I read it after and I was like dang it sounds harsh. So.apologies in advance
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 11:18:26 GMT -5
Sorry my post is kind of long! And I hope I don't sound angry either To me I don't see what the confusion is. I thought the reason they had Damon tell Elena to leave in 4x09 was that she could be away from his influence. When in Damon's presence Elena doesn't have free will and away from his presence and influence Elena still doesn't have free will? You can't have it both ways. Which one do you think it is? Damon wasn't anywhere near Elena in 4x10 and he 'let her go' in 4x09 so how can he have affected what Elena said when he was no where near her? How would Elena know what would have 'made Damon happy' in that moment? Two people on the show said sire bond affects actions and not feelings and if we want to eliminate Tyler because he's a hybrid then we have Nandi who explained the Vampire-Human sire bond to us. If Damon was actually in the school, sitting down at the table and had asked, 'You still feel something for Stefan don't you?' and then Elena responded she was no longer in love with Stefan that's when red flags should be going off since it would seem as if Elena was saying that to make Damon happy. Just like in 4x07 with the red dress and him keeping her calm about Jeremy. I don't know how people can still blame the sire bond when the 'sire' himself isn't even there to influence anything. What is this a 24/7 thing and Elena is just in limbo or something? It makes me feel as if people want to have their cake and eat it too. When in Damon's presence Elena is influenced by the sire bond and when she's several miles from him Damon is still in control of her? 4x10 made things clear. We finally got the answers that have only just been assumptions before. We had Bekah 'compel' the truth out of everyone. I'm sure if Bekah had just sat there and asked questions and Elena said that line people would blame it on the sire bond. I'm glad the line was compelled out of her because even Elena herself was surprised. The sire bond only involves Elena and Damon so if the sire bond was influencing and clouding Elena's judgement then when Bekah compelled her about loving Stefan then wouldn't Elena have just flat out said, 'No'. to loving Stefan altogether? Better yet if she had said, 'Yes' to loving him and then 'Yes' to being in love with him then we would know that the sire bond is what's shoving those 'feelings' for Stefan away. But she didn't answer it like that and Damon wasn't there to make faces or influence her with words. Then there's the phone call. I know people think Elena said I love you because of the sire bond but wait why would it take till now for Elena to say it? She's sired, it would have made Damon happy. She could have said this in 4x07, or 4x08, and even 4x09. The writers waited till after 4x09 when Damon let Elena go to let her even say those words. No Damon in sight, he wasn't even expecting her to say that. 4x10 removed all of my questioning doubts about the sire bond after 4x09's confusing episode. I'd also like to say a bit about what Elena said making it not be a 'triangle' anymore. Elena said that she wasn't in love with Stefan not that she didn't love him at all. She said she still loves him and therefore she loves both brothers and the triangle is there. I mean being a Delena fan for three seasons it hardly felt like a triangle at all. It was always Elena and Stefan as the couple in love with Damon on the side getting hurt. We never had any indication that Elena even loved Damon. He was always the third wheel getting the short end of the stick and the brute of Elena's anger. Whenever asked about Damon the answer was always, 'I don't know' or 'I care about you'. Elena was always with Stefan up until this point for nearly three seasons and it never felt like a true triangle only a couple in love with another guy on the side trying to 'mess things up' for said couple. If Elena had admitted that no she didn't love Stefan or that she only cared about him then I could see the complaint but she still admitted to loving him.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 11:51:00 GMT -5
See this is my thing. Nandi said this: and I rewatched the scene
She said In order for the Sirebond to happen the human had to have human feelings for her sire before she turned. Vampirism only heightens those feelings. She never went further on to explain about the sire bond effects. She never said it only affects her actions or any other side effects.
I usually try to see the show for what it is. Im not biased of any character. I tend to defend Stefan a little more because sometimes theres so much hate towards him.
We all knew Elena had/has feelings for Damon while she was human. NO one knew the extent of her feelings though
Damon was not around to influence Elena in this episode but it doesn't mean that her feelings for Damon that are on overdrive right now affects anything else.
Julia Plec confirmed via twitter that the sire bond was the cause of her lack of feelings for Stefan or the fact that they were dismissed so quickly.
I believe Elena can possibly be in Love with Damon but the sire bond IMO kind of put a block in what she feels/felt for Stefan
Thats where I stand on that aspect of the sire bond. JUlia has said it. THe sire bond is a grey area right now all we know is as much as the witch said and what tyler experienced.
And I get it about having to wait on the sidelines with DE and now i guess its SE turn but the sire bond hinders this if anyone wants to admit it or not
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 11:53:30 GMT -5
The sirebond affected how she feels for Stefan now. It kind of made her feelings for Damon go on overdrive. Wtf did Stefan do? One episode whefe she realized he went behind everyones back to get a cure and then helped turn Jeremy into a hunter bc jeremy was also in on it. Did he read all the paperwork no but he went with it. This whole gang has went behind eachother back for something and they seem not realize those plans never work. Did Stefan know the side effects of being a hunter? No At the end of the day Elena still wants that cure. She has not stopped them. Now they especially want it because they want to ALL break the sirebond. Now Damon is joining team klaus which means hes gonna have to.do some bad stuff again but its.ok Elena.knows about it. =-O Will she stay with Damon after? Im almost certain she will. But those feelings she had for Stefan will either come rushing in or pour out slowly and.maybe not come out at all. Then you all can thank.The sirebond for making it happen. See but your theory is still based on the sire bond affecting ones emotions. It cant make you fall out of love or make you fall in love with anyone. Where on the show has it said either? We have seen two times on the show where characters have said it does not affect emotions/feelings. Yes we see the characters questioning this but obviously they would. Damon doesn't believe he is worthy of love and then we have Stefan who doesn't want his love to be in love with his brother. Both would obviously question. Elena is as sure as ever. It's her feelings for goodness sake. Julie Plec is being vague even though she has put in "clues" and "hints" but she doesn't want to ruin the suspense so she has come out and said in one way or the other that the SB doesn't affect feelings then she is all vague in another interview. I have to go by the show. What I have seen. You think the SB will blow up in our faces and some magical rush of Stefan will pour into Elena eliminate Damon. That's pretty off base to me. But I chose to believe the evidence of the show. You haven't proven to me that the SB does affect emotions, nor has the show so why would I believe it has? This argument is just not going to work. I'm sorry Ruby but you refuse to even acknowledge the things said in the show because how could she fall out of love with Stefan? How could she possibly feel differently about Stefan once she turned and she watched him slowly move further from him. Have you ever considered that maybe Elena was suppressing Damon in her heart? That loving him the way she did made her feel like Kat? Possibly she chose Stefan because she knew he would leave... (DO IT) Erase my memory. She knew Damon would never leave her even if she chose Stefan. (I will never leave you again) There are a bunch of instances where Stefan even himself felt less connected to Elena. Maybe the sire bond made their bond not as close because Stefan could not help her. A boyfriend needs to be the one to help their girlfriend through crisis's and he couldn't. Maybe in that sense because she was bonded to Damon, Stefan felt he couldn't be there for her so he went to plan B instead of dealing with plan A and the pain of it. He could have still tried to make Elena the best vampire ever but he instead tried to fix her like she said. And obviously this is how Elena felt because of previous episodes or the writers wouldn't have written that in and I'm going to believe that the writers know ho their characters feel. So I'm going to say she is valid in her feelings about feeling like a broken toy. Stefan didn't know how to help her so he ran from that and went to option B. Which was cure cure cure. So instead of trying to fit himself in there and relate he went straight to fixing her. Yes that would tear them apart. But Stefan didn't fight for that part of her life. He gave up and I know he did because he sent Damon to that bridge to save her. She was about to KILL herself and Stefan didn't want to be there because he already gave up. He sent Damon. And what did Damon do? he saved her. How do you think Elena felt knowing Stefan sent his brother in her hour of need. In her hour of death instead of himself? You seem to think Stefan did everything to be involved in helping her be the best vampire she could be. But he didn't. He left a lot of it up to Damon to deal with bond or no bond and he was on his other quest. And she wasn't for the cure when she found out about Jeremy having to kill vampires and what it would do to him. She said it to Stefan. The only reason that's changed is because of the bond. So had Damon broke the bond would Stefan still be looking for a Cure? Still trying to make Jeremy a hunter to free Elena of being a vampire? Don't you think the rules change without the bond? When Stefan thought Damon "did the right thing" he was still team cure. That's what bothers me.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 11:58:21 GMT -5
Ruby you ALWAYS defend Stefan. ON EVERYTHING! No to be the bearer of bad news but Damon gets more hate in cyber world. You see the Stefan anger/hater from a few DE's on here and you defend him to us. But out there and on the CW Damon got sooooo much hate! It was a weekly debate/fight on the CW board with many ships about Damon. I remember people would make posting that he should just die, that he was nonredeemable, not worthy of love... I even remember people went as far as to make fun of Ian's looks... saying Damon had pock marks etc etc.
So yes we here because there are more DE's and the SE's I guess didn't like to debate with us because at one time we had equal members and for some reason one debate and I'm serious one debate made them leave? They didn't have to leave and I miss their presence but debates are just that....debates. So now our site is a little lop sided when it comes to ships. So you see a lot of Stefan debates here. But out there on twitter, tumblr and other sites especially the one where they post interviews Damon gets bashed HORRIBLY!
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 12:05:07 GMT -5
And don't get me wrong I think you are brave and mad cool to come in here and debate with us. No one else will... And I so love a good debate. So thanks for always doing that and keeping things interesting around here.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 12:10:40 GMT -5
The sirebond affected how she feels for Stefan now. It kind of made her feelings for Damon go on overdrive. Wtf did Stefan do? One episode whefe she realized he went behind everyones back to get a cure and then helped turn Jeremy into a hunter bc jeremy was also in on it. Did he read all the paperwork no but he went with it. This whole gang has went behind eachother back for something and they seem not realize those plans never work. Did Stefan know the side effects of being a hunter? No At the end of the day Elena still wants that cure. She has not stopped them. Now they especially want it because they want to ALL break the sirebond. Now Damon is joining team klaus which means hes gonna have to.do some bad stuff again but its.ok Elena.knows about it. =-O Will she stay with Damon after? Im almost certain she will. But those feelings she had for Stefan will either come rushing in or pour out slowly and.maybe not come out at all. Then you all can thank.The sirebond for making it happen. See but your theory is still based on the sire bond affecting ones emotions. It cant make you fall out of love or make you fall in love with anyone. Where on the show has it said either? We have seen two times on the show where characters have said it does not affect emotions/feelings. Yes we see the characters questioning this but obviously they would. Damon doesn't believe he is worthy of love and then we have Stefan who doesn't want his love to be in love with his brother. Both would obviously question. Elena is as sure as ever. It's her feelings for goodness sake. Julie Plec is being vague even though she has put in "clues" and "hints" but she doesn't want to ruin the suspense so she has come out and said in one way or the other that the SB doesn't affect feelings then she is all vague in another interview. I have to go by the show. What I have seen. You think the SB will blow up in our faces and some magical rush of Stefan will pour into Elena eliminate Damon. That's pretty off base to me. But I chose to believe the evidence of the show. You haven't proven to me that the SB does affect emotions, nor has the show so why would I believe it has? This argument is just not going to work. I'm sorry Ruby but you refuse to even acknowledge the things said in the show because how could she fall out of love with Stefan? How could she possibly feel differently about Stefan once she turned and she watched him slowly move further from him. Have you ever considered that maybe Elena was suppressing Damon in her heart? That loving him the way she did made her feel like Kat? Possibly she chose Stefan because she knew he would leave... (DO IT) Erase my memory. She knew Damon would never leave her even if she chose Stefan. (I will never leave you again) There are a bunch of instances where Stefan even himself felt less connected to Elena. Maybe the sire bond made their bond not as close because Stefan could not help her. A boyfriend needs to be the one to help their girlfriend through crisis's and he couldn't. Maybe in that sense because she was bonded to Damon, Stefan felt he couldn't be there for her so he went to plan B instead of dealing with plan A and the pain of it. He could have still tried to make Elena the best vampire ever but he instead tried to fix her like she said. And obviously this is how Elena felt because of previous episodes or the writers wouldn't have written that in and I'm going to believe that the writers know ho their characters feel. So I'm going to say she is valid in her feelings about feeling like a broken toy. Stefan didn't know how to help her so he ran from that and went to option B. Which was cure cure cure. So instead of trying to fit himself in there and relate he went straight to fixing her. Yes that would tear them apart. But Stefan didn't fight for that part of her life. He gave up and I know he did because he sent Damon to that bridge to save her. She was about to KILL herself and Stefan didn't want to be there because he already gave up. He sent Damon. And what did Damon do? he saved her. How do you think Elena felt knowing Stefan sent his brother in her hour of need. In her hour of death instead of himself? You seem to think Stefan did everything to be involved in helping her be the best vampire she could be. But he didn't. He left a lot of it up to Damon to deal with bond or no bond and he was on his other quest. And she wasn't for the cure when she found out about Jeremy having to kill vampires and what it would do to him. She said it to Stefan. The only reason that's changed is because of the bond. So had Damon broke the bond would Stefan still be looking for a Cure? Still trying to make Jeremy a hunter to free Elena of being a vampire? Don't you think the rules change without the bond? When Stefan thought Damon "did the right thing" he was still team cure. That's what bothers me. I'm done arguing about the whole sire bond aspect of feelings and actions and i will wait to it all plays out but Stefan didn't leave her hanging with the vampire thing. Stefan wanted her to be the best vampire she could. He was okay with Damon helping her in the cause because he was man enough to admit that he is not the best vampire out there and he couldn't help her in that aspect. How is that giving up on her? That was actually a selfless thing for him to do because a jealous and a bit selfish boyfriend would've said no absolutely no have someone else show you anyone but Damon but he didn't. He knows Damon is pretty good at controlling himself. Damon was suppose to even help him before they had their minor fallout. Stefan knows how compassionate Elena is and he knows what the killing did to him. He knew Elena would have a breakdown with her first kill. And was he not right? How Elena freaked out when she killed? When Stefan decided to go about the cure it was when he asked Elena about the College Party and She said she hated it she got caught up in it but she couldn't do it she didn't know if she was gonna survive this. Stefan wanted to do everything in his power to help Elena. The first time he hears about the cure who is the first person he thinks of? Elena. The key to help her escape an eternity of killing of having to turn off her humanity. She gets to live again be who she wants grow old etc The mistake I give stefan is that he didn't tell Elena about the cure right away. He didn't offer it to her to see if she would want to go that route of possibly being klaus' blood bag again. But he just thought theres a way out for the girl I love. TO avoid her going into the dark and possibly not coming back. Stefan messed up he did. He didn't put enough faith in himself that he could pull her out of the darkness or enough faith in Elena in that matter but All elena did with stefan was vent on how she wasn't going to manage this and he found her a solution.
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