proxi
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Post by proxi on Jan 19, 2013 1:31:47 GMT -5
I've just read the last pages and I guess I understand what Teppy was saying and it's a common attitude of the SEs: Stefan and Elena are the couple (I'm not saying the love story, because it doesn't fit) of the TVD, and to insert Damon in their couple, writers use this kind of plot devices (SB) to turn Elena to Damon, because there is no other way for her to love Damon by her own choice. For them, all these are forced to make Elena choose Damon, but in the end, when all this disappears, she will belong to Stefan again. Of course, we have S3, but that was a struggle between loyal Elena and passionate Elena. Like it or not, she has a moral compass regarding her relationships, that's way she has such a hard time accepting Damon. Again related to what was said above: Stefan chose a veeeeeery poor moment to stop involving Elena is decision making process. If he would have been straight with her about the cure, I'm sure she would have trusted him all along. It's good he respected her choices regarding her willing to live or die (pfff...), but he gave her no chance to choose a course of action for finding the cure. Is not the SB that made her lose the confidence in him. She stayed with him for 5 eps, but it was him who cut her from decision making process. So, actually, all ends with the moment when the SB was TRIGGERED. She felt love and lust for Damon in the first 5 eps (see the look in the beginning of 4x03, when she actually licks Damon's body with her eyes:)))))), but she was committed to stick with Stefan. I guess the common point to werewolf bond is the gratitude that triggers it, her being grateful to Damon for saving her life. So from that point on, she ACTED like bonded. But her feelings were there and just swimming to surface. Ergo, SB influenced her actions after 4x06, but that's just it. She couldn't love Damon just because he saved her from the sun. Come on!!!!!!
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 19, 2013 2:03:11 GMT -5
I don't think she was dead set on this idea but it is a theory out there about him not saving her from the sun but saving her from death! Death that she would have done to herself in her time of weakness and darkness. Many people think this triggered the bond or when she finally accepted that she cared more for Damon then she would ever allow herself! It's not far fetched and its a popular theory out there among the DE's! I'm not sure either way but its not a ridiculous thought.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2013 9:34:07 GMT -5
I've just read the last pages and I guess I understand what Teppy was saying and it's a common attitude of the SEs: Stefan and Elena are the couple (I'm not saying the love story, because it doesn't fit) of the TVD, and to insert Damon in their couple, writers use this kind of plot devices (SB) to turn Elena to Damon, because there is no other way for her to love Damon by her own choice. For them, all these are forced to make Elena choose Damon, but in the end, when all this disappears, she will belong to Stefan again. Of course, we have S3, but that was a struggle between loyal Elena and passionate Elena. Like it or not, she has a moral compass regarding her relationships, that's way she has such a hard time accepting Damon. Again related to what was said above: Stefan chose a veeeeeery poor moment to stop involving Elena is decision making process. If he would have been straight with her about the cure, I'm sure she would have trusted him all along. It's good he respected her choices regarding her willing to live or die (pfff...), but he gave her no chance to choose a course of action for finding the cure. Is not the SB that made her lose the confidence in him. She stayed with him for 5 eps, but it was him who cut her from decision making process. So, actually, all ends with the moment when the SB was TRIGGERED. She felt love and lust for Damon in the first 5 eps (see the look in the beginning of 4x03, when she actually licks Damon's body with her eyes:)))))), but she was committed to stick with Stefan. I guess the common point to werewolf bond is the gratitude that triggers it, her being grateful to Damon for saving her life. So from that point on, she ACTED like bonded. But her feelings were there and just swimming to surface. Ergo, SB influenced her actions after 4x06, but that's just it. She couldn't love Damon just because he saved her from the sun. Come on!!!!!! I'm not sure if your entire post was supposed to be from an SEs point of view or your thoughts but I'm going to takle some points that I bolded. One point 1, I see plenty of reasons for her to love Damon by her own choice. In fact, I believe she did love Damon but she was suppressing those feelings because of her loyalty to Stefan when she made her 'choice.' "No matter what I feel for you, I never unfell for Stefan," suggests she felt a whole lot more than she was letting on, even then. We watched her deny her feelings for what seemed like forever. We were certain she would choose Damon in that finale, but her loyalty to Stefan prevailed in that moment. Even in this last show when she said she loved Damon she looked surprised, like, "Where did that come from?" She had been obviously still suppressing those feelings, not admitting them to herself. Then she said she realized something when she was talking to Damon. It's kind of poor writing to have her be THAT out of touch with what she feels but that's what happened, she suddenly realized something, that she loved him. So, I don't think there was any need for the SB story at all. I think she could have gravitated toward Damon, something could have triggered that same revelation that she was in love with him. Hell, Stefan said it in season 3, Matt implied it. Everyone knew it, except Elena and Damon, which makes it even more stupid that everyone in the show has been acting like her feelings toward Damon are just the SB. As for point 2, I don't think it's good that Stefan 'respected' her choice to live or die. I think it was foolish. It caused her death, twice, and if it weren't for supernatural intervention she'd be dead as a result of Stefan not protecting her. On point 3, I don't know who is saying she only loves him because he saved her from the sun, not with all the other proof going back into season 3. It may have helped push Damon to the top, though.
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proxi
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Posts: 41
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Post by proxi on Jan 19, 2013 10:11:38 GMT -5
Actually, the first phrase was Stelena, the rest was just me:) Point 1? A very common opinion, which I've noticed reading various recaps of some Stefan stans. I KNOW she has plenty of reasons to love Damon, but the writers often made her reject his manifestations of affection, so maybe that's why they see him as a "roadblock" for Stelena. And I loved her reaction when she admitted under compulsion her true feelings. I guess she was as surprised as the others:) Point 2? It was mine, it was an irony, but I missed "" for the word good:))) Point 3? To say that she didn't love Damon before the SB just means to be blind. But I strongly feel that there should be some references to her feelings for Damon from before, when she was human. I'm convinced those feelings should be addressed in next episodes, because her rejecting Damon in 3x22 is still a strong argument against Elena's "bonded" feelings.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 19, 2013 10:33:13 GMT -5
Oh, so basically we agree There's a couple holes in the entire thing that I still don't think they've answered. One is the fact that she chose Stefan and the other is that even after she turned she was still Team Stefan. If she was sire bonded, why wasn't it immediately apparent? Does it take a while to kick in or something? It's unexplained. Another thing I wish we knew is when she actually fell in love with Damon, but I don't think they are going to answer that because they need to keep people wondering. It has worked as most SEs are still on the, "She's sire bonded so none of this is real," kick no matter what the show has said about sire bonds and if they said she loved him in season 3, that would blow their theory to bits. But I'd love to hear it and if she did love him, why did she choose Stefan? Sweetluv gave us a theory that it was because she knew it was the only way she could keep them both in her life which she made a point of saying that if she chose one she'd lose the other and she didn't want to lose anyone else. By choosing Stefan she knew she would still have them both because Damon had stayed by her side steadfastly and had promised to never leave her. I think this is an interesting theory but we haven't heard any proof to back it up as of yet. It still also doesn't explain why she told Stefan it was the best choice she ever made, especially given she was supposed to be sire bonded. So those are the holes that we don't have answers to as of yet. But at least we know now she is in love with Damon and since the sire bond can't force her to have feelings, it is real.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 15:50:02 GMT -5
Proxi I love your post. You said everthing perfectly.
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Post by auroracat on Jan 22, 2013 17:34:06 GMT -5
I don't "source" anything but the show, and I was vaguely remembering some different conversations (by the characters) on the sire bond. Could swear we got conflicting information, but will have to go back through and see if I can find what I am thinking about.
Tyler didn't have any positive feelings for Klaus prior to being turned into a hybrid yet he was still sire bonded to Klaus - as all the hybrids are. However from what we know sire bonds only occur with vampires when there is some feeling there before hand. Or at least those are the only vampire sire bonds we have been presented with so far. So yes, there is conflicting information about the sire bond.
This is why I think the sire bond between Klaus and the hybrids is different in some aspects than the sire bond between vampires is.
I don't think there is any denying that there were feelings between Elena and Damon before she turned; however I do think it is the sire bond that supercharged her feelings towards Damon and that the Elena who is so big on being allowed her own choice will wake up and become appalled at her behavior while sired to Damon. Not only in hurting Stefan but also in how she acted towards humanity in general, the way she treated her friends and Jeremy as well.
Big problem is going to come when Elena realizes that she doesn't like the person she is with Damon. We've seen the foreshadowing of this when Tyler bit Caroline because of the sire bond. Or at least I think that's what they were foreshadowing...
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Post by Slash on Jan 22, 2013 17:51:36 GMT -5
Big problem is going to come when Elena realizes that she doesn't like the person she is with Damon. We've seen the foreshadowing of this when Tyler bit Caroline because of the sire bond. Or at least I think that's what they were foreshadowing... Wait a minute here. Tyler bit Caroline because Klaus demanded him to. Tyler tried to blow off the order/neglect it but did it anyways. Ultimately, Klaus wanted it to happen and told him to do it. For Elena to get into that territory, Damon would have to give the order, and we know his stance on the sire bond and his likeliness to tell Elena to bite/hurt one of her friends 'just because' (he knows she wouldn't want to do this so why would he give the command/abuse the sire bond to do it?). Damon & Klaus are 2 entirely different beasts.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Jan 22, 2013 18:17:51 GMT -5
I don't "source" anything but the show, and I was vaguely remembering some different conversations (by the characters) on the sire bond. Could swear we got conflicting information, but will have to go back through and see if I can find what I am thinking about. Tyler didn't have any positive feelings for Klaus prior to being turned into a hybrid yet he was still sire bonded to Klaus - as all the hybrids are. However from what we know sire bonds only occur with vampires when there is some feeling there before hand. Or at least those are the only vampire sire bonds we have been presented with so far. So yes, there is conflicting information about the sire bond. This is why I think the sire bond between Klaus and the hybrids is different in some aspects than the sire bond between vampires is. I don't think there is any denying that there were feelings between Elena and Damon before she turned; however I do think it is the sire bond that supercharged her feelings towards Damon and that the Elena who is so big on being allowed her own choice will wake up and become appalled at her behavior while sired to Damon. Not only in hurting Stefan but also in how she acted towards humanity in general, the way she treated her friends and Jeremy as well. Big problem is going to come when Elena realizes that she doesn't like the person she is with Damon. We've seen the foreshadowing of this when Tyler bit Caroline because of the sire bond. Or at least I think that's what they were foreshadowing... Well I don't believe in the sire bond. i think it's fake!
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Post by beangelic1000 on Jan 24, 2013 20:41:41 GMT -5
As a viewer of this show I observed two things about the build up between Damon & Elena and Stefan & Elena. Even from season 1 they were setting up both Damon and Elena, but it was a gradual build up which came to a head in season 3. With Stefan it was different, he enrolled himself into High School compelling the secertary at the desk when she asked for his school records. Since then he simply dogged Elena's footsteps turning up everywhere she was, even at her front door steps. He kind of inserted himself into her life and eventually over a very short period of time, they entered into a relationship. Elena's feelings for Damon didn't come out of no where, it was gradually built up over the seasons, Stefan himself noticed that Damon and Elena were bonding as far back as season one. And he didn't like it. One of the things that I took in was that Elena's feelings for Stefan were along the lines of gratitude and that was the basis of her love. Therefore, now we come to the subject of the Sire Bond.
What doppelganger stated in her posts are spot on. The writers of this show have let us know that the Sire Bond doesn't affect how you feel only how you act. And there is no way you can get around this factor although some have tried. Elena knows how she feels, her confusion is due to people constantly telling her that what she is feeling is due to the sire bond, that is the only reason she told Damon over the phone about maybe it's the sire bond, but deep down she know that is not the case. Damon's doubting the sire bond is simply because he doesn't believe he could be that lucky not when it comes to LOVE. Stefan is pinning his hopes on it being because of the sire bond, because he doesn't want to face the fact that Elena's feelings for Damon are stronger then they are for him.
The Sire Bond itself.............What do we know about it? We know as we were told by the New Orleans witch that the person in question had to have had human feelings towards the person they are sired to before they were turned, and these feelings are then amplified as a vampire. We also know that the sire bond affects only actions not feelings. We also know that the Vampire to Vampire sire bond (not vampire to human sire bond as someone called it in an earlier post) is quite rare. Yet Damon has been fortunate to have had this happen to him twice in his life. First Charlotte from whom he severed the bond, because he didn't love her so this choice was easy, then Elena Whom he does love, so he got around the bond by sending her away.
If Elena's transition into vamparism had been a normal one, her feelings would have still been heightened, because, every human that is turned will find that strong human charecteristics and feelings will now be amplified, therefore, bond or no bond Elena's feelings for both Damon and Stefan would be exactly how they are now......which means Elena was telling the truth that she loved Stefan but was not in love with him, that she loved Damon and that was why she slept with him. Because, when she turned, that was how things stood with her feelings wise. The only thing that has come out of Rebekah compulsion is that Elena has openly voiced what she wouldn't have voiced in regards to her true feelings towards Damon, those she hid even from herself (suppressed), and to how much her loved had changed in regards to Stefan. Now that she has voiced them, she is now free to act on them.
However, the sire bond would not have come into existence in the first place if it wasn't for the feelings she had for Damon. Now that it does exist means that any command or suggestion Damon makes, Elena will act on it.................The only reason Rebekah was able to compell the truth out of Elena was because Damon was not in the room with them, had he been there the sire bond commands would have taken priority over the compulsion ones. It would take a very special person to over-ride the sire bond with the sire in the room, and that is not Rebekah.
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Post by vampirelust on Mar 11, 2013 21:26:37 GMT -5
I think the college episode highlights the sire bond effect very well. Elena trusts Damon to help her become a vampire in control. She doesn't want to kill anyone because it isn't her nature, but she almost killed Matt, and that pushes her to allow Damon to teach her how to feed without killing. This is something Stefan has still not mastered in over a 100 yrs of being a vampire. Her ACTIONS are guided by Damon, she feeds, she loves it, embraces and revels in it, exactly how Damon does. Then her emotions come into play when she sees Bonnie, who looks all disapproving, and she feels disgusted with herself. Then she runs to Stefan and tells him the trip was a disaster blah blah blah.
My point is, her emotions and actions were seperate. Damon could influence her actions, but not her emotions. Damon was present when she was crying to Bonnie, her emotions were genuine and she could not supress them even tough she had to know they would make Damon UNHAPPY. Damon must have felt gutted when she reacted as she did.
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