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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:08:42 GMT -5
How do we know Stefan knows that? He goes around like he's done nothing wrong most of the time or that Damon is worse than he is. Apparently he forgot. As far as Damon goes, he had done what he can to make up for it. He doesn't care if they ever change their minds about it and consequently he's never asked them to so I believe he gets that they may never forgive him or conversely that he won't be able to 'make it up' to them. because he has said it. I am monster Elena this is who I am. This is what the blood makes me. OR When Elena finds him in S3 he says that things will never be the same because of the things that he has done ... the list goes on. Well I don't see him saying he can't be forgiven for it. He called himself the 'good brother' for gosh sakes, like it never happened and he attempted to start a life to 'start over new', 'forget the past.' But I will leave it there because it isn't a Stefan thread. I only brought him into it to show how many of them have done things that might be considered unforgiveable if we want to be that way about it. Klaus to me has not started any real redemption as of yet. He certainly could and if he succeeded I wouldn't hold his past against him but right now his past is his present. |
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Post by Ravenwing on Feb 4, 2013 21:09:01 GMT -5
If this turns into a Damon Vs. Stefan thread things are going to turn dark real quick so I think I'm going to bite my tongue (or stop my fingers) and excuse myself. But in synopsis of my opinion on Damon Vs. Klaus: Klaus = villain; Damon = anti-hero Damon has a conscience. Klaus does not. And I love them both. Never change boys! Never change. Agreed...And Ive always Seen Damon as the Anti Hero after Season 1 he refuses to see himself as the hero as well. And in a previous Klaus and Damon Convo Klaus told him (paraphrasing here) The thing is you thought about turning people into vampires so Jeremy could kill them but you didnt do it because you want to take the highroad for Elena. And thats another difference between Damon and Klaus. Damon is willing to take the high road even though its hard for him but he does it because he loves Elena. Klaus doesnt care what he has to do to get things done he does it. Im surprised they even showed us he was concerned on what Caroline thought at the fact he killed her momma in law. Caroline has betrayed Klaus several times being used as Klaus bait and he kind of just dismisses it  " style="width:auto;"] Agree with all. And I DO like that Caroline seems to be Klaus's one weakness. It's the chink in his armor. It's the thing that humanizes him. Maybe she'll lead him to develop that conscience one day  |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:09:10 GMT -5
I just find it a little hard to swallow when fans of the Ripper of Monterey want to talk about how 'bad' Damon is or even comparable to the current villian on the show. If we're gonna scale it I think it would be Klaus on top at villian (he has 1000 years under his belt after all), then Stefan for killing hundreds of innocent people inhumanely, then Damon and I don't see how anyone could argue with THAT. Well Stefan did not ask to be a ripper or a vampire. That was not his choice. He has been trying to fight these things and he has become better and better. He has never shown that he does not acknowledged that what he did was wrong or awful or inhumane AND he has shown to regret it and hate himself for it. AND he has shown when it comes to Elena he will fight it better than anyone could because he loves her and his love for Elena helps him fight that darkness inside of him. Well he did have a choice he couldve let himself die but then again the way he transitioned we are not sure if it was intentional because he wanted to turn. he got a taste of it and fell for it instantly |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:11:09 GMT -5
This thread is just Damon bashing in disguise. You're an SE fan so I figure you'd know a villian when you see one in the form of Stefan. The point was they've all had their moments in their lives. Some have attempted to do better, both Stefan and Damon. So far, not Klaus. Well us Se fans could say the same about every Stefan debate thread ever made here lol but no I do not think that was the intent. It most definitely was not. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:12:47 GMT -5
Agreed...And Ive always Seen Damon as the Anti Hero after Season 1 he refuses to see himself as the hero as well. And in a previous Klaus and Damon Convo Klaus told him (paraphrasing here) The thing is you thought about turning people into vampires so Jeremy could kill them but you didnt do it because you want to take the highroad for Elena. And thats another difference between Damon and Klaus. Damon is willing to take the high road even though its hard for him but he does it because he loves Elena. Klaus doesnt care what he has to do to get things done he does it. Im surprised they even showed us he was concerned on what Caroline thought at the fact he killed her momma in law. Caroline has betrayed Klaus several times being used as Klaus bait and he kind of just dismisses it " style="width:auto;"] Agree with all. And I DO like that Caroline seems to be Klaus's one weakness. It's the chink in his armor. It's the thing that humanizes him. Maybe she'll lead him to develop that conscience one day Well now THIS^^^^^ was the point of the thread. THANK YOU! |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Feb 4, 2013 21:14:04 GMT -5
The original poster I'm sorry you felt your thread turned into this. I guess I can't debate this bc of the long list of comparing Damon deeds to klaus in any form. It's like a slap in the face as a Damon lover to have to defend your favorite character to klaus!!! Stefan fine lets go but klaus? Klaus is the bad guy! He was meant to be the bad guy! He doesn't deserve Caroline! I'm sorry if someone likes klaus but he is the villain! I hated spike on Buffy for a long time until he changed so I'm not saying there is no hope! But my point is its not fair to debate Damon against klaus. It's just not and if we can't see that collectively as a group then yes Stefan would be brought into.
I would never compare klaus to Stefan! As much stuff as Stefan has done wrong he isn't klaus. It's just not a fair comparison and that is why I brought Stefan and klaus's relationship into it bc there has to be a reason why klaus picks on Damon but sees no wrong in Stefan.
It's just honestly not a fair debate topic. Compare klaus to Silus. They are the big bads.
My poor Damon. Lol yep I said it my poor baby. Lol I think he needs a hug. I'll volunteer to do it!
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:17:24 GMT -5
This thread is just Damon bashing in disguise. You're an SE fan so I figure you'd know a villian when you see one in the form of Stefan. The point was they've all had their moments in their lives. Some have attempted to do better, both Stefan and Damon. So far, not Klaus. See but the thing is im a pretty liberal SE Fan meaning I am able to see the show for it overall not just in the eyes of an SE fan. IM a TVD fan first before anything. I wasnt using this discussion to bash Damon nor Bash Klaus. I love both characters so y would I want to do that. As a DE I don't see that in your arguments. This whole topic is basically dragging what Damon said out to try to bring him down, to say he was not telling the truth by pulling out stuff from way back in the very beginning of season one. Otherwise it wouldn't be necessary and I believe it is being taken out of context to drag out things he did in the past, which he learned what he knows now from and imparted that very knowledge to Klaus. I think if you asked Damon (Ian, since he is fictional) he would say that back then he did not always do things for a purpose. Hell no, but what he was telling Klaus was what he now believes is the right way to do things. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:17:39 GMT -5
because he has said it. I am monster Elena this is who I am. This is what the blood makes me. OR When Elena finds him in S3 he says that things will never be the same because of the things that he has done ... the list goes on. Well I don't see him saying he can't be forgiven for it. He called himself the 'good brother' for gosh sakes, like it never happened and he attempted to start a life to 'start over new', 'forget the past.' But I will leave it there because it isn't a Stefan thread. I only brought him into it to show how many of them have done things that might be considered unforgiveable if we want to be that way about it. Klaus to me has not started any real redemption as of yet. He certainly could and if he succeeded I wouldn't hold his past against him but right now his past is his present. I never said he couldn't and I never said Damon couldn't I said forgiveness yes, but make up for it NO. Things can be forgiven, but not forgotton. Damon is the one that said things without purpose are not forgivable and I thought that was ridiculous, especially given his own actions. |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:21:04 GMT -5
The original poster I'm sorry you felt your thread turned into this. I guess I can't debate this bc of the long list of comparing Damon deeds to klaus in any form. It's like a slap in the face as a Damon lover to have to defend your favorite character to klaus!!! Stefan fine lets go but klaus? Klaus is the bad guy! He was meant to be the bad guy! He doesn't deserve Caroline! I'm sorry if someone likes klaus but he is the villain! I hated spike on Buffy for a long time until he changed so I'm not saying there is no hope! But my point is its not fair to debate Damon against klaus. It's just not and if we can't see that collectively as a group then yes Stefan would be brought into. I would never compare klaus to Stefan! As much stuff as Stefan has done wrong he isn't klaus. It's just not a fair comparison and that is why I brought Stefan and klaus's relationship into it bc there has to be a reason why klaus picks on Damon but sees no wrong in Stefan. It's just honestly not a fair debate topic. Compare klaus to Silus. They are the big bads. My poor Damon. Lol yep I said it my poor baby. Lol I think he needs a hug. I'll volunteer to do it! Sweets but I wasnt really comparing the two and Im sorry you saw it like that. I love KLAUS and I DEF KNOW HE IS A VILLAIN. I enjoy seeing episodes where they show cracks between his flawed and effed up layers so i take no offense to know that he is alwasy going to be the villain I just wanted to point out the bad things that the both have done because of their conversation not because i felt the need to compare Damon to big bad Klaus. Forgive me?  |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:24:44 GMT -5
Well I don't see him saying he can't be forgiven for it. He called himself the 'good brother' for gosh sakes, like it never happened and he attempted to start a life to 'start over new', 'forget the past.' But I will leave it there because it isn't a Stefan thread. I only brought him into it to show how many of them have done things that might be considered unforgiveable if we want to be that way about it. Klaus to me has not started any real redemption as of yet. He certainly could and if he succeeded I wouldn't hold his past against him but right now his past is his present. I never said he couldn't and I never said Damon couldn't I said forgiveness yes, but make up for it NO. Things can be forgiven, but not forgotton. Damon is the one that said things without purpose are not forgivable and I thought that was ridiculous, especially given his own actions. Because that is what he believes now and that is what he is operating under now. I don't think he ever expected to be forgiven and I think it surprises him every day that she did, to be honest. |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:25:25 GMT -5
See but the thing is im a pretty liberal SE Fan meaning I am able to see the show for it overall not just in the eyes of an SE fan. IM a TVD fan first before anything. I wasnt using this discussion to bash Damon nor Bash Klaus. I love both characters so y would I want to do that. As a DE I don't see that in your arguments. This whole topic is basically dragging what Damon said out to try to bring him down, to say he was not telling the truth by pulling out stuff from way back in the very beginning of season one. Otherwise it wouldn't be necessary and I believe it is being taken out of context to drag out things he did in the past, which he learned what he knows now from and imparted that very knowledge to Klaus. I think if you asked Damon (Ian, since he is fictional) he would say that back then he did not always do things for a purpose. Hell no, but what he was telling Klaus was what he now believes is the right way to do things. If you look back at my post..NOT MY ARGUMENT because i wasn't even making an argument I wanted to see peoples thoughts. I pointed out the bad things i can remember that both klaus and Damon had both did. Past and Present. I wasnt trying to bring Damon down I was pointing that both comments that were said from each character about being debatable could actually be debatable. Please dont assume I was doing otherwise ;/ because I definitely was not. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Feb 4, 2013 21:27:17 GMT -5
The original poster I'm sorry you felt your thread turned into this. I guess I can't debate this bc of the long list of comparing Damon deeds to klaus in any form. It's like a slap in the face as a Damon lover to have to defend your favorite character to klaus!!! Stefan fine lets go but klaus? Klaus is the bad guy! He was meant to be the bad guy! He doesn't deserve Caroline! I'm sorry if someone likes klaus but he is the villain! I hated spike on Buffy for a long time until he changed so I'm not saying there is no hope! But my point is its not fair to debate Damon against klaus. It's just not and if we can't see that collectively as a group then yes Stefan would be brought into. I would never compare klaus to Stefan! As much stuff as Stefan has done wrong he isn't klaus. It's just not a fair comparison and that is why I brought Stefan and klaus's relationship into it bc there has to be a reason why klaus picks on Damon but sees no wrong in Stefan. It's just honestly not a fair debate topic. Compare klaus to Silus. They are the big bads. My poor Damon. Lol yep I said it my poor baby. Lol I think he needs a hug. I'll volunteer to do it! Sweets but I wasnt really comparing the two and Im sorry you saw it like that. I love KLAUS and I DEF KNOW HE IS A VILLAIN. I enjoy seeing episodes where they show cracks between his flawed and effed up layers so i take no offense to know that he is alwasy going to be the villain I just wanted to point out the bad things that the both have done because of their conversation not because i felt the need to compare Damon to big bad Klaus. Forgive me? You don't need to be forgiven. I just don't even think the convo they had has to do with this debate topic. I think klaus had zero right to even try and relate to Damon. I just don't like their bad things to be compared bc klaus is and will always be the bad guy until proven different. So that is why I can't understand the comparison in any capacity and that is why myself personally was going about the debate in a What are you kidding me fashion. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 21:35:25 GMT -5
I never said he couldn't and I never said Damon couldn't I said forgiveness yes, but make up for it NO. Things can be forgiven, but not forgotton. Damon is the one that said things without purpose are not forgivable and I thought that was ridiculous, especially given his own actions. Because that is what he believes now and that is what he is operating under now. I don't think he ever expected to be forgiven and I think it surprises him every day that she did, to be honest. Well, i think he needs to rethink that because then under his own beliefs he is not forgivable... and the entire statement made no sense as an answer to why he is. |
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Post by Ruby2579 on Feb 4, 2013 21:38:59 GMT -5
Because that is what he believes now and that is what he is operating under now. I don't think he ever expected to be forgiven and I think it surprises him every day that she did, to be honest. Well, i think he needs to rethink that because then under his own beliefs he is not forgivable... and the entire statement made no sense as an answer to why he is. Well if we do think about it Damon thinks very low of himself so he might not even think he is capable of being forgiven. and I think Klaus gets at Damon so much is because Klaus sees himself a bit as Damon. Klaus to me thinks low of himself as well and thats why he sees SE as being the one to come out on top because he cant see someone like himself or Damon getting the girl. I think he channels more of this low self esteem onto Damon and you get those comments klaus constantly throws at Damon |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Feb 4, 2013 21:41:56 GMT -5
As a DE I don't see that in your arguments. This whole topic is basically dragging what Damon said out to try to bring him down, to say he was not telling the truth by pulling out stuff from way back in the very beginning of season one. Otherwise it wouldn't be necessary and I believe it is being taken out of context to drag out things he did in the past, which he learned what he knows now from and imparted that very knowledge to Klaus. I think if you asked Damon (Ian, since he is fictional) he would say that back then he did not always do things for a purpose. Hell no, but what he was telling Klaus was what he now believes is the right way to do things. If you look back at my post..NOT MY ARGUMENT because i wasn't even making an argument I wanted to see peoples thoughts. I pointed out the bad things i can remember that both klaus and Damon had both did. Past and Present. I wasnt trying to bring Damon down I was pointing that both comments that were said from each character about being debatable could actually be debatable. Please dont assume I was doing otherwise ;/ because I definitely was not. This is the line in your OP which refutes what you are saying now was your purpose for writing it and which I took offense to right off the bat: I wanted to know people's thoughts about this specific conversation and who you think has done worseRead more: tvd1.proboards.com/thread/487/why-klaus-murderous?page=6#page=1#ixzz2JzL7WkkIThat's asking for a direct comparison and asking us who we think has done worse which means you are implying that Damon may have done worse. If you didn't think so there'd be no comparison to make. Klaus has been alive 1000 years and probably killed thousands of people by now. There is NO comparison to be made here. I wouldn't even think of putting Stefan up against Klaus for direct comparison in a debate. That's just asking to be flamed, and he has certainly killed many more innocent people than Damon has as the Ripper, which is why I brought him up when I did. They don't call him the Ripper for nothing. |
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i always avoid when its on hiatus here to avoid spoilers
Jun 10, 2016 15:46:17 GMT -5
i always avoid when its on hiatus here to avoid spoilers
Jun 10, 2016 15:46:17 GMT -5