|
|
Post by Slash on Nov 11, 2012 17:54:09 GMT -5
Does she really have a tally of how many people have died to protect her, on both sides? Those that have died protecting her and those that have died at the hands of her protectors? I understand we're getting a 'special' look at the transition phase cause it's Elena and she's the main heroine of the series but please. Although I like that she was the one to kill Connor, the aftermath isn't to my liking. If she had this kind of reaction with an 'accidental' killing, fine but I feel Connor's death was justified and that her 'overreacting' is just that. I can only imagine what a wreck she'd be if she went through with killing Bekah and realized she didn't just snuff out one life, but thousands.
It really seems like a case-by-case basis with Elena and how she feels/reacts to some of these actions/decisions. She helped kill Finn and that killed who knows how many Vampires. Didn't care and she was ready to do it again with Bekah knowing all the details now. Connor was a kill or be killed scenario. If she had let him go, he would have been tucked right back in all of their asses again the next day with a bigger bomb or he would have started picking you'll off one by one and not playing any 'games'. Just outright killing you when he got you alone.
I think some of these Elena-Connor posts need to be moved to a new thread though to continue the discussion =\ Don't want to hijack this thread anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ruby2579 on Nov 12, 2012 23:39:07 GMT -5
changing topics because i didnt know where to put this but Elena's comment on Caroline not understanding how hard it is for her to be a vampire.... hey-ass-butt.tumblr.com/post/35020523765/basically-screw-you-elena-you-dont-knowlike really? Caroline basically got blind sided with being a vampire and didnt even know what was happening to her and she had it easier? she had to learn how to control herself just like everyone else. She killed more then one person and put her loved one in danger because she couldnt control herself yet she has it too under control.... -_- |
|
|
|
Post by Slash on Nov 13, 2012 1:04:36 GMT -5
Elena being Elena. Can't see the comment though (Tumblr error/servers down).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 7:54:30 GMT -5
changing topics because i didnt know where to put this but Elena's comment on Caroline not understanding how hard it is for her to be a vampire.... hey-ass-butt.tumblr.com/post/35020523765/basically-screw-you-elena-you-dont-knowlike really? Caroline basically got blind sided with being a vampire and didnt even know what was happening to her and she had it easier? she had to learn how to control herself just like everyone else. She killed more then one person and put her loved one in danger because she couldnt control herself yet she has it too under control.... -_- Is it just that one quote? It's kind of hard to talk about it since it's out of context. Although we already know that Elena is a different case. She has to feed from the vein every time and risk losing control and killing someone. Maybe that's what Elena means, Caroline can easily go to the fridge and get a blood bag. Although after those first couple of eps in season 2, Caroline's character has pretty much had it under control, more so than Stefan and Damon who's been at it a lot longer.  Again maybe when I see the whole scene I'll probably have a different thought on that. Much like that Damon-Elena-bed-gun scene, I try not to get too riled up over things we haven't seen the full scene of. Sorry to hijack the thread further  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 17:06:28 GMT -5
I do not care if this thread goes off topic.
To respond-- I do think that Caroline had it tough like you said, but with all of that (killing someone-almost killing Matt--being tortured TWICE once by her dad---She did grow into the whole vampire stuff fast in my opinion. I think that the writers were trying to acknowledge that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 13, 2012 19:32:00 GMT -5
Someone else who has my opinion but probably says it alot better than me (Tumblr: Truths-TVD truths-tvd.tumblr.com/post/35666857219/read-or-die-do-i-have-your-attention-good) : 'Some people also refuse to accept the fact that Damon and Stefan Salvatore are two people who are not human beings. As human beings ourselves, we will never understand where they’re coming from completely or why they do the things they do. But they are vampires; to survive, they need blood and I feel like it is a bit naive to believe that they will be moral ~humans~ who will never kill anyone or commit other inhuman acts (just like it’s naive to assume that humans will be perfect people who will never lie, cheat, hate, etc). THEY ARE GOING TO KILL PEOPLE, so let’s not act like it’s the end of the world when they do."Of course the show does touch upon guilt, humanity, emotions and turning off the switch, etc. so it's not completely devoid of these concepts of morality. But to me it's to show the journey, really how these vampires are going full circle in their long lives and have done atriocious things (both of them) but are finding their way back to a more humane way of living. I don't really think either one of them is any better than the other. They've both had their ups and downs and they both will continue to have their ups and downs. They are, after all, predators and their natural instinct is not to drink from a blood bag, so basically, they have to fight their nature all the time to not feed from humans and possibly kill them at times due to losing control as Elena just found out. She did not intend to kill Connor but she did have good reason to. When I think of vampires living amongst humans I think of it like a lion living amongst a herd of antelope and the behavior can be very similar, thinking of humans as little more than food, or like these vampires have discovered they can fall in love with a human, make friends with humans and everything changes, but that's what makes this story of vampires so fascinating isn't it? I think that's what we saw especially with Damon from his attitude when he first appeared to now. He had a predator's attitude and as a vampire that was normal behavior as he kept trying to tell Stefan at the time. Hanging out with humans, not eating them and falling in love with them isn't, but it has it's rewards and Damon learned that being a loner predator maybe wasn't all it was cracked up to be. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 19:54:59 GMT -5
This topic reminded me of this conversation between Elijah and Rebekah and I thought it kind of applied to conversation
Elijah: "My talk of virtue. When it suits my needs, I kill, maim, and torment. Even today, I terrorized an innocent."
Rebekah: "Elena is hardly innocent."
Elijah: "And I used your hatred of her to get what I wanted. Wielded you like I would a sword. My sister."
Rebekah: "You did it to protect us, Elijah, and rightly so! We deserve to live! We are better than they are."
Elijah: "Are we? Mother made us vampires. She didn’t make us monsters, we did that to ourselves.
and after reading that one I remembered this which I thought was interesting to think about now she has turned.
"I admire you, Elena. You remind me of qualities I valued long before my mother turned us. It`s not in your nature to be deceitful and yet when I asked you about your meeting with my mother the other night, you lied to my face."
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 16, 2012 8:11:44 GMT -5
Well I think Stefan's morality just got blown out of the water. He killed a hybrid who was actually helping him. He planned the guy's murder basically so Jeremy could finish him off and become the new hunter, which I think will turn out to be a curse for him. In any case I don't see how we could look at this as anything short of murder of an innocent.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ruby2579 on Nov 16, 2012 10:44:31 GMT -5
When i spoke about the morals i was referring to them when they were human. What the gang did tonight was no worse then what klaus did when he sacrificed jenna n killed elena to fullfill his purpose. He was the villian n now they play role of villians too
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 16, 2012 11:07:26 GMT -5
Yes, it was no different. That was the point. Stefan does not have any higher morals than anyone else on the show. That's a misnomer and like I also said, morals when it comes to vampires are not the same as humans. As far as how moral Stefan was as a human, I don't think we really know. We do know that he still lied saying he wouldn't tell his father but he inadvertantly did anyway. I don't think he would have immediately enjoyed being a vampire as much as he did had he had the morals that you imply.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 16, 2012 11:43:32 GMT -5
Yeah a life is a life and Chris was a good hybrid and they killed him. Chris helped them and Stefan let Jeremy kill him. I am glad Elena is healed and Jeremy would do that for his sister but at what cost? Is Elena's life more important than Chris's? It seemed so sinister to me especially because it was them doing it with Klaus. There is no difference to what Klaus did to Jenna than what they did to Chris. It was both part of a sacrifice. The only difference is the writers think it's ok to kill Chris because it was to save Elena but Elena is not an angel she is just a main character. Too me her life shouldn't be worth more than Chris's someone who ultimately was on the gangs side. AND just because we don't love Chris like we loved Jenna because we got to know Jenna doesn't justify it either. Stefan stabbed him and let Jeremy cut his head off awhile working with Klaus yet again.
I think the moral talk should just end with this group. NONE of them have morals. Caroline, Stefan, Jeremy, Bonnie and Damon knew about this plan. I'd question more so Jeremy and Bonnie. They are humans with humanity and went along with the plan. Bonnie knew what was going to happen and Jeremy did it. At what cost is it ok to save ELENA? At any?
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 16, 2012 11:51:15 GMT -5
Well yeah, at any cost. We know Damon would have done it, no question. But we don't go around trying to say he's this highly moral character. He's got his flaws and he will do literally anything for the person he loves. Now what will happen next? Obviously Stefan will want Jeremy to complete his tattoo so will he find more vamps for him to kill? He wants Elena human again and now probably even more so because he probably thinks that she will love him more again if she's human. I could see him going all gung ho for this plan. The problem is, who knows if the cure is really a cure? To a hunter curing vampirism means getting rid of it. Do they really want to take a hunter's word on a cure?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 16, 2012 11:59:17 GMT -5
I just added Damon because he was involved but we weren't debating his morals. We know Damon already would have killed Bonnie and let Matt die to save Elena so who really cares about a hybrid named Chris in his mind. It's the other so called moral characters that get argued about over their morals.
But yeah the cure is even more tempting to Stefan. Just because he broke up with her doesn't mean he doesn't still want her. He just wants her human. The human girl who loves him the most and the human girl who he loves the most. I do find it funny how he just gave up this time... He always seems to fight and now he says he cant do it anymore. I get that it's too much but I wonder how much easier it was for him as well because she is a vampire? Now he wont have to deal with a vampire Elena as much. He can focus on getting the cure.... I find it kinda sad. I still think plan A should be the here and now. make her the best VAMP she can be then plan B find a cure.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 16, 2012 12:16:29 GMT -5
Damon will continue to help her with Plan A. I think you are right though. He doesn't seem to really like this new version of Elena so much. Sure, he still loves her, but she isn't the person he fell in love with or the person he wants her to be. I think this was the best thing for SE right now so nobody gets further hurt because Elena has been getting so much closer to Damon and Stefan still doesn't even know about any of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ruby2579 on Nov 16, 2012 12:21:45 GMT -5
I do find it funny how he just gave up this time... He always seems to fight and now he says he cant do it anymore. I get that it's too much but I wonder how much easier it was for him as well because she is a vampire? Now he wont have to deal with a vampire Elena as much. He can focus on getting the cure.... I find it kinda sad. I still think plan A should be the here and now. make her the best VAMP she can be then plan B find a cure. I don't think it was him giving up, if anything he was being honest with himself and for her. He wasnt being selfish because him ignoring her feelings for his Brother and living like its nothing just to keep her would have been worse. He has realized that Damon can get through to her like he used to be able to. Does it hurt him? Yes but hes willing to let her go to let her figure out her feelings because lets get one thing straight. She still loves both brothers thats a fact but now its time for her to explore her feelings for Damon. And the fact that shes been keeping it locked up forever and now has admitted them, the feelings are going to explode everywhere. So Stefan is letting her go and if she returns then i feel he will accept her with open arms I really liked this episode because the honesty in the writing and within the characters. |
|
