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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 19:52:29 GMT -5
Okay well I do not one quote to give you but the fact that scene existed was to give us insight on what Elena was thinking. This is Elena's conscious.... compulsion may say what she believes to be the truth, but her conscious is undoubtedly the truth. Damon was there on that bridge because of the sirebond because Elena was not trusting Stefan as much as Damon because of the sirebond. When Damon saved her in that moment --- Elena's lowest moment she started showing stronger feelings for Damon----therefore influenced by the sirebond. If Stefan was there instead of Damon because the sirebond was not there and she trusted Stefan like she always does then that would not have been a thing... so I mean I can go episode by episode but as you can see the sirebond does have influence because of the situations it causes. Whether not it directly affects emotions... I am going to wait to make that decision. Sorry, I still don't see it. All I see is that what she thinks Stefan feels for her came out in the form of Katherine and that means absolutely nothing about her feelings for Damon so I'm not sure what your point or proof was. ugh I did not do a good job. I do not have tons of time, but I will try to explain why I think that scene is signifigant.... This shows the struggle Elena was going through. This was showing her emotions and what she thought. She in this scene did not want to be with Damon and would never say she loved him. She was visibly upset by the mention of it. She was struggling with what she believed Stefan thought of her and her being "Katherine" now that she was a vampire. It was showing the first signs of Elena feeling like how she said she did with Rebakah in the last episode. I think this has some evidence because this was a turning point (this episode) and from this episode on Elena detached herself from Stefan. I do not have all the answers and I do not have proof/evidence like you do, but I do not think I am being wishful. When I watch the episodes all I see is sire bond and I tend not to lok at this show wish rose colored glasses. There was a time a long time a go I multi-shipped so I am not one to deny DE completely, but this season this progression. This is the sire bod or at least heavily influenced by it whether it be because of situations it has caused or because it can effect the way she feels if that what makes Damon her sire happy. Obviously my opinion and yes I am speaking SE right now and I get the communication breakdown sorry guys.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 19:53:39 GMT -5
I still feel Stefan could have been there. In some capacity he could have helped in the situation. You cant blame the SB for everything was my point. Every time he chose Damon to go help her wasn't due to the sire bond is my point. Stefan made decisions too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 20:00:39 GMT -5
I still feel Stefan could have been there. In some capacity he could have helped in the situation. You cant blame the SB for everything was my point. Every time he chose Damon to go help her wasn't due to the sire bond is my point. Stefan made decisions too. You're right I can't blame it for everything, but I just hate it.... hmmm so I want to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 20:05:43 GMT -5
I actually do get what she's saying there, that Stefan felt Damon could get through to her better than he himself could and save her, which was the point of going there. She did stab Stefan so she wasn't receptive to Stefan at the time. His reasons for it could be just that or it could be because he was annoyed with the whole thing but I didn't really get that so much from it. I'm still trying to figure out the angle Teppy's coming at with the sire bond thing. Maybe we're having communication problems. She speaks SE. I speak DE. Just a little joke there to lighten the mood. At least I got the first point across!
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 20:24:21 GMT -5
Sorry, I still don't see it. All I see is that what she thinks Stefan feels for her came out in the form of Katherine and that means absolutely nothing about her feelings for Damon so I'm not sure what your point or proof was. ugh I did not do a good job. I do not have tons of time, but I will try to explain why I think that scene is signifigant.... This shows the struggle Elena was going through. This was showing her emotions and what she thought. She in this scene did not want to be with Damon and would never say she loved him. She was visibly upset by the mention of it. She was struggling with what she believed Stefan thought of her and her being "Katherine" now that she was a vampire. It was showing the first signs of Elena feeling like how she said she did with Rebakah in the last episode. I think this has some evidence because this was a turning point (this episode) and from this episode on Elena detached herself from Stefan. I do not have all the answers and I do not have proof/evidence like you do, but I do not think I am being wishful. When I watch the episodes all I see is sire bond and I tend not to lok at this show wish rose colored glasses. There was a time a long time a go I multi-shipped so I am not one to deny DE completely, but this season this progression. This is the sire bod or at least heavily influenced by it whether it be because of situations it has caused or because it can effect the way she feels if that what makes Damon her sire happy. Obviously my opinion and yes I am speaking SE right now and I get the communication breakdown sorry guys. I agree with the first part. It showed her internal struggle. I don't think there is any proof that this scene showed she didn't want to be with Damon. You could stick the scene where she pushes Stefan off her thinking he's Damon in there for some actual proof of that. I agree that this was a turning point for some reason although if she were sired when she turned it should have been immediately apparent which is really a puzzler and makes some of us wonder if she's really sired at all. The other theory is that she fell for Damon when he saved her but that still doesn't fit into the explanation that it is her human feelings, the feelings she had before she turned that sires her. So she was sired all along. What changed in that episode? Elena hit rock bottom and was going to kill herself and Damon saved her. Damon was the one who jumped in the water with her to keep her from burning. I think that made her choice of which brother to love more change or brought out her true feelings. I think it's independent of the sire bond because they said it doesn't effect feelings. But that's really just pure speculation and not proof of anything. All we know for certain is that the sire bond can't make her love him and that she had to have real human feelings before turning to be sired at all. Some of her actions were certainly influenced by the sire bond, but not her feelings. Those actions may have led to her feelings deepening for Damon but we still can't blame her feelings on the sire bond. Even in normal everyday life our feelings can change toward a person based upon our experiences with them. Being sired doesn't change that. I believe when the sire bond is gone she will be confused for a time but that she will still love Damon. The whole thing just slows any progress down.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Jan 18, 2013 20:35:31 GMT -5
Teppy, the reason Stefan didn't go is because Stefan already gave up and let his brother have the reigns on Elena. He could have went with Damon? I don't understand why it's either he or Damon. Why cant they both be there as a team helping Elena. Yes Damon was closer to her because he was getting through to her sire bond or not but Stefan didn't have to be the odd man out! Stefan's decisions also affected what was the outcome. Had there been no sire bond and it was truly just a Doppelganger curse then Stefan single handedly let DE get closer. He let the fact that his brother was getting to Elena consume him from being involved. He could have been way more involved but he was too bothered and just let Damon do it. There was ways he didn't have to be around the blood. Let's not pretended that he wasn't upset that Damon was getting to her and he wasn't. I feel Stefan can never win. STEFan priority was to Save Elena no matter what. He knew Damon could get through to her when he couldnt. He was man enough to admit that and see that so y he gets called out for not sticking it thru? Then he gets called out for not letting go?
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 20:59:28 GMT -5
It's been that way with Damon forever and even on the show, let alone with the fans. He can never win. So Stefan is experiencing a little of that I guess. Like I said though, I didn't see that scene that way, actually.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 18, 2013 23:53:09 GMT -5
Teppy, the reason Stefan didn't go is because Stefan already gave up and let his brother have the reigns on Elena. He could have went with Damon? I don't understand why it's either he or Damon. Why cant they both be there as a team helping Elena. Yes Damon was closer to her because he was getting through to her sire bond or not but Stefan didn't have to be the odd man out! Stefan's decisions also affected what was the outcome. Had there been no sire bond and it was truly just a Doppelganger curse then Stefan single handedly let DE get closer. He let the fact that his brother was getting to Elena consume him from being involved. He could have been way more involved but he was too bothered and just let Damon do it. There was ways he didn't have to be around the blood. Let's not pretended that he wasn't upset that Damon was getting to her and he wasn't. I feel Stefan can never win. STEFan priority was to Save Elena no matter what. He knew Damon could get through to her when he couldnt. He was man enough to admit that and see that so y he gets called out for not sticking it thru? Then he gets called out for not letting go? Did you read all of my paragraphs about this and the one where I was commenting back to Teppy? There is Teppy's comment then a long one then Teppy's then this one. I have a reason to feel like Stefan should have stuck through with Elena while she was having difficulty. No I did not want Stefan to give up then. i wanted him to fight for her during that time because that is what I'd do. But no after she and he broke up I felt he should have let her go. So yes he can win. It's not what your saying at all. Sorry not sorry. lol
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 18, 2013 23:59:57 GMT -5
Now see I was totally glad it was Damon who went to the bridge because I knew he'd save her. Stefan's reputation and that bridge, not so good and where does he draw the line on allowing Elena to make 'choices?' She chose to kill herself so does he put his hands in his pockets and watch her die? I'm sorry, but Stefan is not a good choice to be the one to make sure she lives. He let her go to her death with Klaus by shutting his eyes while she left with him (ugh). He let her die in the water because she wanted him to save Matt. (ugh again) Would this be #3? That was what I was thinking. Yay, it's Damon! Elena is going to live even if Damon has to move heaven and earth to make sure she does. If she'd have kept fighting him he would have manhandled her off that damn bridge and we know it! Stefan would not...
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 19, 2013 0:03:12 GMT -5
Dialogue from that video:
Kat: What does Stefan think about the new you? The girl he fell in love with is gone now. I was like you before you even existed. And when Stefan knew the real me, he hated me. And now he's going to hate you too. But at least you still have Damon.
Elena: Shut up.
I jut don't see where her feelings for Stefan changed or for Damon due to the SB in that clip. This was her fear. That she wasn't good enough for Stefan. That he would hate her and that maybe deep down he already felt a bit like that. She had no confidence in herself. She hated herself so why do you think she would think Stefan wouldn't too... deep down.
What is telling to me is that her conscious told her at least you have Damon and to me that means a lot. Her conscious is telling her Stefan hates her and he doesn't want to be with a monster but she still has Damon. meaning Damon would be with her either way. She said nothing about Damon hating her. This goes back to this whole Damon tells Stefan he would choose her either way and Damon telling her I will never leave you again. Maybe she felt Stefan would leave her and hate her. Many think the reason she chose Stefan was because she knew if she EVER chose Damon, she would lose Stefan forever and there is now evidence of this. Do It. Erase My memory. But she knew that if she chose Stefan, Damon would always be there. She didn't have to lose Damon. And we cant say this theory comes from the SB because it's about before that. Why she chose Stefan over Damon in 3x22. The fear was already in her!
It's an interesting theory one I was thinking about and now have leaned to since Stefan decided to erase his memory and now you pointed out that video shows me she knew that deep down Stefan wouldn't be there, he'd hate her but she knew Damon would. She yelled shut up because lets face it.... no one wants to hear that you are hated. I doubt the whole trying to fight her had to do solely with the Damon comment. I think Elena just had enough and she then picked on a touchy point and Elena wasn't going to play that game anymore with her.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 19, 2013 0:05:41 GMT -5
Now see I was totally glad it was Damon who went to the bridge because I knew he'd save her. Stefan's reputation and that bridge, not so good and where does he draw the line on allowing Elena to make 'choices?' She chose to kill herself so does he put his hands in his pockets and watch her die? I'm sorry, but Stefan is not a good choice to be the one to make sure she lives. He let her go to her death with Klaus by shutting his eyes while she left with him (ugh). He let her die in the water because she wanted him to save Matt. (ugh again) Would this be #3? That was what I was thinking. Yay, it's Damon! Elena is going to live even if Damon has to move heaven and earth to make sure she does. Oh no I agree with you. It was more for Elena's sake that I hoped he would try to be there more for Elena through her blood difficulties. I hoped because i saw and now see how it affected Elena. I root for DE but the pain that SE causes Elena still hurts me. I don't want to see her hurting even if that means Stefan is being the guy he should be or doing the thing he should be doing. I'm just saying that he should have attempted to help his brother save her that night. he should have not that I truly wanted him to.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2013 0:09:18 GMT -5
It was just another nail in the Stelena coffin.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 19, 2013 0:20:37 GMT -5
It was just another nail in the Stelena coffin. Think about it Doppel now that it's just me and you here... .Elena asks where were you Damon? .Damon tells her he will never leave her. .Damon rescues her countless times .Stefan left her during season 3. He almost drove her off whickery bridge. . She and Damon kiss twice and both times she tells Damon not gonna happen and he is still there. . She has to choose so she chooses Stefan. . Her concious tells her Stefan hates her now but she still has Damon saying... I would chose you either way. "I will never leave you". . Damon sticks by her after her choice. . Stefan becomes distant. . Damon saves her on that bridge not Stefan. . Stefan finds out DE slept together "Do It! Erase my memory". I'm leaning toward this theory so much! Damon through and through would never leave her side no matter what. It didn't matter if he had to hurt to be there. He wanted to leave in 2x02 but he couldn't. At the end of the day he cant detach himself from Elena. She knows this. He has told her this countless times. She was confident that if she chose Stefan she would not lose Damon. But then we have Stefan if she chose Damon what would happen? Well her conscious told her. he hated her and Damon...she would still have. Just like she already knew BEFORE THE BOND!!! The minute Stefan had the opportunity to have an out he was about to take it. He was about to erase his memory because she chose Damon and slept with him. She knew it deep down in her all along that she couldn't choose Damon because of this VERY reason. I don't know about you but I'm pretty convinced of that girls theory on tumblr who made this theory up before season 4 even aired!
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2013 0:25:34 GMT -5
But she made the choice before she turned and Stefan 'hated' her. I think subconsciously she certainly knew it but for different reasons. She said she never 'unfell' for Stefan which I take as meaning she was still 'in love' with Stefan at that time, but she did love Damon or she was beginning to fall in love with Damon at 'choice' time. It just probably came too soon, which was what we all thought when it happened, too.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2013 0:48:38 GMT -5
Dragging this over from the DE SS board. From Carina Mackenzie's Friday night chat: So she is saying what DEs are saying and she has been to the set and has insider info. But it doesn't take insider info to see it, as she pointed out. The show has told us. I understand SEs not wanting to face that fact and find a way around it. Lord knows I hated it every time Elena rejected Damon, but it is what it is.
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