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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 16, 2012 12:32:44 GMT -5
I do find it funny how he just gave up this time... He always seems to fight and now he says he cant do it anymore. I get that it's too much but I wonder how much easier it was for him as well because she is a vampire? Now he wont have to deal with a vampire Elena as much. He can focus on getting the cure.... I find it kinda sad. I still think plan A should be the here and now. make her the best VAMP she can be then plan B find a cure. I don't think it was him giving up, if anything he was being honest with himself and for her. He wasnt being selfish because him ignoring her feelings for his Brother and living like its nothing just to keep her would have been worse. He has realized that Damon can get through to her like he used to be able to. Does it hurt him? Yes but hes willing to let her go to let her figure out her feelings because lets get one thing straight. She still loves both brothers thats a fact but now its time for her to explore her feelings for Damon. And the fact that shes been keeping it locked up forever and now has admitted them, the feelings are going to explode everywhere. So Stefan is letting her go and if she returns then i feel he will accept her with open arms I really liked this episode because the honesty in the writing and within the characters. I'm going off the past where he fought and fought for her. Giving up is letting go. He did give up. he said enough is enough. I've been down this road and this time it feels a bit different to me. It's like he knew it had to end or it would be ended in a bad way. Sometimes giving up isn't a bad thing and I didn't mean it in a bad way and I don't think that he should have kept her knowing how she felt for Damon. I'm just saying I find it funny he finally now gave up after everything. I'm still curious as to how much of him giving up or letting her go was made easier by the fact that she is a vampire? |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Nov 16, 2012 13:11:31 GMT -5
I'm going off the past where he fought and fought for her. Giving up is letting go. He did give up. he said enough is enough. I've been down this road and this time it feels a bit different to me. It's like he knew it had to end or it would be ended in a bad way. Sometimes giving up isn't a bad thing and I didn't mean it in a bad way and I don't think that he should have kept her knowing how she felt for Damon. I'm just saying I find it funny he finally now gave up after everything. I'm still curious as to how much of him giving up or letting her go was made easier by the fact that she is a vampire? I dont know because even though he said enough was enough he let her go but I don't see Stefan giving up on their love I guess. And maybe it was just that he saw how much she changed becoming a vampire in the sense of her feelings and what she feels now rather then it being her blood lust |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 16, 2012 13:58:01 GMT -5
I don't think for a minute Stefan will give up on a "human" Elena. But he did just let go of a vampire Elena. I'm not saying it's the blood lust. I'm saying Stefan wanted a human girl. He said it in the very first episode of season 1. I really think the whole feelings for Damon made it easier to let go of her. I don't think he ever stopped loving her I just don't think he wanted a vampire girlfriend. I don't think after trying to help her and seeing how things had changed he really wanted this for himself. He will fight like hell for that cure so he can have that human girl back.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Nov 16, 2012 15:25:48 GMT -5
I don't think for a minute Stefan will give up on a "human" Elena. But he did just let go of a vampire Elena. I'm not saying it's the blood lust. I'm saying Stefan wanted a human girl. He said it in the very first episode of season 1. I really think the whole feelings for Damon made it easier to let go of her. I don't think he ever stopped loving her I just don't think he wanted a vampire girlfriend. I don't think after trying to help her and seeing how things had changed he really wanted this for himself. He will fight like hell for that cure so he can have that human girl back. But I dont know if we can say that. Yea he said that in the first episode and all but when she was going to turn in the end of season 2, she asked him why he never told her he wanted her to turn or something like that and he said i would want nothing more to spend the rest of my life with you but you never asked me so i knew you didnt want to turn. In the beginning of this season he was okay with her being a vampire teaching her his ways and stuff if anything he did look happy but he saw her not taking on his way and her changing emotionally so maybe it was that. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 16, 2012 23:06:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying you are right or you are wrong but of course a guy is going to tell his girlfriend that. Had he told her, when she thought she was about to die and become a vampire, NAH I actually just want you to be human and well um we can "try" this vampire thing out, Elena would have ran for the hills. Just saying.... He said exactly what he was supposed to say. If someone believes it?..... Well that's up to them and their own interpretation of who Stefan is.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 16, 2012 23:44:14 GMT -5
Or maybe he wanted vampire Elena on his terms, that she eat bunnies and not change any, because I think these are the two things he's struggling with now that perhaps he never contemplated when he said that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 9:17:27 GMT -5
I am sorry but blaming Stefan for letting Jeremy kill Conner coming for someone that supports Damon-- who killed Jeremy just seems a bit strange to me.
Was Damon feeling rejected more important than Jeremy's life?
Yes of course all their morals are little skewed being vampire, but the differences are pretty clear. Stefan (when not in ripper phase) does not kill people without purpose. Damon has been shown many time to kill people out of frustration and hurt feelings. Whether that is justifiable idk-- in my eyes that is what bothers me about Damon. It is why I can't back Damon as much as I can Stefan. Overall I think they do both have good intentions, but their are a few deaths that were just spiteful (lexi/jeremy/alaric) Yes, I do not blame Stefan for his ripper phase because I do not think that was him and I do judge Damon for these because it is rare he shows remorse for these acts. It rare he acknowledges he did anything wrong. I understand that is how Damon is, but that is the part of Damon I just don't like very much.
Back to the thread though...
Stefan DID not give up on vampire Elena. She just told him that she loved his brother. That her feelings for him have been magnified. He has had to accept this for 3 seasons, but I think her leaning on Damon since transitioning was more than he could take because what was making their relationship more significant at that point? Elena was not trusting him, she was leaning on Damon for support, so where did that leave Stefan. Who would blame him for breaking up with her. She wasn't going to to do it and honestly at this point in the story it is what she needed. I think it was pretty selfless actually.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 17, 2012 9:29:39 GMT -5
I beg to differ. Damon did show remorse for the people he killed. He spent a long time making up for what he did to Jeremy. Now that Elena killed Jeremy, too, I think that score is settled. If we want to go the 'killing with a purpose' route than Lexi does fall under that. He killed her so she'd be blamed for the vampire attacks in town. But I don't go the 'purpose' route. Stefan has probably killed more people than any of them and I DO blame him for what he did during his Ripper days. He doesn't get a free pass for that. "Oh, I couldn't help it," is not a defense in any court. As for Chris, he stabbed him first so Jeremy could chop off his head. If that had been Damon, I can imagine the outcry, but since it was Stefan, I guess it's OK?
It's the double standard I see with Stefan fans that bugs me more than anything, I think. If you all would just admit Stefan has done abominable things and is no better than anyone else on the show, in other words, face reality, then we'd all get along alot better, I think.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 17, 2012 10:18:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry but killing someone for a purpose or not is still killing and still wrong. I don't care who the heck it's for if an innocent life is taken both killings are wrong. I'm not defending what Damon did to Jeremy. I'm still on the denial team that Damon saw his ring. I'm still bothered that the writers wrote that. And I'm never going to say it was ok bc he killed jer for no reason. Just bc I love a character doesn't mean I will ever excuse all his flaws and actions or have reasons to defend them. Damon was wrong. But since then he has been making the hell up for it with both Gilbert's! Jeremy, Elena and ric forgave him for that stupid decision and he still helps the two out as much as possible even gaining a relationship with Jeremy that's kinda big brother like. Jeremy trusts Damon and we have seen this time and again. So past is past. I don't excuse what he did but the characters have forgiven and moved on. Right now it's about Stefan and questioning his actions regardless of Damon's past. So bc Damon did something stupid that I don't excuse as a DE I can't have an issue or any DE can't have an issue with the current storyline surrounding Stefan? I think not.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Nov 17, 2012 10:25:33 GMT -5
Back to Elena and Stefan I think he should have broke up with her. I'm over the moon that he did. I just want to know what part of the break up was him being fed up about DE and what part was relief because he didn't want this for himself because of who HE is and what HE wants daily in a relationship in regards to her being a vampire. I'm seeing that I won't get an answer from an SE and that's ok. I'm just gonna have to try and tweet a writer or wait until the season progresses. I'm just going off of what Stefan has said in the past what he told care, what he wrote in his diary and what he wrote that prompted that question from Damon.
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liajones
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It's the ultimate secret, Elena. You'll be happy as never before. And we'll be together, you and I.
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Post by liajones on Nov 17, 2012 11:39:51 GMT -5
I do agree, Stefan let go of Elena really easily as though he's relieved. True, he broke up with her in part because of her hew feelings for Damon but I also think that Stefan can't be around her because she hasn't adopted the bunny diet like he did, remember the scene in the woods, he can't share blood with her. she just reminds him of his ripper days and how he failed in controlling his blood lust. I think if she were still human he wouldn't have had the same reaction. He was supposed to help her in her vamp journey instead he went onto looking for the cure, he should have helped her control her urges, but in the end Stefan never controls his so he ran after Klaus on a might be cure. he wants to change her more than helping her be comfortable in her new skin.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 17, 2012 13:11:56 GMT -5
When Stefan called Care and it showed his phone it said: "I need a vampire to kill. I'll turn someone if I have to."
Does this sound like a guy who doesn't kill innocents? I think we will see as Stefan becomes more desperate to get to this cure that he is just as willing to do anything as Damon is. I just don't understand why some people refuse to see it and admit it. Stefan will kill innocent people. His morals are not what keeps him from feeding on humans. He doesn't because he can't control himself not because he thinks it's wrong.
The only time he's ever acted like it was wrong is when it was Damon doing it and that's because he had and has a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda to always make his brother look bad in his eyes and everyone around him's eyes. I think at the end of the day Stefan knows Damon is superior to him in every way so that's his way of trying to win/even the score and it worked for a long time with the people of MF.
I was really happy when Elena finally called him on his s*** and said, "Don't make this about Damon." That's all Stefan ever does, find ways to put Damon down and make him look inferior. It just shows how insecure he is.
Personally I love the new Elena. The fact that Stefan doesn't is probably a good thing in my book. I think as time goes on she will become more comfortable with her new stronger more confident self and won't hate being a vampire anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 13:34:46 GMT -5
This thread should not be in the debate thread I think much of it should be moved to the anti-stefan thread tbh
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Post by Doppelgänger on Nov 17, 2012 13:38:14 GMT -5
Not when there are still opinions coming in that disagree with what we are saying. The whole purpose of a debate thread is to debate an issue. In the anti-threads there are no debates. I suppose if nobody challenges it with their own side of things the thread will just die naturally.
In your second post you brought up Stefan's morals as a basis for why he has trouble with Elena being a vampire and feeding on people. Alot of us do not believe that and Damon obviously doesn't believe it, thus saying what he said that started the debate. Damon believes that it's Stefan's issues that are giving him trouble with accepting Elena as a vampire and what Stefan said to Care seems to back that up.
This is why I gave a ton of examples to disprove Stefan's moral position on killing and he was good enough to give us a big old one this last episode. It isn't about his morals.
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liajones
Full Member
It's the ultimate secret, Elena. You'll be happy as never before. And we'll be together, you and I.
Posts: 170
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Post by liajones on Nov 17, 2012 13:44:40 GMT -5
ya the message he sent to Caroline shocked me, is that the extent that Stefan will reach to bring human Elena back. the last thing she did b4 she died was to save Matt at the cost of her life and Stefan succumbed to that. But to keep her undead he was willing to kill an innocent then break up with her shortly after! I agree that Stefan doesn't drink human blood cuz he can't control himself not cuz he's a vamp vegan. Stefan's job from now on is to keep Elena alive until he can find a cure to bring the girl he loved back. and he will go to every extent to accomplish that. Vampirism doesn't seem black and white anymore, does it Stefan?  |
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