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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 17, 2014 8:11:17 GMT -5
Well I think it would be fantastic to show Stefan NOT changing, not growing, not improving. We all know guys like him, right? The fakes. The phonies who think they are fooling everyone with their bs but they aren't fooling anyone...well maybe Stefan has, but I would love to see. to the horror of the gang, that they all come to grips with the fact that Stefan blew into town, lied to them, especially about Damon (remember my long list of his lies from the CW forum? Well I do!) fooled them into believing he was this great guy and it was all fake! So now he's going to teach Elena how to be a fake...and maybe she'll be the first to realize it. Stefan is some kind of psychopath, truly. That's the sort of thing psychopaths do. They don't form attachments. They use people and when they're done, they move on. A huge clue is that as a vampire he's a Ripper. That didn't come out of a vacuum. Stefan at his core is an empty psychopathic person. Psychopaths are great at playing the victim so nobody suspects they really feel nothing at all.
I think we talked once about what Stefan would be like had he remained human and we discussed him being a serial killer. I could totally see him living a double life like so many serial killers do, murdering people and smiling at his unsuspecting wife and kids...
Maybe in the end of the series Stefan will turn out to be the big bad...maybe when they talked about an unredeemable villain they were talking about him...that would be the ultimate twist and I would love it...the framework is right there for it...and part of the audience is already fooled.
I totally agree. I was thinking the same thing last night actually. Watching him be so cold and calculating when he was talking to his boss, it was seriously creepy. I think it would make perfect sense for him to become the big bad, and I think it would actually make a really interesting story. I wish they would do that. But I don't think JP and CD have the balls to go there. They are no Joss Whedon. Yeah they'd have to totally want to deconstruct Stefan and you're right, they probably wouldn't go there but it would sure be a good story! To have the ending come full circle to Stefan being the monster, the pendulum swinging the other way...these brothers are so interconnected. I wonder sometimes if Stefan has only been playing good to be the counter to Damon and now he's lost his purpose for pretending to be good. It's almost like another Klaus situation with him right now. Now he wants revenge for whatever reason. It's not like this Ivy girl was the love of his life. She didn't even think he cared about her much, but now he's hell bent on killing Enzo at the cost of everybody around him. That's his new purpose. I think back to when he had his ripper bout in the Miss Mystic Falls episode and he said, "I don't do this. I'm the good brother." That was the role he had assigned himself for this 'life' he created for himself in Mystic Falls. But what if it had more to do with Damon than himself. Maybe it really IS Stefan's story...but not his story of redemption. His story of how he came to terms with who and what he really is.
Again, probably giving the writers too much credit for seeing this possibility and going through with it...lol
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Post by missmystic on Oct 17, 2014 8:23:28 GMT -5
I totally agree. I was thinking the same thing last night actually. Watching him be so cold and calculating when he was talking to his boss, it was seriously creepy. I think it would make perfect sense for him to become the big bad, and I think it would actually make a really interesting story. I wish they would do that. But I don't think JP and CD have the balls to go there. They are no Joss Whedon. Yeah they'd have to totally want to deconstruct Stefan and you're right, they probably wouldn't go there but it would sure be a good story! To have the ending come full circle to Stefan being the monster, the pendulum swinging the other way...these brothers are so interconnected. I wonder sometimes if Stefan has only been playing good to be the counter to Damon and now he's lost his purpose for pretending to be good. It's almost like another Klaus situation with him right now. Now he wants revenge for whatever reason. It's not like this Ivy girl was the love of his life. She didn't even think he cared about her much, but now he's hell bent on killing Enzo at the cost of everybody around him. That's his new purpose. I think back to when he had his ripper bout in the Miss Mystic Falls episode and he said, "I don't do this. I'm the good brother." That was the role he had assigned himself for this 'life' he created for himself in Mystic Falls. But what if it had more to do with Damon than himself. Maybe it really IS Stefan's story...but not his story of redemption. His story of how he came to terms with who and what he really is.
Again, probably giving the writers too much credit for seeing this possibility and going through with it...lol
lol yeah, unfortunately I feel like we understand these characters better than the writers do sometimes. I would love LOVE if they took the story there. It's a brilliant idea, seriously. I just don't have enough faith in them to go through with it. Sad, but true. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 8:28:35 GMT -5
What Stefan did to Enzo was a dick move! And I'm sure some fans will be like that's what he gets for killing Ivy! Stefan served justice! First off this isn't about Ivy, and as I hate the situation she was put in, she wasn't very important anyways and simply a plot device.
Also I don't even think this was about Ivy for Stefan, it was all about himself. Why? Because he said himself he wants Enzo dead because he keeps reminding him of his brother. After he kills Enzo, he wants to go off and play pretend again, he even had it set up to come back and get a raise.
Enzo was simply trying to get him to wake up and not give up on Damon. He doesn't want him out there playing pretend so he would prevent that for an eternity if he has to. Stefan just wants to stay in his little denial bubble.
Even Enzo was so over the fight and could have easily let that hunter kill him. Instead of Stefan getting concerned about the hunters, outside Mystic and concerned for everyone's safety, he still opts for revenge on Enzo.
I bet Stefan isn't even going to tell anyone about Tripp, give them a fair warning. Something Enzo would have done without hesitation once he finished with Tripp.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Oct 17, 2014 8:29:44 GMT -5
Yeah they'd have to totally want to deconstruct Stefan and you're right, they probably wouldn't go there but it would sure be a good story! To have the ending come full circle to Stefan being the monster, the pendulum swinging the other way...these brothers are so interconnected. I wonder sometimes if Stefan has only been playing good to be the counter to Damon and now he's lost his purpose for pretending to be good. It's almost like another Klaus situation with him right now. Now he wants revenge for whatever reason. It's not like this Ivy girl was the love of his life. She didn't even think he cared about her much, but now he's hell bent on killing Enzo at the cost of everybody around him. That's his new purpose. I think back to when he had his ripper bout in the Miss Mystic Falls episode and he said, "I don't do this. I'm the good brother." That was the role he had assigned himself for this 'life' he created for himself in Mystic Falls. But what if it had more to do with Damon than himself. Maybe it really IS Stefan's story...but not his story of redemption. His story of how he came to terms with who and what he really is.
Again, probably giving the writers too much credit for seeing this possibility and going through with it...lol
lol yeah, unfortunately I feel like we understand these characters better than the writers do sometimes. I would love LOVE if they took the story there. It's a brilliant idea, seriously. I just don't have enough faith in them to go through with it. Sad, but true. But just think about it...all those Stelena fans who believed Stefan was 'good' and all the characters on the show who talked about how 'good' Stefan is even when it made no sense to us from our perspective. What if they turned the tables on all of that? It would be fantastic. That's it, I'm going to Atlanta to pitch them this ending! lol |
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Post by missmystic on Oct 17, 2014 8:32:54 GMT -5
lol yeah, unfortunately I feel like we understand these characters better than the writers do sometimes. I would love LOVE if they took the story there. It's a brilliant idea, seriously. I just don't have enough faith in them to go through with it. Sad, but true. But just think about it...all those Stelena fans who believed Stefan was 'good' and all the characters on the show who talked about how 'good' Stefan is even when it made no sense to us from our perspective. What if they turned the tables on all of that? It would be fantastic. That's it, I'm going to Atlanta to pitch them this ending! lol HAHA YES!! You should do it! I want this ending so badly!!!! |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 6, 2014 9:48:02 GMT -5
Ran into this while I was searching around for something....Stefan you're an asshole. You spent years letting your brother think he was a baby killer when you knew all along the baby survived. Why? You are one twisted f***! Always sabotaging your brother and putting him down, when he spent the same years covering your ripper tracks so you wouldn't feel bad about all the death you caused...dick move Stefan!
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 10, 2016 11:50:40 GMT -5
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 10, 2016 11:58:46 GMT -5
So glad other people saw what I saw in the series...like wtf?
from: imheretofight
SE in s1: Stefan lying to Elena about who Stefan is
SE in s2: Stefan lying to Elena about who Stefan is
SE in s3: Elena pretending that Stefan was not lying about who Stefan is
SE in s4: Elena pretending that Stefan was not lying about who Stefan is
SE in s5: Elena lying to Stefan about who Stefan is
at least there’s some constant element in their relationship…
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 10, 2016 12:16:07 GMT -5
Somehow I just have a feeling this theme is going to rear it's ugly head again in the next episodes and I've been thinking on it. The thing that I think some of the fandom missed about Stefan is that from episode 1, he went about his smear campaign against Damon. He made everyone fear him first, hate him second before Damon ever even did a thing. He did it in such a way so as to make himself look like the good guy by 'warning' everyone about his monstrous brother. Stefan 'the Ripper' warned them about Damon...LOL I mean just think about it for a second....the arrogance, the audacity, the outright lies that he told to twist the story around and stack the deck against Damon while making himself look like a hero.
Does Damon do that to Stefan? The exact opposite. Damon downplays Stefan's faults to everyone. Damon covers up Stefan's mistakes. Damon tracks Stefan to try to help him. Damon refuses to take credit for any good he does and hides it from everyone. Damon believes the lies that the people he loves/loved have said about him. After all if they think he is evil, then he must be evil, right? He loves them so much that he believes what they say about him must be true.
These two brother could NOT be more different...one is good and one is evil but some people have the two mixed up...
by: mydarkershades
Stefan still doesn't understand Damon
Here is what I find interesting…everyone is congratulating Stefan for finally coming to the party and supporting Damon…but no one is really looking at what Stefan is actually saying and how completely damaging it is to the way that Damon sees himself.
Stefan: Listen.. I actually think that Elena is good for Damon. She makes him happy and we all know that when Damon is happy…..
Caroline (finishing Stefan’s train of thought): He’s not out there killing people, which I guess is a plus for mankind.
Stefan: Exactly. (5x12)
This is what I find so completely wrong about how Stefan thinks of his older brother, he thinks that in order for him to be good, he needs Elena…that with out her, he is a monster. Because when he came to town, after being around Elena…he changed. This idea has been projected onto Damon, so much so, that Damon himself thinks that it is true…that the only way for him to be good is to have Elena by his side. When in reality, Damon is innately good…because he loves the people he surrounds himself with so strongly, that occasionally it breaks him, but that aspect of him makes him an amazing person.
Stefan still doesn’t see this. This is reminiscent of the number of times Stefan has said…let’s leave the murdering to Damon. Because that is what he sees…a murderer, who was softened by Elena’s compassion…that the only way to keep him in check, is to have Elena by his side. Stefan still doesn’t see the person that Damon was before Elena even existed….the person that would have rather died than be without the woman he loved…the person that missed his younger brother and was willing to go to war, just to be with him…the person that held onto the fact that his brother would miss him after being sold out to Augustine, only to be left abandoned, but still survived 5 years of being tortured day in and day out…and the event that caused him to turn it all off wasn’t the malicious ways in which he was experimented on, it was having to betray a friend and leave him to die.
The fact that Stefan thinks that Damon needs Elena to be a good person….the fact that he is trying to get Damon together with Elena to keep him from killing, isn’t a good thing. Damon needs to be told…reassured that he is a good person. That he is a good brother…Stefan should apologize for what he has done and said to Damon…apologize for not caring where he was for 5 years, and appreciate the person that he is. Saying that he is better with Elena is extremely manipulative and undermines who Damon is…because the person Damon sees himself as is a monster…and when Katherine said those words to him…he believed him because those were the words that people have uttered his whole life…even before he transitioned. Because Damon has never felt worthy of love…and the best thing that Stefan can do for Damon in this moment, is show him love.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 11:55:48 GMT -5
Wow this was a trip down memory lane. I forgot Stefan had said some of these things, of course that's the thing with Stefan. The writing is biased towards him so gets away scot-free and can pretty much say and do whatever he wants without any character being able to call him out on anything. All of the bad things Stefan has done gets completely brushed over and forgotten and no one talks about it ever, in comparison to Damon where the bad things he does seasons ago still gets held against him and the characters constantly berate or make snarky jokes about it.
Though honestly, reading through all those gifs, yeah Stefan says these things, but he's also just a character on paper, made to say words written by Julie Plec. This is what Julie Plec believes of the Damon character, and Stefan is her mouthpiece to get it across. I think that's the most grating thing about it. That JP herself wrote these scenes, and moments. Like the sire bond line, JP wrote that disgusting line, made Stefan say it. And the stole my girlfriend line? The things Stefan says would be hilarious if not for the fact that it's taken as completely canon and everyone believes it. JP above all. She believes that Damon is a monster and there is no way around this biased writing. It's just unfortunat.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 12, 2016 16:54:52 GMT -5
Wow this was a trip down memory lane. I forgot Stefan had said some of these things, of course that's the thing with Stefan. The writing is biased towards him so gets away scot-free and can pretty much say and do whatever he wants without any character being able to call him out on anything. All of the bad things Stefan has done gets completely brushed over and forgotten and no one talks about it ever, in comparison to Damon where the bad things he does seasons ago still gets held against him and the characters constantly berate or make snarky jokes about it. Though honestly, reading through all those gifs, yeah Stefan says these things, but he's also just a character on paper, made to say words written by Julie Plec. This is what Julie Plec believes of the Damon character, and Stefan is her mouthpiece to get it across. I think that's the most grating thing about it. That JP herself wrote these scenes, and moments. Like the sire bond line, JP wrote that disgusting line, made Stefan say it. And the stole my girlfriend line? The things Stefan says would be hilarious if not for the fact that it's taken as completely canon and everyone believes it. JP above all. She believes that Damon is a monster and there is no way around this biased writing. It's just unfortunat. I've never watched such a slanted and frustrating show that I can remember where one character is never called out for his actions AT ALL. It makes TVD very annoying at times. He is not some perfect character. There are times that I think that JP is yanking our chains and she really doesn't believe all the crap she says about Stefan (and Damon) and somehow in the end it will all turn around but my hope for that has pretty much faded away. I wonder if the way Ian plays Damon pisses her off sometimes because he is likable and she wants us to hate him and love Stefan but most people feel the complete opposite. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 17:48:37 GMT -5
Wow this was a trip down memory lane. I forgot Stefan had said some of these things, of course that's the thing with Stefan. The writing is biased towards him so gets away scot-free and can pretty much say and do whatever he wants without any character being able to call him out on anything. All of the bad things Stefan has done gets completely brushed over and forgotten and no one talks about it ever, in comparison to Damon where the bad things he does seasons ago still gets held against him and the characters constantly berate or make snarky jokes about it. Though honestly, reading through all those gifs, yeah Stefan says these things, but he's also just a character on paper, made to say words written by Julie Plec. This is what Julie Plec believes of the Damon character, and Stefan is her mouthpiece to get it across. I think that's the most grating thing about it. That JP herself wrote these scenes, and moments. Like the sire bond line, JP wrote that disgusting line, made Stefan say it. And the stole my girlfriend line? The things Stefan says would be hilarious if not for the fact that it's taken as completely canon and everyone believes it. JP above all. She believes that Damon is a monster and there is no way around this biased writing. It's just unfortunat. I've never watched such a slanted and frustrating show that I can remember where one character is never called out for his actions AT ALL. It makes TVD very annoying at times. He is not some perfect character. There are times that I think that JP is yanking our chains and she really doesn't believe all the crap she says about Stefan (and Damon) and somehow in the end it will all turn around but my hope for that has pretty much faded away. I wonder if the way Ian plays Damon pisses her off sometimes because he is likable and she wants us to hate him and love Stefan but most people feel the complete opposite. Yeah you and me both. I've never seen a show that was this hypocritical about a character. When a character makes a mistake, they get called out for it and learn from it, but in Stefan's case he doesn't. He's a completely static character. I feel like if this next episode isn't up to par, then it might be time to give up hope to ever expect the writing to not be biased towards Stefan's hero hair. I mean it's already weird that JP sits down and writes these continuous anti Damon lines through Stefan. Does JP not get how the sire bond works herself? Because that line was completely nonsensical and definitely not something that a hero would even say lol. It'd be one thing if Stefan made these claims and the characters could actually retaliate, but most of the time they stare blankly or somewhere else. Like think of Bonnie in that scene. Her character has always been strongly opinionated whenever it came to Damon making sarcastic/snarky remarks she felt was out of line. But here she just looks down and doesn't say anything? Why? They all know how the sire bond works and Stefan is being extremely bitter over the fact. Damon would have been called misogynistic by the fandom for pulling a stunt like that but not Stefan. Why can Elena never defend herself when it comes to Stefan saying crap like that? As you said it's extremely annoying and every other show I watch nowadays just feels like a breath of fresh air from JP's writing. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 12, 2016 18:29:56 GMT -5
I've never watched such a slanted and frustrating show that I can remember where one character is never called out for his actions AT ALL. It makes TVD very annoying at times. He is not some perfect character. There are times that I think that JP is yanking our chains and she really doesn't believe all the crap she says about Stefan (and Damon) and somehow in the end it will all turn around but my hope for that has pretty much faded away. I wonder if the way Ian plays Damon pisses her off sometimes because he is likable and she wants us to hate him and love Stefan but most people feel the complete opposite. Yeah you and me both. I've never seen a show that was this hypocritical about a character. When a character makes a mistake, they get called out for it and learn from it, but in Stefan's case he doesn't. He's a completely static character. I feel like if this next episode isn't up to par, then it might be time to give up hope to ever expect the writing to not be biased towards Stefan's hero hair. I mean it's already weird that JP sits down and writes these continuous anti Damon lines through Stefan. Does JP not get how the sire bond works herself? Because that line was completely nonsensical and definitely not something that a hero would even say lol. It'd be one thing if Stefan made these claims and the characters could actually retaliate, but most of the time they stare blankly or somewhere else. Like think of Bonnie in that scene. Her character has always been strongly opinionated whenever it came to Damon making sarcastic/snarky remarks she felt was out of line. But here she just looks down and doesn't say anything? Why? They all know how the sire bond works and Stefan is being extremely bitter over the fact. Damon would have been called misogynistic by the fandom for pulling a stunt like that but not Stefan. Why can Elena never defend herself when it comes to Stefan saying crap like that? As you said it's extremely annoying and every other show I watch nowadays just feels like a breath of fresh air from JP's writing. Wanna know what's even more sickening? That they made Elena do this...I guess I'm sort of reflecting now on the things that I 'tried' to ignore so I could still enjoy this show but it retrospect a lot of these things were so far off what actually happened that I wonder if JP just came in every once in a while and rewrote the scripts not even knowing herself what had transpired in the show. These things were THAT far off from what really happened...I mean why did she make Elena kiss Stefan's ass? Oh wait, because she made EVERYONE kiss Stefan's ass despite the things he did to people. This was AFTER the Wickery bridge thing...is there a parallel universe on TVD or what??? The Ripper IS Stefan. They aren't two separate people...and I could live with Stefan being a Ripper and even not fault him for it, EXCEPT that it is always the elephant in the room. It is always glossed over in favor of Stefan the heroic...Stefan the perfect...Stefan the 'good brother' and the hypocrisy of ALL of that just makes me despise him all the more...add to that his smugness when he talks to and about his brother like he is crap on his shoe and I want to rip his face off most of the time. Give him a good ripping in return...LOL JP apparently doesn't understand that it isn't what the characters say, it's what the characters do that matters.      |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2016 11:39:55 GMT -5
Yeah not only did JP have to make Caroline screech in Elena's ear about how she hurt poor Stefan and talk bad about Elena's relationship with Damon all the time, JP also had to make Elena kiss Stefan's ass and stroke his ego. Like those gifs telling him how he was never a monster or such a protective and perfect boyfriend. Especially the line about how he told her right away about his vampirism lol. It got comical after a while since those were obviously all lies. I mean if he was so perfect, why'd they break up again?
It's as if again JP's bitterness coming into play that it must be made known that Stefan was the superior choice and that Elena is just settling for the worst option, being with Damon. As if Elena can't be antagonistic with Stefan. Damon's her boyfriend yet she still has to sing Stefan's praises. Why exactly? Heck even when Damon and Elena are together, those two themselves are made to mention how bad they are for each other at times.
Then there's of course this precious gem:
Stefan acts like he doesn't care yet he goes around saying things like Damon stealing Elena from him and her letting him lol. And why still talk about how bad Damon is for Elena if he really doesn't care as he says. Of course he manages to drag Damon's name through the mud as he always does.
The best part is Elena trying to reason with herself, telling Stefan how he isn't like this. I love how quickly Stefan responds, 'Sure it is. You've just never seen me like this. You don't know what I look like when I'm not in love with you.'
Also why the hell did Elena shake her head and stay silent after such a statement? What female would take that from an arrogant and dick-ish ex-boyfriend or husband and not respond in any way? I wish Elena was made to say, 'I should thank you Stefan. Thank you for showing me the real you. That our whole relationship was one big fake lie. I was feeling guilty before, but now you don't deserve any form of apology from me. And don't worry about telling him I stopped by. I'll tell Damon myself when I go to see him right now because the person who he is now when he's in love with me, is still the same person I knew when he wasn't.'
What's also grating about that line is how people like to make this claim about Damon. That he acted a certain way with her to 'win points' or something. Yet here we have Stefan, admitting it to Elena's face how fake he was, that the way she perceived him was a lie. But everyone brushes it off and still pretend that Damon is the one who does this, not Stefan. Elena herself didn't even get to retaliate or act like Stefan even made such a claim at all. In season 5 she still talks about how perfect or protective he is. JP is a horrible writer. If I happen to see JP's name appear on any new show I watch, I'm steering clear away.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jan 13, 2016 13:12:35 GMT -5
Yeah not only did JP have to make Caroline screech in Elena's ear about how she hurt poor Stefan and talk bad about Elena's relationship with Damon all the time, JP also had to make Elena kiss Stefan's ass and stroke his ego. Like those gifs telling him how he was never a monster or such a protective and perfect boyfriend. Especially the line about how he told her right away about his vampirism lol. It got comical after a while since those were obviously all lies. I mean if he was so perfect, why'd they break up again?
It's as if again JP's bitterness coming into play that it must be made known that Stefan was the superior choice and that Elena is just settling for the worst option, being with Damon. As if Elena can't be antagonistic with Stefan. Damon's her boyfriend yet she still has to sing Stefan's praises. Why exactly? Heck even when Damon and Elena are together, those two themselves are made to mention how bad they are for each other at times.
Then there's of course this precious gem:
Stefan acts like he doesn't care yet he goes around saying things like Damon stealing Elena from him and her letting him lol. And why still talk about how bad Damon is for Elena if he really doesn't care as he says. Of course he manages to drag Damon's name through the mud as he always does.
The best part is Elena trying to reason with herself, telling Stefan how he isn't like this. I love how quickly Stefan responds, 'Sure it is. You've just never seen me like this. You don't know what I look like when I'm not in love with you.'
Also why the hell did Elena shake her head and stay silent after such a statement? What female would take that from an arrogant and dick-ish ex-boyfriend or husband and not respond in any way? I wish Elena was made to say, 'I should thank you Stefan. Thank you for showing me the real you. That our whole relationship was one big fake lie. I was feeling guilty before, but now you don't deserve any form of apology from me. And don't worry about telling him I stopped by. I'll tell Damon myself when I go to see him right now because the person who he is now when he's in love with me, is still the same person I knew when he wasn't.'
What's also grating about that line is how people like to make this claim about Damon. That he acted a certain way with her to 'win points' or something. Yet here we have Stefan, admitting it to Elena's face how fake he was, that the way she perceived him was a lie. But everyone brushes it off and still pretend that Damon is the one who does this, not Stefan. Elena herself didn't even get to retaliate or act like Stefan even made such a claim at all. In season 5 she still talks about how perfect or protective he is. JP is a horrible writer. If I happen to see JP's name appear on any new show I watch, I'm steering clear away.
Same...I don't really watch TO...never really have, just seen an episode here or there and I won't watch Containment either. The way she writes is so frustrating and nonsensical. Like you said, Elena should have had a comeback for him fitting of his behavior but hell no, nobody ever gets to tell Stefan 'the perfect' off and yet he's a complete dick most of the time. If Elena had been able to say that I would have cheered. But instead JP made sure both Damon and Elena acted guilty as hell and as a result it made it hard for us to enjoy what little we got of Delena despite the fact that Stefan did the breaking up before Elena ever even got with Damon and Elena probably would have stuck it out with Stefan otherwise. She was THAT loyal to the douche that she stuck by him even after she was falling/fell in love with Damon in season 3. |
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