kate
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Posts: 112
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Post by kate on Feb 4, 2013 20:50:43 GMT -5
I think the best way to see the difference in being the bad guy isn't by all seasons combined but by season.
Season 2 Damon vs Season 2 Klaus
Season 3 Damon vs Season 3 Klaus
Season 4 Damon vs Season 4 Klaus thus far.
reasons for their actions and what they wanted to gain in some cases have changed from season to season.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 20:52:38 GMT -5
But we are not discussing Stefan in this debate. I just wanted to analyze the bad things that Klaus and Damon have done regarding the conversation they had in 4x12 We didnt have to use the word Villain or who's done worse and we didnt have to just see who has actually done the deed and killed. It wasnt intent on bashing neither character. it was to see if what both damon n klaus said about being debatable could actually be debatable Well I'm discussing Stefan cause if we want to talk bad it's relevant...I don't like hypocrisy and I will point it out when I see it. Well we could debate Damon and Stefan being bad in a seperate thread and call it battle of the brothers    and see how that thread goes which would probably turn into war world 3  I dont know if I want to step into that lol but here im specifically discussing the bad things that Klaus and Damon have done. I just wanted peoples thoughts if the parts they said could be debatable could actually be debatable. And I think they both could because Damon has not done worse things then Klaus and Klaus has not done every bad thing to just be a dick. But I see looking at the bad damon has done in the past or present is kind of a sensitive subject especially him being compared to big bad klaus so I dont know anymore |
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Post by Ravenwing on Feb 4, 2013 20:53:06 GMT -5
We can only base our opinions on characters on what we have seen/know of their past - so my analysis is based on what I know about Klaus. I'm not going to speculate. I'll believe he has a conscience when I see it. So far I've only seen a desperation for Caroline to like him and that's not enough for me. But honestly I'm fine with it because he's a villain and that's what I like about him... Oh I have seen many moments of vulnerability with Klaus that have nothing to do with Caroline. I think Season 2 was pretty much laid out what has made Klaus the person he is... and I think it showed that he does have feelings and emotions attached to his family even if he does not show it often. I was not speculating I gave a specific scene to reference. I agree he has feelings/emotions attached to his family. You could tell when he saw Kol burning. But feelings/emotions do not automatically equal a conscience or remorse. How many times has he stabbed those family members he loves so much? If Kol hadn't died, Klaus would have daggered him himself. I don't blame Rebekah for hating his guts after how he has treated her and the rest of their family. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 20:55:44 GMT -5
I said that he can be forgiven but no stefan can't make up for that. He can't make that okay. That's the difference Stefan knows that. How do we know Stefan knows that? He goes around like he's done nothing wrong most of the time or that Damon is worse than he is. Apparently he forgot. As far as Damon goes, he had done what he can to make up for it. He doesn't care if they ever change their minds about it and consequently he's never asked them to so I believe he gets that they may never forgive him or conversely that he won't be able to 'make it up' to them. because he has said it. I am monster Elena this is who I am. This is what the blood makes me. OR When Elena finds him in S3 he says that things will never be the same because of the things that he has done ... the list goes on. |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 20:57:41 GMT -5
I just find it a little hard to swallow when fans of the Ripper of Monterey want to talk about how 'bad' Damon is or even comparable to the current villian on the show. If we're gonna scale it I think it would be Klaus on top at villian (he has 1000 years under his belt after all), then Stefan for killing hundreds of innocent people inhumanely, then Damon and I don't see how anyone could argue with THAT. I take offense to that because Fans of Damon (I wont identify him by something horrible he has done) call Stefan on all his crap when Damon has done a share of his own personal bad things. But since Damon cannot be discussed here without bringing up Stefans share of bad things into the discussion I dont think i will go any further with this debate unless people discuss Damon and Klaus. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 20:57:50 GMT -5
It's hard to do that Kate as they don't have comparable screen time in all seasons nor were at the same point in their redemption journey (in Damon's case) at the same time. Klaus is only just now even thinking through the possibility that he might be doing something wrong and he still threatened to murder the Gilberts at the end of the last episode. Now granted he just watched his brother die but Kol did go after them. That was his mistake.
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Post by Ravenwing on Feb 4, 2013 21:00:08 GMT -5
If this turns into a Damon Vs. Stefan thread things are going to turn dark real quick so I think I'm going to bite my tongue (or stop my fingers) and excuse myself.
But in synopsis of my opinion on Damon Vs. Klaus:
Klaus = villain; Damon = anti-hero
Damon has a conscience. Klaus does not.
And I love them both. Never change boys! Never change.
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:00:18 GMT -5
Oh I have seen many moments of vulnerability with Klaus that have nothing to do with Caroline. I think Season 2 was pretty much laid out what has made Klaus the person he is... and I think it showed that he does have feelings and emotions attached to his family even if he does not show it often. I was not speculating I gave a specific scene to reference. I agree he has feelings/emotions attached to his family. You could tell when he saw Kol burning. But feelings/emotions do not automatically equal a conscience or remorse. How many times has he stabbed those family members he loves so much? If Kol hadn't died, Klaus would have daggered him himself. I don't blame Rebekah for hating his guts after how he has treated her and the rest of their family. Klaus does have feelings for his family but Klaus also has OCD when it comes to loyalty and its something huge he values but he can also be bias about it when it comes to him pledging his loyalty to his familia |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:00:32 GMT -5
I just find it a little hard to swallow when fans of the Ripper of Monterey want to talk about how 'bad' Damon is or even comparable to the current villian on the show. If we're gonna scale it I think it would be Klaus on top at villian (he has 1000 years under his belt after all), then Stefan for killing hundreds of innocent people inhumanely, then Damon and I don't see how anyone could argue with THAT. I take offense to that because Fans of Damon (I wont identify him by something horrible he has done) call Stefan on all his crap when Damon has done a share of his own personal bad things. But since Damon cannot be discussed here without bringing up Stefans share of bad things into the discussion I dont think i will go any further with this debate unless people discuss Damon and Klaus. This thread is just Damon bashing in disguise. You're an SE fan so I figure you'd know a villian when you see one in the form of Stefan. The point was they've all had their moments in their lives. Some have attempted to do better, both Stefan and Damon. So far, not Klaus. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:03:01 GMT -5
If this turns into a Damon Vs. Stefan thread things are going to turn dark real quick so I think I'm going to bite my tongue (or stop my fingers) and excuse myself. But in synopsis of my opinion on Damon Vs. Klaus: Klaus = villain; Damon = anti-hero Damon has a conscience. Klaus does not. And I love them both. Never change boys! Never change. Very well put and not long winded...good job! |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:04:22 GMT -5
If this turns into a Damon Vs. Stefan thread things are going to turn dark real quick so I think I'm going to bite my tongue (or stop my fingers) and excuse myself. But in synopsis of my opinion on Damon Vs. Klaus: Klaus = villain; Damon = anti-hero Damon has a conscience. Klaus does not. And I love them both. Never change boys! Never change. Agreed...And Ive always Seen Damon as the Anti Hero after Season 1 he refuses to see himself as the hero as well. And in a previous Klaus and Damon Convo Klaus told him (paraphrasing here) The thing is you thought about turning people into vampires so Jeremy could kill them but you didnt do it because you want to take the highroad for Elena. And thats another difference between Damon and Klaus. Damon is willing to take the high road even though its hard for him but he does it because he loves Elena. Klaus doesnt care what he has to do to get things done he does it. Im surprised they even showed us he was concerned on what Caroline thought at the fact he killed her momma in law. Caroline has betrayed Klaus several times being used as Klaus bait and he kind of just dismisses it |
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Post by Ravenwing on Feb 4, 2013 21:06:02 GMT -5
If this turns into a Damon Vs. Stefan thread things are going to turn dark real quick so I think I'm going to bite my tongue (or stop my fingers) and excuse myself. But in synopsis of my opinion on Damon Vs. Klaus: Klaus = villain; Damon = anti-hero Damon has a conscience. Klaus does not. And I love them both. Never change boys! Never change. Very well put and not long winded...good job! Thank you. And you know I'm always up for an anti-Stefan rant if you want to take it elsewhere! LOL  |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:06:39 GMT -5
I take offense to that because Fans of Damon (I wont identify him by something horrible he has done) call Stefan on all his crap when Damon has done a share of his own personal bad things. But since Damon cannot be discussed here without bringing up Stefans share of bad things into the discussion I dont think i will go any further with this debate unless people discuss Damon and Klaus. This thread is just Damon bashing in disguise. You're an SE fan so I figure you'd know a villian when you see one in the form of Stefan. The point was they've all had their moments in their lives. Some have attempted to do better, both Stefan and Damon. So far, not Klaus. See but the thing is im a pretty liberal SE Fan meaning I am able to see the show for it overall not just in the eyes of an SE fan. IM a TVD fan first before anything. I wasnt using this discussion to bash Damon nor Bash Klaus. I love both characters so y would I want to do that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:06:48 GMT -5
I just find it a little hard to swallow when fans of the Ripper of Monterey want to talk about how 'bad' Damon is or even comparable to the current villian on the show. If we're gonna scale it I think it would be Klaus on top at villian (he has 1000 years under his belt after all), then Stefan for killing hundreds of innocent people inhumanely, then Damon and I don't see how anyone could argue with THAT. Well Stefan did not ask to be a ripper or a vampire. That was not his choice. He has been trying to fight these things and he has become better and better. He has never shown that he does not acknowledged that what he did was wrong or awful or inhumane AND he has shown to regret it and hate himself for it. AND he has shown when it comes to Elena he will fight it better than anyone could because he loves her and his love for Elena helps him fight that darkness inside of him. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:07:53 GMT -5
I take offense to that because Fans of Damon (I wont identify him by something horrible he has done) call Stefan on all his crap when Damon has done a share of his own personal bad things. But since Damon cannot be discussed here without bringing up Stefans share of bad things into the discussion I dont think i will go any further with this debate unless people discuss Damon and Klaus. This thread is just Damon bashing in disguise. You're an SE fan so I figure you'd know a villian when you see one in the form of Stefan. The point was they've all had their moments in their lives. Some have attempted to do better, both Stefan and Damon. So far, not Klaus. Well us Se fans could say the same about every Stefan debate thread ever made here lol but no I do not think that was the intent. |
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