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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2015 14:34:31 GMT -5
Side Note....... Victoria Justice comes to Mystic Falls and Elena body snatches her because the cure does kill Nina Dobrev's (body) and so Elena needs to jump ship and since EVERYONE says Victoria Justice is her doppelganger we can have Elena jump into her body. She can be a car crash victim and Elena jumps into her to save her and chooses to become a vampire to survive. LOL This way we get a Victoria Justice Elena season 7 and DE doesn't have to die. Yeah Victoria Justice does look very similar to Nina Dobrev. And if we think to TO Kol and Rebekah (if she had managed to body switch with Cami at the time) had both jumped into bodies that looked similar to their real appearances. At this point we've all pretty much came up with so many ways to keep DE alive in the finale and if a room full of professional writers doesn't even come up with something half as decent and decide to make DE OOC by having them break up because, 'LOL we had no choice and at least Damon's still here to read the phonebook for you guys!' I'm sorry but good riddance to their crappy writing. |
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Apr 12, 2015 14:48:29 GMT -5
AND I must defend my stance because I am one of the ones who said I am done with TVD because of no DE. And lets get real.... I made this this thread in the debate board so we can debate sooooooo here I go......
I waited 3 and a half seasons for my couple! This was 3 and half seasons of watching SE. From the get go the whole premise of the show was about a girl (ELENA) who falls in love with 2 brothers (Stefan & Damon). So I sat and supported my show for those seasons giving the show the full ratings it deserved. Then when DE finally happened and we got our couple (OUR TURN) the SE's all left the show claiming SE was ruined and Elena was (explicit). So the ratings did start to hurt a bit because it wasn't the original ratings from before and I blame them for that because we stuck through their couple and they couldn't stick through ours? What if all DE's said well I'll start watching TVD once DE gets together? That would be wrong. And that's not what we did!
Then the show set up DE being this endgame couple. The theme was strong with he met her first, he challenged her, made her feel alive, forever, home themes etc etc. So can you blame us for being upset that when the MAIN girl leaves the show it kinda contradicts why we stuck around for all of these years? And I mean sat through SE (barf) and for what?
Bamon is a non canon couple. They are not even real. Damon and Bonnie just created a mutual friendship. The shows premise was NEVER based off Bamon. It was always about a girl who falls in love with two brothers who happen to be vampires. So do I feel bad that I don't want to stick it out and watch a show who shoved DE forever down our throat for the last two and half seasons to have the main girl leave and feed us Bamon? No thank you. And this is why I say I am leaving the show.
I never said I was watching TVD for any other reason but for DE and I stuck around through SE. SE's still had hope and some still watch hoping SE would find their way back. Both DE and SE have ZERO hope now. So why watch? Elena is gone. I'm not gonna apologize that I'm leaving and the ratings will plummet while Bamon may possibly get some weird forced chance. The show was never set up for Bamon. Damon has been about Elena and Elena only. So how am I supposed to believe that he could ever move on with anyone let alone her BEST FRIEND. I'd kill my ex and my best friend if they did that to me. So that is how I see it.
As far as Damon loving Kat then quickly falling for Elena.... Am I watching something different because I thought the purpose of him falling for Elena was because she looked just like Kat but her heart was beautiful and Kat's was black. When Damon started to fall for Elena he first was curious about her because of the Kat aspect but then he started to see her heart and he fell in love with her. That's why in season 2 when he knew what Kat was capable of and how heartless she was it was easy for him to let go because again Elena had a heart that was so full of love, empathy and kindness. Elena showed Damon things within himself that Kat wasn't and could never be able to show Damon. So naturally his progression toward Elena would ensue. She looked liked the girl he was in love with but was like a million times more awesome.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 12, 2015 16:47:50 GMT -5
Side Note....... Victoria Justice comes to Mystic Falls and Elena body snatches her because the cure does kill Nina Dobrev's (body) and so Elena needs to jump ship and since EVERYONE says Victoria Justice is her doppelganger we can have Elena jump into her body. She can be a car crash victim and Elena jumps into her to save her and chooses to become a vampire to survive. LOL This way we get a Victoria Justice Elena season 7 and DE doesn't have to die. Yeah Victoria Justice does look very similar to Nina Dobrev. And if we think to TO Kol and Rebekah (if she had managed to body switch with Cami at the time) had both jumped into bodies that looked similar to their real appearances. At this point we've all pretty much came up with so many ways to keep DE alive in the finale and if a room full of professional writers doesn't even come up with something half as decent and decide to make DE OOC by having them break up because, 'LOL we had no choice and at least Damon's still here to read the phonebook for you guys!' I'm sorry but good riddance to their crappy writing. Soooo....this! I had a scary thought that maybe Sarah Salvatore will be who she body jumps into since she looks a lot like Nina, too, but then she'd be distantly related to the Salvatore bros. |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Apr 12, 2015 17:29:11 GMT -5
Bamon is a non canon couple. They are not even real. Damon and Bonnie just created a mutual friendship. The shows premise was NEVER based off Bamon. It was always about a girl who falls in love with two brothers who happen to be vampires. They are non canon yet but will be unless you mean from the books which I say the books are cool but I prefer the tv continuity as Jeremy is awesome! and I look at it like comic book movies. Is the dark knight exactly 100% like the comics? nope but it's a damn good film and the Nolan trilogy has its own continuity/canon and thats ok  As for the premise I 100% that was the initial premise but it evolved like good shows do. Season 1 was all about Stefan + Elena with Damon starting too have feelings. I feel Damon + Elena were great early one and their arc was great but I feel the way the show evolved it went from "Girl torn between to brothers" to "The lives of a group of friends dealing with super natural. Delena was a great arc BUT the show has had many which I feel show the show moved and changed like the following : Caroline : Her arc was so good. She literally went from "Queen bee" to becoming a vampire. That heightens what is already there so she could have easily become the next Katherine character. But no it turns out underneath the queen bee exterior lay a really sensitive and sweet character who grew to in my opinion becoming the heart or conscious of the group. Tyler : Season 1 I hated tyler he was a bully that like to throw his weight around. Season 2 however you find out it’s because of something that is out of his control. He learnt to overcome it and sure tyler now is dull but season 2 he was vulnerable he was in pain. He paid for been a bully by how he broke every bone in his body and he emerged a better character I was routing for him a lot season 2 + 3 Jeremy : Jeremy is a great character looking at it. Loser stoner kid at first but that’s because he was trying to deal. Hell I’ve spiralled in RL in a similar way (though not with drugs) and he meets Anna she shows him a whole new world (a gender reversed Aladdin if you will) and he was still an outsider in the group. He got with Bonnie and became more important slowly to the group. Then he became a hunter and had to overcome trying to kill his own sister. Now he’s a normal guy but he’s strong he draws lines in the sand about killing that our main “heroes” don’t. I’d argue he is one of the true heroes Matt : Matt evolved too I hated him in season 1 + 2 as be honest how many sentences of his does say “Vicky” and I know he going through stuff but he was so one dimensional even his mother thing did not help him. But at a certain point he moved on. He literally became the audience surrogate for a while of just been a regular dude doing regular stuff and having regular real reactions , loved it! Now hes evolving to really hate the supernatural stuff and you know what? It’s just. It’s not sudden and THAT is something I’m actually loving watching. Stefan : He was dull as current tyler at times early on but you know season 2 + 3 Helped him so much. Season 2 with Katherine you saw a more human Stefan in my eyes as he was struggling at times to be faithful as Katherine was a great temptation. Season 3 the ripper side was like “holy ****” it almost was a great as seeing Angel go Angelus (god I loved Angelus lol) but it added a dark edge and it turn helped damon. How it helped damon was on the surface Stefan = good , Damon = bad. This blurred it. As honestly Damon is awesome BUT I honestly don’t think Delena could have worked as much as I wanted it with out ripper. As how can you make bunny hunting good brother not look better than serial killing psycho brother? You make him a bigger killer while redeeming damon. Brilliance and he gets a bad rep now cause “stelena” but Stefan is fun character now he’s even making jokes! I could go on and on and sure they dropped the ball a lot IMO. With the following characters : Katherine – Hated he death it just annoyed me as a fan of her how little anyone cared. Sure I kinda understand that but Damon loved her , Stefan loved her. They should have cared just a little not erase her from existence then go “oh well that happened” and move on. Litrally the madest this show has ever made me Bonnie – Love bonnie but everytime she gets stronger they just break her back down. A lot of it was to help Elena too which come on! She’s your friend I want her happy with anyone Damon, Jeremy again, Stefan , Hell I’d go for tyler just let her be happy for a while. Elena – At first a great character. But around the end of season 2 + she fell in to Lana Lang smallville problems. No one loved her could ever be happy again. Not Stefan , Not Matt , Not Damon. As she’s so “perfect” too many die so she can live. She’s inserted into other peoples stories more than needed. To the point I’m glad the actress is moving on as the writers can’t write her well now. I’d rather watch tyler read the phone book than sit through another Elena scene. Tom – Im joking on this one but I just loved how plain Stefan’s doppleganger was and he was called tom! LOL come on lets give Tom some love lol The point of this long maybe boring maybe falling on deaf ears overall (not just person I quoted) I mean shows change and evolve and this one is as much about the cast as a whole and their lives as it is about Elena going from brother to brother. It’s about the never ending struggle when the supernatural is involved. I referenced buffy earlier, it was called Buffy THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. That changed season 3. It was no longer always a vampire she had to kill it was demons and even a goddess!. Dawson’s Creek. It literally has two words in the title “Dawson” and “Creek” by the end Joey was the main character and Dawson hardly appeared also was more in city than the creek. It evolved. Power rangers after in space started swapping places + characters +powers every year! WWE is still on the air because it changes with the times , Frasier became as much about the other characters as the title character , DragonBall was Martial arts + Adventure to Aliens + beam struggles. The writing on the TVD and the characters can be so good that let’s face it Elena will be missed by lots of people the show has enough strength and pros to still be great. It’s not going to be two and a half men without Charlie sheen. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 12, 2015 19:17:42 GMT -5
Bamon is a non canon couple. They are not even real. Damon and Bonnie just created a mutual friendship. The shows premise was NEVER based off Bamon. It was always about a girl who falls in love with two brothers who happen to be vampires. They are non canon yet but will be unless you mean from the books which I say the books are cool but I prefer the tv continuity as Jeremy is awesome! and I look at it like comic book movies. Is the dark knight exactly 100% like the comics? nope but it's a damn good film and the Nolan trilogy has its own continuity/canon and thats ok As for the premise I 100% that was the initial premise but it evolved like good shows do. Season 1 was all about Stefan + Elena with Damon starting too have feelings. I feel Damon + Elena were great early one and their arc was great but I feel the way the show evolved it went from "Girl torn between to brothers" to "The lives of a group of friends dealing with super natural. Delena was a great arc BUT the show has had many which I feel show the show moved and changed like the following : Caroline : Her arc was so good. She literally went from "Queen bee" to becoming a vampire. That heightens what is already there so she could have easily become the next Katherine character. But no it turns out underneath the queen bee exterior lay a really sensitive and sweet character who grew to in my opinion becoming the heart or conscious of the group. Tyler : Season 1 I hated tyler he was a bully that like to throw his weight around. Season 2 however you find out it’s because of something that is out of his control. He learnt to overcome it and sure tyler now is dull but season 2 he was vulnerable he was in pain. He paid for been a bully by how he broke every bone in his body and he emerged a better character I was routing for him a lot season 2 + 3 Jeremy : Jeremy is a great character looking at it. Loser stoner kid at first but that’s because he was trying to deal. Hell I’ve spiralled in RL in a similar way (though not with drugs) and he meets Anna she shows him a whole new world (a gender reversed Aladdin if you will) and he was still an outsider in the group. He got with Bonnie and became more important slowly to the group. Then he became a hunter and had to overcome trying to kill his own sister. Now he’s a normal guy but he’s strong he draws lines in the sand about killing that our main “heroes” don’t. I’d argue he is one of the true heroes Matt : Matt evolved too I hated him in season 1 + 2 as be honest how many sentences of his does say “Vicky” and I know he going through stuff but he was so one dimensional even his mother thing did not help him. But at a certain point he moved on. He literally became the audience surrogate for a while of just been a regular dude doing regular stuff and having regular real reactions , loved it! Now hes evolving to really hate the supernatural stuff and you know what? It’s just. It’s not sudden and THAT is something I’m actually loving watching. Stefan : He was dull as current tyler at times early on but you know season 2 + 3 Helped him so much. Season 2 with Katherine you saw a more human Stefan in my eyes as he was struggling at times to be faithful as Katherine was a great temptation. Season 3 the ripper side was like “holy ****” it almost was a great as seeing Angel go Angelus (god I loved Angelus lol) but it added a dark edge and it turn helped damon. How it helped damon was on the surface Stefan = good , Damon = bad. This blurred it. As honestly Damon is awesome BUT I honestly don’t think Delena could have worked as much as I wanted it with out ripper. As how can you make bunny hunting good brother not look better than serial killing psycho brother? You make him a bigger killer while redeeming damon. Brilliance and he gets a bad rep now cause “stelena” but Stefan is fun character now he’s even making jokes! I could go on and on and sure they dropped the ball a lot IMO. With the following characters : Katherine – Hated he death it just annoyed me as a fan of her how little anyone cared. Sure I kinda understand that but Damon loved her , Stefan loved her. They should have cared just a little not erase her from existence then go “oh well that happened” and move on. Litrally the madest this show has ever made me Bonnie – Love bonnie but everytime she gets stronger they just break her back down. A lot of it was to help Elena too which come on! She’s your friend I want her happy with anyone Damon, Jeremy again, Stefan , Hell I’d go for tyler just let her be happy for a while. Elena – At first a great character. But around the end of season 2 + she fell in to Lana Lang smallville problems. No one loved her could ever be happy again. Not Stefan , Not Matt , Not Damon. As she’s so “perfect” too many die so she can live. She’s inserted into other peoples stories more than needed. To the point I’m glad the actress is moving on as the writers can’t write her well now. I’d rather watch tyler read the phone book than sit through another Elena scene. Tom – Im joking on this one but I just loved how plain Stefan’s doppleganger was and he was called tom! LOL come on lets give Tom some love lol The point of this long maybe boring maybe falling on deaf ears overall (not just person I quoted) I mean shows change and evolve and this one is as much about the cast as a whole and their lives as it is about Elena going from brother to brother. It’s about the never ending struggle when the supernatural is involved. I referenced buffy earlier, it was called Buffy THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. That changed season 3. It was no longer always a vampire she had to kill it was demons and even a goddess!. Dawson’s Creek. It literally has two words in the title “Dawson” and “Creek” by the end Joey was the main character and Dawson hardly appeared also was more in city than the creek. It evolved. Power rangers after in space started swapping places + characters +powers every year! WWE is still on the air because it changes with the times , Frasier became as much about the other characters as the title character , DragonBall was Martial arts + Adventure to Aliens + beam struggles. The writing on the TVD and the characters can be so good that let’s face it Elena will be missed by lots of people the show has enough strength and pros to still be great. It’s not going to be two and a half men without Charlie sheen. And I don't care about any of those characters you just mentioned. Why? Because at one point or another they were used as mouthpieces to bad talk Delena and for me that was when they went from OK to watch to, who cares. So you see I guess it depends on your perspective. The show did that to them by choosing to do what they did. Even Alaric is worthless to me now and I used to like him when he was actually friends with Damon, even when he went off on him because back then he was still on his side for the most part. Now, who knows. For me they ruined these characters one by one and I won't watch for a single one of them. Damon may keep me watching, but as I said, it will only be if his story is acceptable to me and I wonder if it would be even better if I just caught his scenes on youtube after they air since I really don't care about any of the other stories going on. Katherine I did enjoy, but that's done. Mama Salvatore is currently slightly interesting. Kai is slightly interesting and that's about it for me. I can't think of a really good reason to continue to be an avid fan of the show with no Delena in it and that's basically what most Delena fans feel. The rest of the show's stories and characters are just not strong enough to keep me interested. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2015 20:06:15 GMT -5
I think the steadily falling ratings of this show is proof that speaks for itself in terms of the waning interest in fans overall and how these past storylines have just been repetitive and boring and hasn't been enough to bring back old fans.
Each season ratings get lower and lower and season 7 will be no different, even more so with the loss of Elena and it goes way past simply losing 'one character'. You're losing relationship dynamics like Delena and Stelena or Caroline/Bonnie/Elena. And yes there are some fans who are just 'all about the girls' or extreme stans.
Being involved in the fandom for a long time and you notice that a majority of TVD fans don't even enjoy the whole show in its entirety. Rarely do you see someone praising every single pairing or loving every character. The fandom has become segregated into its own factions. Watching for a certain character or pairing only, or loving the girls only or the Salvatore Brothers only.
This fandom has always held a love/hate relationship with the show, long since stopped caring about all the crazy storylines, everyone is pretty much in agreement that JP sucks as a headwriter and it's certainly not just something 'pressed fans' or whatever are saying just to badmouth. The ratings for this show are the lowest it's ever been, proving the point that the writing has gone downhill. As much as I wanted this series to be succesful and not become a joke in its creation of the 'Twilight vampire craze' JP continually shoots herself in the foot with all these bad and repetitive storylines and her writing of characters that only makes you care for one or two while immensely hating others.
Some characters get great development while others are rarely seen or used as plot devices or mouthpieces to tell Elena how bad Damon is and great Stefan is for the millionth time. And instead of using the already handful of characters she has, she makes more guest stars that continually sidelines characters who have been there since season 1. Along with Nina, Jeremy and Tyler have also been lost cause she has no idea what to do with them, I'm surprised Matt hasn't jumped on the bus with them. But really the show is losing a lot of dynamics that shaped this show in the beginning.
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Post by Somerhaldered on Apr 12, 2015 22:49:53 GMT -5
Like I've said before, I have not been on message boards, Twitter, FB for any other show like I have been with TVD, but does this stuff happen with a lot of shows? All of this segregation and hate and lashing out? I'm kind of getting turned off by the whole TVD fandom and the disrespect they throw at the cast and writers over a fictional tv show. I think everyone would be happier if they just watched it week by week, watched the finale and decided from the outcome to tune into S7 or not and then just walked away from all of it.
I appreciate this board that the hate stays out of it (with just the occasional reports of what's going on with the fandom), so I like that I can come here and get information about the show, predict some spoilers, etc. without feeling like I'm going to get yelled at. For me, this whole thing is a moot point because I can't get mad at the writers until I see 6x21 and 6x22 (I hear Nina may not be filming the finale). They could in fact have a magical ending in mind but everyone is so pessimistic (I get it, we've been dealt sh*tty hands before) that no one is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Their MAIN lead character is leaving. They have got to do her story justice - the story we have been built up to for years. If they don't, then I will gladly admit they are idiots and I will eat my hat come 6x22.
I just can't realistically see them making Damon say he never really loved Elena and have him get over her in a heartbeat. They coddled Stefan's moving on and he's still not fully there yet! They knew Stelenas would be pissed if he moved on too fast, likewise Delenas would probably start a riot if Damon got over Elena by 7x5. I just feel like they have to give us some kind of satisfaction so that the people who decide not to watch after 6x22 can still walk away feeling like it was worth it. JP says Nina's departure is a challenge they are dealing with. Yeah, it's a challenge because they don't want to royally f*ck it up (pardon my French). If they made it easy, they could do whatever the heck they want.
With as many roadblocks that DE has had, we always get them coming together in some epic way just about every season. I don't think this season will be any different. We have too many things in the air and they haven't even given Elena her memories back. They have never left an SL open-ended (aside from a season finale cliffhanger) and the memory swipe would be a terrible place to start. If they choose to let Elena leave Mystic Falls without ever getting her memories back (and then swiping the Salvatores out completely), that would be shooting themselves in the foot. Again, if 6x22 comes and that's what happens, then I'll go curl up under my bed and cry for 2 days and I may never watch this show again.
Let's not forget that they knew that Nina was going to leave and they still decided to go with this SL. I refuse to believe they wrote this memory swipe crap only to let it fall short. You start with a storyboard. You know your beginning, middle and end (hopefully epic) and then you fill in the blanks. Grant it this is the longest arc they have ever done, I don't think I've seen one span the entire season, so fans are anxious and now with the news that Nina is leaving it makes it worse because fans think they are scrambling to figure out the ending. Nah uh. That ending was planned by 6x2 and it has been on a slow build.
Anyways, the point of my unexpectedly long ramble was that we have to see what this finale will bring. I know most people won't stick around after it's done anyways, but I feel like we should at least throw out some positive vibes in hopes that our couple get the ending they deserve after all of this turmoil and angst. If they decide to leave it open-ended so that S7 revolves around something to do with why Elena is gone, coming to another huge finale, then that's another ramble and I don't have the time to speculate that.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 12, 2015 23:37:44 GMT -5
Like I've said before, I have not been on message boards, Twitter, FB for any other show like I have been with TVD, but does this stuff happen with a lot of shows? All of this segregation and hate and lashing out? I'm kind of getting turned off by the whole TVD fandom and the disrespect they throw at the cast and writers over a fictional tv show. I think everyone would be happier if they just watched it week by week, watched the finale and decided from the outcome to tune into S7 or not and then just walked away from all of it. I appreciate this board that the hate stays out of it (with just the occasional reports of what's going on with the fandom), so I like that I can come here and get information about the show, predict some spoilers, etc. without feeling like I'm going to get yelled at. For me, this whole thing is a moot point because I can't get mad at the writers until I see 6x21 and 6x22 (I hear Nina may not be filming the finale). They could in fact have a magical ending in mind but everyone is so pessimistic (I get it, we've been dealt sh*tty hands before) that no one is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Their MAIN lead character is leaving. They have got to do her story justice - the story we have been built up to for years. If they don't, then I will gladly admit they are idiots and I will eat my hat come 6x22. I just can't realistically see them making Damon say he never really loved Elena and have him get over her in a heartbeat. They coddled Stefan's moving on and he's still not fully there yet! They knew Stelenas would be pissed if he moved on too fast, likewise Delenas would probably start a riot if Damon got over Elena by 7x5. I just feel like they have to give us some kind of satisfaction so that the people who decide not to watch after 6x22 can still walk away feeling like it was worth it. JP says Nina's departure is a challenge they are dealing with. Yeah, it's a challenge because they don't want to royally f*ck it up (pardon my French). If they made it easy, they could do whatever the heck they want. With as many roadblocks that DE has had, we always get them coming together in some epic way just about every season. I don't think this season will be any different. We have too many things in the air and they haven't even given Elena her memories back. They have never left an SL open-ended (aside from a season finale cliffhanger) and the memory swipe would be a terrible place to start. If they choose to let Elena leave Mystic Falls without ever getting her memories back (and then swiping the Salvatores out completely), that would be shooting themselves in the foot. Again, if 6x22 comes and that's what happens, then I'll go curl up under my bed and cry for 2 days and I may never watch this show again. Let's not forget that they knew that Nina was going to leave and they still decided to go with this SL. I refuse to believe they wrote this memory swipe crap only to let it fall short. You start with a storyboard. You know your beginning, middle and end (hopefully epic) and then you fill in the blanks. Grant it this is the longest arc they have ever done, I don't think I've seen one span the entire season, so fans are anxious and now with the news that Nina is leaving it makes it worse because fans think they are scrambling to figure out the ending. Nah uh. That ending was planned by 6x2 and it has been on a slow build. Anyways, the point of my unexpectedly long ramble was that we have to see what this finale will bring. I know most people won't stick around after it's done anyways, but I feel like we should at least throw out some positive vibes in hopes that our couple get the ending they deserve after all of this turmoil and angst. If they decide to leave it open-ended so that S7 revolves around something to do with why Elena is gone, coming to another huge finale, then that's another ramble and I don't have the time to speculate that. I agree and I'm waiting to see what happens too because I do still have a tiny glimmer of hope that they wouldn't just throw the Delena story away after all that beautiful build up. They have to have a plan for it that doesn't include destroying their best couple and probably their show in the process. |
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Post by missmystic on Apr 14, 2015 10:48:15 GMT -5
my point was just he fell out of love and in to love with elena really fast but everyones ok with that, So I didn't really want to go all out in this particular discussion (emotions seem to be riding high for obvious reasons), but I just wanted to comment on this a bit.
When you spend some time away from something you forget things. Season 1 and 2 of TVD was a long time ago. And everyone tends to pick and have different things that stick with them when they look back. So here's a cannon recap of Damon Salvatore's love life:
Katherine was his first love, and it ended in tragedy, which affected him pretty intensely. And people have made comments about him loving her even though she was dead for 145 years or whatever it was, but he actually KNEW Kat was alive. He spent 145 trying to find a way to rescue her. He thought she loved him as much as he loved her, and he thought she was in trouble and needed his help. And for a person who loves as fiercely as Damon, there was no question about his loyalty as far as he was concerned. The girl he loved needed him to come through for her, end of story. So he spent his entire life fighting for that goal. We don't even really know what sacrifices he had to make along the way, but we can assume that some sh*t went down for sure.
When he meets Elena, he doesn't go straight to loving her by any stretch. The first thing that happens is he finds himself respecting her, which he himself is surprised by. He's likely spent a lot of his life dealing with underhanded and dishonest people, he doesn't trust anyone. But here is Elena, this person who is undeniably good and kind and honest. And he admires her, he starts to trust her even, and she becomes maybe the first friend he's had in decades. He starts to care about her, about what happens to her, she becomes important to him.
But even during all of this, he is still loyally in love with Katherine. Until he finally learns that everything he ever believed to be true was a lie! Katherine is fine, living her life off somewhere else, she was never in trouble, she never needed his help, and she obviously didn't care about being with him or she would have been. Can you imagine spending 145 loyally loving someone only to find out they had lied to you and betrayed you? He is beyond devastated after that, broken, destroyed. And the only person who is genuinely there for him and concerned about his well being is Elena.
She spends time trying to help him through his grief and be his friend, something that is not common place in Damon's life. And he starts to see just how wrong he had been in loving Katherine, and how much of an amazing person Elena is. THAT is when he starts falling in love with her. And it wasn't all of a sudden. It took time, and trust, and it took him getting his heart ripped out and the sh*t kicked out of him to see Kat for who she really was. It's a lot easier to get over someone quickly when you have a reason to hate them.
And even after that, his love for Elena was in the juvenile stages for a while there. Because he still wasn't a whole person, he had a lot of growing up to do. But he does finally get to a place where he begins to understand what love really is, and that's when he is able to be selfless for the sake of her happiness and well being. That's when he starts to become the hero we know he is.
So this is me arguing that Damon didn't just fall in and out of love fast. All the circumstances of the situations matter. And they all fall in line with his character development. So what I am saying here is that the only realistic way a person like Damon could move on from Elena in a relatively short period of time would be if she betrays him in some unthinkable way and crushes his heart into a million pieces before she leaves. Then maybe he could hate her enough to move on sooner rather than later. But if she dies, or leaves due to compulsion or whatever, then there is just no way someone like Damon could just move on and be ok. She changed his life, she made him see his self worth. These are things no one else was ever able to do for him. He loves her, end of story. And he's not just going to forget that.
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Post by Sweetluv4DE on Apr 14, 2015 11:14:57 GMT -5
my point was just he fell out of love and in to love with elena really fast but everyones ok with that, So I didn't really want to go all out in this particular discussion (emotions seem to be riding high for obvious reasons), but I just wanted to comment on this a bit.
When you spend some time away from something you forget things. Season 1 and 2 of TVD was a long time ago. And everyone tends to pick and have different things that stick with them when they look back. So here's a cannon recap of Damon Salvatore's love life:
Katherine was his first love, and it ended in tragedy, which affected him pretty intensely. And people have made comments about him loving her even though she was dead for 145 years or whatever it was, but he actually KNEW Kat was alive. He spent 145 trying to find a way to rescue her. He thought she loved him as much as he loved her, and he thought she was in trouble and needed his help. And for a person who loves as fiercely as Damon, there was no question about his loyalty as far as he was concerned. The girl he loved needed him to come through for her, end of story. So he spent his entire life fighting for that goal. We don't even really know what sacrifices he had to make along the way, but we can assume that some sh*t went down for sure.
When he meets Elena, he doesn't go straight to loving her by any stretch. The first thing that happens is he finds himself respecting her, which he himself is surprised by. He's likely spent a lot of his life dealing with underhanded and dishonest people, he doesn't trust anyone. But here is Elena, this person who is undeniably good and kind and honest. And he admires her, he starts to trust her even, and she becomes maybe the first friend he's had in decades. He starts to care about her, about what happens to her, she becomes important to him.
But even during all of this, he is still loyally in love with Katherine. Until he finally learns that everything he ever believed to be true was a lie! Katherine is fine, living her life off somewhere else, she was never in trouble, she never needed his help, and she obviously didn't care about being with him or she would have been. Can you imagine spending 145 loyally loving someone only to find out they had lied to you and betrayed you? He is beyond devastated after that, broken, destroyed. And the only person who is genuinely there for him and concerned about his well being is Elena.
She spends time trying to help him through his grief and be his friend, something that is not common place in Damon's life. And he starts to see just how wrong he had been in loving Katherine, and how much of an amazing person Elena is. THAT is when he starts falling in love with her. And it wasn't all of a sudden. It took time, and trust, and it took him getting his heart ripped out and the sh*t kicked out of him to see Kat for who she really was. It's a lot easier to get over someone quickly when you have a reason to hate them.
And even after that, his love for Elena was in the juvenile stages for a while there. Because he still wasn't a whole person, he had a lot of growing up to do. But he does finally get to a place where he begins to understand what love really is, and that's when he is able to be selfless for the sake of her happiness and well being. That's when he starts to become the hero we know he is.
So this is me arguing that Damon didn't just fall in and out of love fast. All the circumstances of the situations matter. And they all fall in line with his character development. So what I am saying here is that the only realistic way a person like Damon could move on from Elena in a relatively short period of time would be if she betrays him in some unthinkable way and crushes his heart into a million pieces before she leaves. Then maybe he could hate her enough to move on sooner rather than later. But if she dies, or leaves due to compulsion or whatever, then there is just no way someone like Damon could just move on and be ok. She changed his life, she made him see his self worth. These are things no one else was ever able to do for him. He loves her, end of story. And he's not just going to forget that.
Wow wow wow. You said everything I couldn't. That was awesome Mystic. I agree and loved every word of it. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 14, 2015 12:15:50 GMT -5
my point was just he fell out of love and in to love with elena really fast but everyones ok with that, So I didn't really want to go all out in this particular discussion (emotions seem to be riding high for obvious reasons), but I just wanted to comment on this a bit.
When you spend some time away from something you forget things. Season 1 and 2 of TVD was a long time ago. And everyone tends to pick and have different things that stick with them when they look back. So here's a cannon recap of Damon Salvatore's love life:
Katherine was his first love, and it ended in tragedy, which affected him pretty intensely. And people have made comments about him loving her even though she was dead for 145 years or whatever it was, but he actually KNEW Kat was alive. He spent 145 trying to find a way to rescue her. He thought she loved him as much as he loved her, and he thought she was in trouble and needed his help. And for a person who loves as fiercely as Damon, there was no question about his loyalty as far as he was concerned. The girl he loved needed him to come through for her, end of story. So he spent his entire life fighting for that goal. We don't even really know what sacrifices he had to make along the way, but we can assume that some sh*t went down for sure.
When he meets Elena, he doesn't go straight to loving her by any stretch. The first thing that happens is he finds himself respecting her, which he himself is surprised by. He's likely spent a lot of his life dealing with underhanded and dishonest people, he doesn't trust anyone. But here is Elena, this person who is undeniably good and kind and honest. And he admires her, he starts to trust her even, and she becomes maybe the first friend he's had in decades. He starts to care about her, about what happens to her, she becomes important to him.
But even during all of this, he is still loyally in love with Katherine. Until he finally learns that everything he ever believed to be true was a lie! Katherine is fine, living her life off somewhere else, she was never in trouble, she never needed his help, and she obviously didn't care about being with him or she would have been. Can you imagine spending 145 loyally loving someone only to find out they had lied to you and betrayed you? He is beyond devastated after that, broken, destroyed. And the only person who is genuinely there for him and concerned about his well being is Elena.
She spends time trying to help him through his grief and be his friend, something that is not common place in Damon's life. And he starts to see just how wrong he had been in loving Katherine, and how much of an amazing person Elena is. THAT is when he starts falling in love with her. And it wasn't all of a sudden. It took time, and trust, and it took him getting his heart ripped out and the sh*t kicked out of him to see Kat for who she really was. It's a lot easier to get over someone quickly when you have a reason to hate them.
And even after that, his love for Elena was in the juvenile stages for a while there. Because he still wasn't a whole person, he had a lot of growing up to do. But he does finally get to a place where he begins to understand what love really is, and that's when he is able to be selfless for the sake of her happiness and well being. That's when he starts to become the hero we know he is.
So this is me arguing that Damon didn't just fall in and out of love fast. All the circumstances of the situations matter. And they all fall in line with his character development. So what I am saying here is that the only realistic way a person like Damon could move on from Elena in a relatively short period of time would be if she betrays him in some unthinkable way and crushes his heart into a million pieces before she leaves. Then maybe he could hate her enough to move on sooner rather than later. But if she dies, or leaves due to compulsion or whatever, then there is just no way someone like Damon could just move on and be ok. She changed his life, she made him see his self worth. These are things no one else was ever able to do for him. He loves her, end of story. And he's not just going to forget that.
Hmmm....good points! I sure hope Elena isn't going to betray him. That would be the worst thing ever. I think the confusing part to me about when Damon actually found out that Katherine was alive is because in the flashbacks of him and Stefan right after they died and were in transition he says she is dead and he doesn't want to go on without her. So when exactly did he learn that she wasn't dead? I don't remember that. I guess it had to be during Emily's lifetime since he made a deal with her for Katherine's protection. Maybe Emily told him she was in the tomb under the church just to get him to protect her family because she knew she wasn't in that tomb. Did we ever get to see how that actually went down or when? He seemed pretty hopeless right after he turned and beyond...but anyway, just one of those lingering questions we may never get the answers to I guess. |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Apr 14, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5
my point was just he fell out of love and in to love with elena really fast but everyones ok with that, So I didn't really want to go all out in this particular discussion (emotions seem to be riding high for obvious reasons), but I just wanted to comment on this a bit.
When you spend some time away from something you forget things. Season 1 and 2 of TVD was a long time ago. And everyone tends to pick and have different things that stick with them when they look back. So here's a cannon recap of Damon Salvatore's love life:
Katherine was his first love, and it ended in tragedy, which affected him pretty intensely. And people have made comments about him loving her even though she was dead for 145 years or whatever it was, but he actually KNEW Kat was alive. He spent 145 trying to find a way to rescue her. He thought she loved him as much as he loved her, and he thought she was in trouble and needed his help. And for a person who loves as fiercely as Damon, there was no question about his loyalty as far as he was concerned. The girl he loved needed him to come through for her, end of story. So he spent his entire life fighting for that goal. We don't even really know what sacrifices he had to make along the way, but we can assume that some sh*t went down for sure.
When he meets Elena, he doesn't go straight to loving her by any stretch. The first thing that happens is he finds himself respecting her, which he himself is surprised by. He's likely spent a lot of his life dealing with underhanded and dishonest people, he doesn't trust anyone. But here is Elena, this person who is undeniably good and kind and honest. And he admires her, he starts to trust her even, and she becomes maybe the first friend he's had in decades. He starts to care about her, about what happens to her, she becomes important to him.
But even during all of this, he is still loyally in love with Katherine. Until he finally learns that everything he ever believed to be true was a lie! Katherine is fine, living her life off somewhere else, she was never in trouble, she never needed his help, and she obviously didn't care about being with him or she would have been. Can you imagine spending 145 loyally loving someone only to find out they had lied to you and betrayed you? He is beyond devastated after that, broken, destroyed. And the only person who is genuinely there for him and concerned about his well being is Elena.
She spends time trying to help him through his grief and be his friend, something that is not common place in Damon's life. And he starts to see just how wrong he had been in loving Katherine, and how much of an amazing person Elena is. THAT is when he starts falling in love with her. And it wasn't all of a sudden. It took time, and trust, and it took him getting his heart ripped out and the sh*t kicked out of him to see Kat for who she really was. It's a lot easier to get over someone quickly when you have a reason to hate them.
And even after that, his love for Elena was in the juvenile stages for a while there. Because he still wasn't a whole person, he had a lot of growing up to do. But he does finally get to a place where he begins to understand what love really is, and that's when he is able to be selfless for the sake of her happiness and well being. That's when he starts to become the hero we know he is.
So this is me arguing that Damon didn't just fall in and out of love fast. All the circumstances of the situations matter. And they all fall in line with his character development. So what I am saying here is that the only realistic way a person like Damon could move on from Elena in a relatively short period of time would be if she betrays him in some unthinkable way and crushes his heart into a million pieces before she leaves. Then maybe he could hate her enough to move on sooner rather than later. But if she dies, or leaves due to compulsion or whatever, then there is just no way someone like Damon could just move on and be ok. She changed his life, she made him see his self worth. These are things no one else was ever able to do for him. He loves her, end of story. And he's not just going to forget that.
That's a nice way of looking at it. I disagree but I can respect it. In my eyes with season 1 + 2 been 1 year in TVD time. I think it speaks volumes about the fact he kisses Katherine at the end of season 1 thinking it's Elena. That's 6 months! I've seen wrestling storylines last longer than 6 months. 6 Months is nothing and to me 6 months is an awfully fast amount of time. Which is something I understand to move story on but Stefen fell in love with Elena in like 1 week and damon 6 month. That's more disney love "Oh its love at first sight" than actual love. Ironically been that they split up. But I thought Bonnie + Jeremy felt the most real of TVD couple. Not the best to watch by any stretch of the imagination but more real than the main ones. Like I've I loved Delena at the time I mentioned but in six months Damon went from "Theres no world without Katherine" to making out with his brothers Girlfriend .... that's ridicules! Now I'm not saying that taints their love as every love in tvd world works this way. BUT thats sort of a facotor. Every love in TVD is fast and overly love! I could see Damon moving on to Bonnie by the end of season 7 not the start but by the end. Just because they have a strong enough connection right now that it could easily turn to love |
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Post by missmystic on Apr 14, 2015 12:30:55 GMT -5
So I didn't really want to go all out in this particular discussion (emotions seem to be riding high for obvious reasons), but I just wanted to comment on this a bit.
When you spend some time away from something you forget things. Season 1 and 2 of TVD was a long time ago. And everyone tends to pick and have different things that stick with them when they look back. So here's a cannon recap of Damon Salvatore's love life:
Katherine was his first love, and it ended in tragedy, which affected him pretty intensely. And people have made comments about him loving her even though she was dead for 145 years or whatever it was, but he actually KNEW Kat was alive. He spent 145 trying to find a way to rescue her. He thought she loved him as much as he loved her, and he thought she was in trouble and needed his help. And for a person who loves as fiercely as Damon, there was no question about his loyalty as far as he was concerned. The girl he loved needed him to come through for her, end of story. So he spent his entire life fighting for that goal. We don't even really know what sacrifices he had to make along the way, but we can assume that some sh*t went down for sure.
When he meets Elena, he doesn't go straight to loving her by any stretch. The first thing that happens is he finds himself respecting her, which he himself is surprised by. He's likely spent a lot of his life dealing with underhanded and dishonest people, he doesn't trust anyone. But here is Elena, this person who is undeniably good and kind and honest. And he admires her, he starts to trust her even, and she becomes maybe the first friend he's had in decades. He starts to care about her, about what happens to her, she becomes important to him.
But even during all of this, he is still loyally in love with Katherine. Until he finally learns that everything he ever believed to be true was a lie! Katherine is fine, living her life off somewhere else, she was never in trouble, she never needed his help, and she obviously didn't care about being with him or she would have been. Can you imagine spending 145 loyally loving someone only to find out they had lied to you and betrayed you? He is beyond devastated after that, broken, destroyed. And the only person who is genuinely there for him and concerned about his well being is Elena.
She spends time trying to help him through his grief and be his friend, something that is not common place in Damon's life. And he starts to see just how wrong he had been in loving Katherine, and how much of an amazing person Elena is. THAT is when he starts falling in love with her. And it wasn't all of a sudden. It took time, and trust, and it took him getting his heart ripped out and the sh*t kicked out of him to see Kat for who she really was. It's a lot easier to get over someone quickly when you have a reason to hate them.
And even after that, his love for Elena was in the juvenile stages for a while there. Because he still wasn't a whole person, he had a lot of growing up to do. But he does finally get to a place where he begins to understand what love really is, and that's when he is able to be selfless for the sake of her happiness and well being. That's when he starts to become the hero we know he is.
So this is me arguing that Damon didn't just fall in and out of love fast. All the circumstances of the situations matter. And they all fall in line with his character development. So what I am saying here is that the only realistic way a person like Damon could move on from Elena in a relatively short period of time would be if she betrays him in some unthinkable way and crushes his heart into a million pieces before she leaves. Then maybe he could hate her enough to move on sooner rather than later. But if she dies, or leaves due to compulsion or whatever, then there is just no way someone like Damon could just move on and be ok. She changed his life, she made him see his self worth. These are things no one else was ever able to do for him. He loves her, end of story. And he's not just going to forget that.
Hmmm....good points! I sure hope Elena isn't going to betray him. That would be the worst thing ever. I think the confusing part to me about when Damon actually found out that Katherine was alive is because in the flashbacks of him and Stefan right after they died and were in transition he says she is dead and he doesn't want to go on without her. So when exactly did he learn that she wasn't dead? I don't remember that. I guess it had to be during Emily's lifetime since he made a deal with her for Katherine's protection. Maybe Emily told him she was in the tomb under the church just to get him to protect her family because she knew she wasn't in that tomb. Did we ever get to see how that actually went down or when? He seemed pretty hopeless right after he turned and beyond...but anyway, just one of those lingering questions we may never get the answers to I guess. I'm pretty sure Emily told him she was in the tomb. But I actually think that Emily might not have known that Katherine Wasn't in the tomb. Because, remember when Emily took over Bonnie, didn't she say something to Damon about not being willing to let Katherine get out of their after all, and she destroyed the amulet thing that was supposed to be part of the spell to free Katherine? So I kind of think Katherine tricked even her. And at first Emily was willing to help Damon save her because of her debt to Katherine, but after she died I think she had a change of heart. That's the way I remember it anyways. And I think there was a scene that showed Emily telling Damon that Katherine was alive at some point, but I don't remember when that was. |
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Post by Somerhaldered on Apr 14, 2015 12:47:42 GMT -5
Hmmm....good points! I sure hope Elena isn't going to betray him. That would be the worst thing ever. I think the confusing part to me about when Damon actually found out that Katherine was alive is because in the flashbacks of him and Stefan right after they died and were in transition he says she is dead and he doesn't want to go on without her. So when exactly did he learn that she wasn't dead? I don't remember that. I guess it had to be during Emily's lifetime since he made a deal with her for Katherine's protection. Maybe Emily told him she was in the tomb under the church just to get him to protect her family because she knew she wasn't in that tomb. Did we ever get to see how that actually went down or when? He seemed pretty hopeless right after he turned and beyond...but anyway, just one of those lingering questions we may never get the answers to I guess. I'm pretty sure Emily told him she was in the tomb. But I actually think that Emily might not have known that Katherine Wasn't in the tomb. Because, remember when Emily took over Bonnie, didn't she say something to Damon about not being willing to let Katherine get out of their after all, and she destroyed the amulet thing that was supposed to be part of the spell to free Katherine? So I kind of think Katherine tricked even her. And at first Emily was willing to help Damon save her because of her debt to Katherine, but after she died I think she had a change of heart. That's the way I remember it anyways. And I think there was a scene that showed Emily telling Damon that Katherine was alive at some point, but I don't remember when that was. Yeah, that's how I remember it too. I believe the only person that knew Kat wasn't in the tomb was the guy she made a deal with that helped her escape (he later re-emerged, but I don't remember his name). So Damon made the deal with Emily to protect her family and he was eventually supposed to get the locket back which was the key to opening the tomb - of course with the help of a Bennett witch. Of course, when Bonnie and Grams eventually agreed to help him, Grams had decided it didn't matter because she was going to seal them all back in the tomb once Damon went in to get Kat. So I remember that he had initially thought she died but he met with Emily at one point (waay back when she was still alive) and that's when he found out. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Apr 14, 2015 12:48:25 GMT -5
Yeah Emily may not have known she wasn't in the tomb. Wasn't there some werewolf dude that ultimately helped Katherine escape from the church? Dang man this is some old stuff to try to remember...but anyway, still not sure when exactly Damon found out Katherine didn't die in the church fire cause he didn't want to turn thinking she was dead and he said it a couple times to Stefan.
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