|
|
Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 2, 2016 20:26:19 GMT -5
Oh Spuffy was awesome, I just loved bad ass spike (though angel season 5 found best balance between baddass + soul) I also love everyone loves Bangel or Spuffy , no one prefers Riley he's the Matt. Like It's Stelena or Delena no one was pro matt/Elena. I never watched the Angel series. I probably should but my lack of love of Angel is why I haven't, I guess. OMG You need too. He is so much more fun in his own. Plus this is one of the greatest things EVER: |
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 2, 2016 20:29:39 GMT -5
I never watched the Angel series. I probably should but my lack of love of Angel is why I haven't, I guess. OMG You need too. He is so much more fun in his own. Plus this is one of the greatest things EVER: Oh my God, that's awesome! Wee little puppet man! Is that Joss Whedon's writing? I love that guy! |
|
|
|
Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 2, 2016 20:31:24 GMT -5
OMG You need too. He is so much more fun in his own. Plus this is one of the greatest things EVER: Oh my God, that's awesome! Wee little puppet man! Is that Joss Whedon's writing? I love that guy! It is! Angel goes against evil puppet demons who are basically a sesame street show and gets turned into a puppet , hilarity ensues LOL |
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 2, 2016 20:35:30 GMT -5
I guess I know what I'll be watching next!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 22:49:32 GMT -5
Because he beat him when Damon said he set Elena on fire and killed her. Mental tricks ect... are ok but I love it when Damon or Stefan beat each other up and you can understand it. Example Damon punching stefan for "Your humanity is showing" = Meh. Damon punching stefan for accusing him of using his sire bond = Hell yeah! I.e If they they have a great reason and it come from a good place I like it. I feel Damon had more from the right place hits recently and I like Stefan getting one. Like Damon in the bad dream episode (i hate those so much , such a tired trope) killing everyone (almost) was just dull to me. Damon beating people when he has a reason I route for I cheer (example see above) I'm sorry If someone told me they set my girldfriend on fire and killed her to feel "like themselves" I'd hit them too. It's like anything give me a reason to cheer and I love it. Hence I loved both Batman vs Superman and Civil war. I felt the reasons were enough I could route for the violence. LOL...well Elena is pretty far removed from being Stefan's girlfriend now and in fact I felt like Stefan would have been better served to be empathetic to Damon's plight knowing how much he loved Elena and having set aside his own feelings in the matter a while ago. To me that would have been the more 'brotherly' thing to do in the circumstances rather than attack him. To me that showed he still doesn't get it and he will make it about him rather than others, which is not very heroic of him, being as he's supposed to be the hero. For me it just reaffirms how he is NOT the hero at all. So I'm a bit late to the party here lol. But I wanted to share a bit of my two cents on why the punch felt premature and out of place. The first being that Stefan knew that Damon coming out of the hell stone would suffer from hallucinations like he did and we actually see him confronting Damon about his state of mind. Yet when Damon talks about how Henry (someone who only exists in Damon's mind) had this idea to go to Elena and burn her coffin, Stefan doesn't even think for one second that Damon could be suffering from, I don't know a hallucination. Just like the many hallucinations he had about Caroline dying? He just automatically assumes that Damon would be capable of hurting Elena, the one person whose life he always puts before his own? That's where the writing fails, it makes no sense for Stefan to think this at all. We're not back in season 1. Stefan doesn't even take time to reason with Damon, tell him that there's no way he'd be capable of something like that, that Henry played some sick trick. Nope, he doesn't fact check anything at all, he just assumes the worst of Damon like he always does. And context plays into a lot of these 'punch scenes' and whether it even makes sense or not. Damon punching Stefan for saying a line about controlling Elena with the sire bond and how it's been convenient for him, was a well deserved punch because it was a gross remark. The punch Stefan gave Damon in this scene came off like bad writing because JP intentionally wrote this scene with Damon leaving out convenient information and Stefan conveniently not bothering to ask while he goes in a car and throws a tantrum over a hallucination which he should have figured since he was aware of Damon in this rocky state from the start. If the shoe was on the other foot, Damon would have been made to empathize with Stefan's plight or catch on to something being off about him. He would have never been made to believe that Stefan would have killed Elena. What makes this more ironic is that while Damon 'killed' Elena in a hallucination (which he thought he was burning Henry in the first place NOT Elena). Here we get a scene with Stefan while Damon is still in the phoenix stone of Stefan over his REAL body, ready to kill him, if Caroline hadn't conveniently walked in on the scene. |
|
|
|
Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 3, 2016 13:10:07 GMT -5
LOL...well Elena is pretty far removed from being Stefan's girlfriend now and in fact I felt like Stefan would have been better served to be empathetic to Damon's plight knowing how much he loved Elena and having set aside his own feelings in the matter a while ago. To me that would have been the more 'brotherly' thing to do in the circumstances rather than attack him. To me that showed he still doesn't get it and he will make it about him rather than others, which is not very heroic of him, being as he's supposed to be the hero. For me it just reaffirms how he is NOT the hero at all. So I'm a bit late to the party here lol. But I wanted to share a bit of my two cents on why the punch felt premature and out of place. The first being that Stefan knew that Damon coming out of the hell stone would suffer from hallucinations like he did and we actually see him confronting Damon about his state of mind. Yet when Damon talks about how Henry (someone who only exists in Damon's mind) had this idea to go to Elena and burn her coffin, Stefan doesn't even think for one second that Damon could be suffering from, I don't know a hallucination. Just like the many hallucinations he had about Caroline dying? He just automatically assumes that Damon would be capable of hurting Elena, the one person whose life he always puts before his own? That's where the writing fails, it makes no sense for Stefan to think this at all. We're not back in season 1. Stefan doesn't even take time to reason with Damon, tell him that there's no way he'd be capable of something like that, that Henry played some sick trick. Nope, he doesn't fact check anything at all, he just assumes the worst of Damon like he always does. And context plays into a lot of these 'punch scenes' and whether it even makes sense or not. Damon punching Stefan for saying a line about controlling Elena with the sire bond and how it's been convenient for him, was a well deserved punch because it was a gross remark. The punch Stefan gave Damon in this scene came off like bad writing because JP intentionally wrote this scene with Damon leaving out convenient information and Stefan conveniently not bothering to ask while he goes in a car and throws a tantrum over a hallucination which he should have figured since he was aware of Damon in this rocky state from the start. If the shoe was on the other foot, Damon would have been made to empathize with Stefan's plight or catch on to something being off about him. He would have never been made to believe that Stefan would have killed Elena. What makes this more ironic is that while Damon 'killed' Elena in a hallucination (which he thought he was burning Henry in the first place NOT Elena). Here we get a scene with Stefan while Damon is still in the phoenix stone of Stefan over his REAL body, ready to kill him, if Caroline hadn't conveniently walked in on the scene. I agree It's convenient. However when ever it came to people they care about neither thinks first. They do later but they always think the worst. Like it took how long in season 3 for damon to realise Stefan could be saved? Yet flash backs he already knew he could be based on past. Or season 1 or 2 Stefan instantly thought the worse of Damon and Elena had to talk him around. Their history of assuming the worst makes it seem consistent at least. It's like they said early on. Emotion is a vampire's biggest weakness. As if everything is heightened as they claim then slight anger before you would think straight would become rage. So I saw it as not to far fetched. Plus we got the bad ass "Stefan threatens Jullian" scene out of it which was fun. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 16:44:08 GMT -5
So I'm a bit late to the party here lol. But I wanted to share a bit of my two cents on why the punch felt premature and out of place. The first being that Stefan knew that Damon coming out of the hell stone would suffer from hallucinations like he did and we actually see him confronting Damon about his state of mind. Yet when Damon talks about how Henry (someone who only exists in Damon's mind) had this idea to go to Elena and burn her coffin, Stefan doesn't even think for one second that Damon could be suffering from, I don't know a hallucination. Just like the many hallucinations he had about Caroline dying? He just automatically assumes that Damon would be capable of hurting Elena, the one person whose life he always puts before his own? That's where the writing fails, it makes no sense for Stefan to think this at all. We're not back in season 1. Stefan doesn't even take time to reason with Damon, tell him that there's no way he'd be capable of something like that, that Henry played some sick trick. Nope, he doesn't fact check anything at all, he just assumes the worst of Damon like he always does. And context plays into a lot of these 'punch scenes' and whether it even makes sense or not. Damon punching Stefan for saying a line about controlling Elena with the sire bond and how it's been convenient for him, was a well deserved punch because it was a gross remark. The punch Stefan gave Damon in this scene came off like bad writing because JP intentionally wrote this scene with Damon leaving out convenient information and Stefan conveniently not bothering to ask while he goes in a car and throws a tantrum over a hallucination which he should have figured since he was aware of Damon in this rocky state from the start. If the shoe was on the other foot, Damon would have been made to empathize with Stefan's plight or catch on to something being off about him. He would have never been made to believe that Stefan would have killed Elena. What makes this more ironic is that while Damon 'killed' Elena in a hallucination (which he thought he was burning Henry in the first place NOT Elena). Here we get a scene with Stefan while Damon is still in the phoenix stone of Stefan over his REAL body, ready to kill him, if Caroline hadn't conveniently walked in on the scene. However when ever it came to people they care about neither thinks first. They do later but they always think the worst. Like it took how long in season 3 for damon to realise Stefan could be saved? Yet flash backs he already knew he could be based on past. Or season 1 or 2 Stefan instantly thought the worse of Damon and Elena had to talk him around. Their history of assuming the worst makes it seem consistent at least. It's like they said early on. Emotion is a vampire's biggest weakness. As if everything is heightened as they claim then slight anger before you would think straight would become rage. So I saw it as not to far fetched. Plus we got the bad ass "Stefan threatens Jullian" scene out of it which was fun. Despite you saying you agree, I still feel you don't quite get what I meant since you go off in an entirely different direction. I'll start by addressing your statement of, 'However when ever it came to people they care about neither thinks first.' Of course, TVD's not short of characters acting rashly to keep close friends alive. Everyone on this show has done something bad against random nobodies in the name of protecting someone they do care about in the gang. But that's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing convenience in terms of writing. I'm talking about bad writing in general. Stefan thinking the worst of Damon back in season 1 is one thing. This is season 7, Damon has been in love with Elena for the longest, why the heck does Stefan think Damon would kill the love of his life? Why would Damon say something like this now compared to three years ago, compared to the start of season 7? Why has Damon acted normally pretty much this entire time until now? What's the one thing that is suddenly different? The fact that he went inside the Phoenix Stone which makes you hallucinate and act crazy when you come out. Why does Stefan not put two and two together? He's acting like this is something that Damon has randomly decided to do out of the blue and instantly believes it as if Elena is some random girl they met on the street and not someone that Damon's been in a long standing relationship with. I'd expect a scene like this in season 1, not now. Stupid writing. I've already went into full detail why I believe this is bad and convenient writing, I always try to explain my points like this with examples and it isn't just me saying, 'Lol Stefan punching Damon was so stupid!' without any sense of reasoning behind it. I explain about how Stefan was concerned about Damon just coming from the Phoenix Stone because he would hallucinate. Stefan already experienced the symptons himself. He saw how strange Damon was being all day. After Damon said he killed Elena, the logical response from Stefan would have been shocked silence, and then him shaking his head and telling him instantly that this had to be an illusion. Damon mentions straight to Stefan's face that it was Henry's idea. Who the hell is Henry? Why doesn't Stefan even flinch at the name. He only exists in Damon's mind. Right there should have been a clue to Stefan of this being a product of a hallucination. Bad writing. Of course Damon may not instantly believe Stefan as to him it felt too real so then logically Stefan would then have to do some digging around and found out that Elena was still safe in her coffin. But this didn't occur. Since for some reason Damon left out information regarding how he went about killing Elena, and the fact that Stefan didn't ask. I realize it was written that way for convenience. Because if Stefan had probed more into details, then eventually they'd have come to the conclusion that Elena was actually still alive. And then JP couldn't use that as a catalyst to have Damon go on a downward destructive spiral and sleep with a random chick. If he knew that Elena was still alive then there'd be no reason for Damon to even act as he did the entire episode. |
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 4, 2016 12:22:03 GMT -5
So I'm a bit late to the party here lol. But I wanted to share a bit of my two cents on why the punch felt premature and out of place. The first being that Stefan knew that Damon coming out of the hell stone would suffer from hallucinations like he did and we actually see him confronting Damon about his state of mind. Yet when Damon talks about how Henry (someone who only exists in Damon's mind) had this idea to go to Elena and burn her coffin, Stefan doesn't even think for one second that Damon could be suffering from, I don't know a hallucination. Just like the many hallucinations he had about Caroline dying? He just automatically assumes that Damon would be capable of hurting Elena, the one person whose life he always puts before his own? That's where the writing fails, it makes no sense for Stefan to think this at all. We're not back in season 1. Stefan doesn't even take time to reason with Damon, tell him that there's no way he'd be capable of something like that, that Henry played some sick trick. Nope, he doesn't fact check anything at all, he just assumes the worst of Damon like he always does. And context plays into a lot of these 'punch scenes' and whether it even makes sense or not. Damon punching Stefan for saying a line about controlling Elena with the sire bond and how it's been convenient for him, was a well deserved punch because it was a gross remark. The punch Stefan gave Damon in this scene came off like bad writing because JP intentionally wrote this scene with Damon leaving out convenient information and Stefan conveniently not bothering to ask while he goes in a car and throws a tantrum over a hallucination which he should have figured since he was aware of Damon in this rocky state from the start. If the shoe was on the other foot, Damon would have been made to empathize with Stefan's plight or catch on to something being off about him. He would have never been made to believe that Stefan would have killed Elena. What makes this more ironic is that while Damon 'killed' Elena in a hallucination (which he thought he was burning Henry in the first place NOT Elena). Here we get a scene with Stefan while Damon is still in the phoenix stone of Stefan over his REAL body, ready to kill him, if Caroline hadn't conveniently walked in on the scene. I agree It's convenient. However when ever it came to people they care about neither thinks first. They do later but they always think the worst. Like it took how long in season 3 for damon to realise Stefan could be saved? Yet flash backs he already knew he could be based on past. Or season 1 or 2 Stefan instantly thought the worse of Damon and Elena had to talk him around. Their history of assuming the worst makes it seem consistent at least. It's like they said early on. Emotion is a vampire's biggest weakness. As if everything is heightened as they claim then slight anger before you would think straight would become rage. So I saw it as not to far fetched. Plus we got the bad ass "Stefan threatens Jullian" scene out of it which was fun. Not to pile on but I have to disagree with you about Damon's lack of realizing Stefan can be saved. First of all, he was trying to make Elena realize that it could be a very long time before Stefan came off his ripper binge, not that he was unsaveable. It had been Stefan's history for it to take 50+ years for him to recover and Elena was human at the time and would be an old woman before it happened if Stefan had followed his own history. Even though Damon told this to Elena, he hadn't given up hope. He was tracking Stefan. He was even following Stefan and cleaning up his messes to try to keep him from getting caught. Yes, he had moments or despair and fear that Stefan would not come out of it this time, but who wouldn't? What Damon never did was give up on Stefan, so much so that his pursuing Stefan even after Stefan told him not to, caused Stefan to kill Andie to 'teach him a lesson.' If the tables had been turned, I think Stefan wouldn't have gone to the same lengths to try to bring Damon back from the edge. I am hoping in this present time, that would not be the case and Stefan would do everything in his power to save Damon. I think the fact that Stefan still defaults to thinking the worst of Damon is bad writing as Anbu pointed out. Too much has happened that showed Stefan that Damon is not the person that he used to be but for convenience sake they always seem to make Stefan say something or do something that makes us go, "Hey wait a minute, Damon has shown he's not that guy anymore!" I'm not sure which episode this is so you may not have seen it yet, but for example, when Stefan was in the snow and Damon is on the phone with him telling him he's there and he's trying to find him and Stefan first insults him and then says something to the effect that he doesn't believe he's coming to find him. Like what? Why would you say such a thing? I mean he's driving around looking for him. It's things like that where the writing is failing to progress Stefan to a place where he really should be by now in regard to Damon's growth as a character. |
|
|
|
Post by vampirelust on Jul 4, 2016 14:51:54 GMT -5
Dammit, the phoenix stone story is where this whole season began to disintegrate for me. They only know how to write Defan one way and that is the Stefan is right/good and Damon is wrong/bad. Damon's hell was to show Damon making the wrong, selfish decisions over and over, culminating in tackling the issue that Damon could not forgive his mother. It was spun in such a way that we were meant to believe that Damon was WRONG to withold forgiveness and Stefan was right to forgive her. I did not agree with that narrative given what we were shown and what we know.
The fact that Damon ended up in the stone in the first place because of Stefans obsession with revenge (AGAIN!) was never really addressed in the narrative, instead Damon took a barrage of insults to his character about how awful he is, and how much he is a drain and a danger to everyone he cares about. It was like every character got plot amnesia and it was horrendous to watch quite frankly especially considering we are in S7 as Anbu pointed out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 4, 2016 14:56:02 GMT -5
Dammit, the phoenix stone story is where this whole season began to disintegrate for me. They only know how to write Defan one way and that is the Stefan is right/good and Damon is wrong/bad. Damon's hell was to show Damon making the wrong, selfish decisions over and over, culminating in tackling the issue that Damon could not forgive his mother. It was spun in such a way that we were meant to believe that Damon was WRONG to withold forgiveness and Stefan was right to forgive her. I did not agree with that narrative given what we were shown and what we know. The fact that Damon ended up in the stone in the first place because of Stefans obsession with revenge (AGAIN!) was never really addressed in the narrative, instead Damon took a barrage of insults to his character about how awful he is, and how much he is a drain and a danger to everyone he cares about. It was like every character got plot amnesia and it was horrendous to watch quite frankly especially considering we are in S7 as Anbu pointed out. You're absolutely right of course. This past season was awful. I mean really bad. It's like they completely lost their way. You can't circle back to the way things used to be once you go beyond that but I do think that JP wanted to show a different kind of growth for Damon. She just failed badly at it. She said that she wanted him to realize that he can also do good things for other people besides Elena. If that's true than I think it's a good point to make but the end result of that should be that Damon and everyone else realizes that Damon does good things for other people and not just Elena, not still throw the same tired stuff about 'bad' Damon out there episode after episode, season after season while we watch Damon do a hell of a lot of good things for everyone. The fact that nobody sees that he does good, except Elena, not even Damon himself is just getting beyond tiring. Now where we're at, of course, at the end of the season, since many characters STILL don't see the good things Damon does, I'm not sure how it's going to go from here and how much these same characters are going to want to help him now. |
|
|
|
Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 4, 2016 14:59:22 GMT -5
I agree It's convenient. However when ever it came to people they care about neither thinks first. They do later but they always think the worst. Like it took how long in season 3 for damon to realise Stefan could be saved? Yet flash backs he already knew he could be based on past. Or season 1 or 2 Stefan instantly thought the worse of Damon and Elena had to talk him around. Their history of assuming the worst makes it seem consistent at least. It's like they said early on. Emotion is a vampire's biggest weakness. As if everything is heightened as they claim then slight anger before you would think straight would become rage. So I saw it as not to far fetched. Plus we got the bad ass "Stefan threatens Jullian" scene out of it which was fun. Not to pile on but I have to disagree with you about Damon's lack of realizing Stefan can be saved. First of all, he was trying to make Elena realize that it could be a very long time before Stefan came off his ripper binge, not that he was unsaveable. It had been Stefan's history for it to take 50+ years for him to recover and Elena was human at the time and would be an old woman before it happened if Stefan had followed his own history. Even though Damon told this to Elena, he hadn't given up hope. He was tracking Stefan. He was even following Stefan and cleaning up his messes to try to keep him from getting caught. Yes, he had moments or despair and fear that Stefan would not come out of it this time, but who wouldn't? What Damon never did was give up on Stefan, so much so that his pursuing Stefan even after Stefan told him not to, caused Stefan to kill Andie to 'teach him a lesson.' If the tables had been turned, I think Stefan wouldn't have gone to the same lengths to try to bring Damon back from the edge. I am hoping in this present time, that would not be the case and Stefan would do everything in his power to save Damon. I think the fact that Stefan still defaults to thinking the worst of Damon is bad writing as Anbu pointed out. Too much has happened that showed Stefan that Damon is not the person that he used to be but for convenience sake they always seem to make Stefan say something or do something that makes us go, "Hey wait a minute, Damon has shown he's not that guy anymore!" I'm not sure which episode this is so you may not have seen it yet, but for example, when Stefan was in the snow and Damon is on the phone with him telling him he's there and he's trying to find him and Stefan first insults him and then says something to the effect that he doesn't believe he's coming to find him. Like what? Why would you say such a thing? I mean he's driving around looking for him. It's things like that where the writing is failing to progress Stefan to a place where he really should be by now in regard to Damon's growth as a character. That is true season 7 damon is not the same as season 1 I 100% agree. However I also look at it like this, for what over 100+ years every time Stefan let damon back into his life damon ruined it. now 3 years in universe of change vs 100+ years of trying to cause him "a life of misery" I can understand if Stefan is prepared to think the worse. It's like Stefan has had so many years of ripper addiction that even if he's a better person than he is as the ripper, if you give him human blood some people are still like "uhhhh not a good idea" Even Elena told Damon that he always lashes out. His ability to lash out as fast as he does or his anger issues IMO means people can doubt him. I mean we have watched IRL for 7 years. The characters in unverse have more than ten times that of negative. So I understand it. Is it always fair or just? No. But it makes sense to me.  Besides honestly from a creative sense Damon needs it. He always gets beat up now, Mostly does the right thing. But they need people reminding us of how "bad" he is as it keeps the character having his "dark badass" vibe. So I can understand it IRL and in Universe I understand not everyone likes it BUT a big section of Damon fans love him because he's the bad one and this is the best way to keep that without having to have him do bad things. I compare it to buffy a lot but look at spike. Once he had soul a lot found him boring. Then in season 7 he puts back on his coat , beats people up and acts tough again and people loved it. If you change it too much you can alienate a lot of people who got you to the dance. Like take me I love Damon but I admit I find him at times to be more boring than Stefan now. (not all the time just some) I always go "**** yeah" when damon does something bad ass lol |
|
|
|
Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 4, 2016 15:07:00 GMT -5
Not to pile on but I have to disagree with you about Damon's lack of realizing Stefan can be saved. First of all, he was trying to make Elena realize that it could be a very long time before Stefan came off his ripper binge, not that he was unsaveable. It had been Stefan's history for it to take 50+ years for him to recover and Elena was human at the time and would be an old woman before it happened if Stefan had followed his own history. Even though Damon told this to Elena, he hadn't given up hope. He was tracking Stefan. He was even following Stefan and cleaning up his messes to try to keep him from getting caught. Yes, he had moments or despair and fear that Stefan would not come out of it this time, but who wouldn't? What Damon never did was give up on Stefan, so much so that his pursuing Stefan even after Stefan told him not to, caused Stefan to kill Andie to 'teach him a lesson.' If the tables had been turned, I think Stefan wouldn't have gone to the same lengths to try to bring Damon back from the edge. I am hoping in this present time, that would not be the case and Stefan would do everything in his power to save Damon. I think the fact that Stefan still defaults to thinking the worst of Damon is bad writing as Anbu pointed out. Too much has happened that showed Stefan that Damon is not the person that he used to be but for convenience sake they always seem to make Stefan say something or do something that makes us go, "Hey wait a minute, Damon has shown he's not that guy anymore!" I'm not sure which episode this is so you may not have seen it yet, but for example, when Stefan was in the snow and Damon is on the phone with him telling him he's there and he's trying to find him and Stefan first insults him and then says something to the effect that he doesn't believe he's coming to find him. Like what? Why would you say such a thing? I mean he's driving around looking for him. It's things like that where the writing is failing to progress Stefan to a place where he really should be by now in regard to Damon's growth as a character. That is true season 7 damon is not the same as season 1 I 100% agree. However I also look at it like this, for what over 100+ years every time Stefan let damon back into his life damon ruined it. now 3 years in universe of change vs 100+ years of trying to cause him "a life of misery" I can understand if Stefan is prepared to think the worse. It's like Stefan has had so many years of ripper addiction that even if he's a better person than he is as the ripper, if you give him human blood some people are still like "uhhhh not a good idea" Even Elena told Damon that he always lashes out. His ability to lash out as fast as he does or his anger issues IMO means people can doubt him. I mean we have watched IRL for 7 years. The characters in unverse have more than ten times that of negative. So I understand it. Is it always fair or just? No. But it makes sense to me. Besides honestly from a creative sense Damon needs it. He always gets beat up now, Mostly does the right thing. But they need people reminding us of how "bad" he is as it keeps the character having his "dark badass" vibe. So I can understand it IRL and in Universe I understand not everyone likes it BUT a big section of Damon fans love him because he's the bad one and this is the best way to keep that without having to have him do bad things. I compare it to buffy a lot but look at spike. Once he had soul a lot found him boring. Then in season 7 he puts back on his coat , beats people up and acts tough again and people loved it. If you change it too much you can alienate a lot of people who got you to the dance. Like take me I love Damon but I admit I find him at times to be more boring than Stefan now. (not all the time just some) I always go "**** yeah" when damon does something bad ass lol Hmmm...good point. Yes I do love badass Damon but I think there are ways of having him be good and still keep his edge without turning him into a lapdog. Personally I never had a problem with 'bad' Damon. But the characters on this show have had a problem with it. Now they seem like they are crying wolf all the time and there's no wolf to be found. It's just out of step with the other side of what JP is trying to create which is Damon learning that he is capable of being good and not just for one person because he loves her but for lots of people. I think I already knew that back when he saved Caroline from Tyler's bite and on and on, going by the number of times he saved people that he didn't have to save, and who didn't even like him at the time, but he never realized it himself and I'd like him to, and I'd also like Caroline and Stefan to realize it as well. For all the bad Damon did, he has done a lot of good, too. It gets frustrating watching him do all this stuff for people and being treated like crap anyway. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 16:32:08 GMT -5
That is true season 7 damon is not the same as season 1 I 100% agree. However I also look at it like this, for what over 100+ years every time Stefan let damon back into his life damon ruined it. now 3 years in universe of change vs 100+ years of trying to cause him "a life of misery" I can understand if Stefan is prepared to think the worse. It's like Stefan has had so many years of ripper addiction that even if he's a better person than he is as the ripper, if you give him human blood some people are still like "uhhhh not a good idea" Even Elena told Damon that he always lashes out. His ability to lash out as fast as he does or his anger issues IMO means people can doubt him. I mean we have watched IRL for 7 years. The characters in unverse have more than ten times that of negative. So I understand it. Is it always fair or just? No. But it makes sense to me. Besides honestly from a creative sense Damon needs it. He always gets beat up now, Mostly does the right thing. But they need people reminding us of how "bad" he is as it keeps the character having his "dark badass" vibe. So I can understand it IRL and in Universe I understand not everyone likes it BUT a big section of Damon fans love him because he's the bad one and this is the best way to keep that without having to have him do bad things. I compare it to buffy a lot but look at spike. Once he had soul a lot found him boring. Then in season 7 he puts back on his coat , beats people up and acts tough again and people loved it. If you change it too much you can alienate a lot of people who got you to the dance. Like take me I love Damon but I admit I find him at times to be more boring than Stefan now. (not all the time just some) I always go "**** yeah" when damon does something bad ass lol Hmmm...good point. Yes I do love badass Damon but I think there are ways of having him be good and still keep his edge without turning him into a lapdog. Personally I never had a problem with 'bad' Damon. But the characters on this show have had a problem with it. Now they seem like they are crying wolf all the time and there's no wolf to be found. It's just out of step with the other side of what JP is trying to create which is Damon learning that he is capable of being good and not just for one person because he loves her but for lots of people. I think I already knew that back when he saved Caroline from Tyler's bite and on and on, going by the number of times he saved people that he didn't have to save, and who didn't even like him at the time, but he never realized it himself and I'd like him to, and I'd also like Caroline and Stefan to realize it as well. For all the bad Damon did, he has done a lot of good, too. It gets frustrating watching him do all this stuff for people and being treated like crap anyway.Season 7 was horrendous in this regard. There's literally no sense of growth or any ounce of common sense with these characters. Like the scene Doppel mentioned with Stefan/Damon in the show. The characters talk bad about Damon without him having to do any of the bad. I just find the characters surrounding him to be massive idiots and the writing to be such an insult to my intelligence that I dreaded having to come back and watch this after watching other shows with far superior writing that was actually entertaining to watch and not a massive headache and chore. Also I wouldn't necessarily say we on this board are in the minority vs a 'big section of Damon fans' who think otherwise. The ratings for this season are surprisingly low and the second half of the season undergoes a gradual decline in the ratings that it could not recover from. The ratings speak more volumes than hypotheticals. |
|
|
|
Post by vampirelust on Jul 5, 2016 11:21:46 GMT -5
Hmmm...good point. Yes I do love badass Damon but I think there are ways of having him be good and still keep his edge without turning him into a lapdog. Personally I never had a problem with 'bad' Damon. But the characters on this show have had a problem with it. Now they seem like they are crying wolf all the time and there's no wolf to be found. It's just out of step with the other side of what JP is trying to create which is Damon learning that he is capable of being good and not just for one person because he loves her but for lots of people. I think I already knew that back when he saved Caroline from Tyler's bite and on and on, going by the number of times he saved people that he didn't have to save, and who didn't even like him at the time, but he never realized it himself and I'd like him to, and I'd also like Caroline and Stefan to realize it as well. For all the bad Damon did, he has done a lot of good, too. It gets frustrating watching him do all this stuff for people and being treated like crap anyway.Season 7 was horrendous in this regard. There's literally no sense of growth or any ounce of common sense with these characters. Like the scene Doppel mentioned with Stefan/Damon in the show. The characters talk bad about Damon without him having to do any of the bad. I just find the characters surrounding him to be massive idiots and the writing to be such an insult to my intelligence that I dreaded having to come back and watch this after watching other shows with far superior writing that was actually entertaining to watch and not a massive headache and chore. Also I wouldn't necessarily say we on this board are in the minority vs a 'big section of Damon fans' who think otherwise. The ratings for this season are surprisingly low and the second half of the season undergoes a gradual decline in the ratings that it could not recover from. The ratings speak more volumes than hypotheticals. Exactly. Stefan had just experienced the "loss" of Damon in season 6. Without Damon in his life he was a train wreck by his own admission, struggling with his identity and purpose and his epiphany at the end of 6 when he finally recognised that he needed Damon more than he ever needed Elena was fantastic character growth. So...where the heck did all this growth disappear too in season 7?? there was literally zero sign of THAT Stefan, instead we got a season 1 factory settings Stefan who was back to demeaning Damon's actions, feelings and calling him a monster (this was before he thought that Damon had killed Elena)....It just makes no sense at all. What I found frustrating was Stefan's phoenix stone hell was pushing him to kill or let go of Damon in order to escape but why??? There was no reason for this because Damon had done nothing to hurt Stefan in recent times and in fact Damon had only done good things for him including saving his life and encouraging his relationship with Caroline. Like I said it does not make sense according to the story that had been told before, it was forced, contrived garbage purely designed to prop up Stefan into the lead romantic hero slot again with Caroline as his new "Elena". Stefan as a stand alone character is just not strong enough to carry this show but the writers are still desperate to keep him in that position and to do that they have to retcon and ruin established backstory and character development of pretty much everyone else to achieve that and it sucks. The evidence is there in the show. Caroline...Stefans personal cheerleader no matter what, content to ignore every s***ty thing he did because she fancied him. Turned into a hypocritical, childish desperado all in service of propping up Stefan as the "good hero " brother. Katherine..... Once a badass mastermind with wiles and guile ended by her infatuation with Stefan the stud. It made a mockery of her character and just ruined her all in service of again propping up Stefan as some kind of special guy. Just not believable IMO. Rebekah.... Again, at times an awesome badass but once in the realm of Stefan Salvatore becomes a needy, whiny simpering mess of a girl. Klaus.......... Made to look like a desperate lonely saddo that loved Stefan so much that he wanted a brothership with him. Klaus was a badass in S2, a relentless moster that would stop at nothing to achieve his goals, but he was stripped of all that and reduced to a simpering needy friend when around Stefan. Elena............Turned into a desperate, whiny needy child who was willing to forgive and forget everything he did to her in service of promoting Stefan in the triangle drama. Also in season 5 Elena was made to say ridiculous things to Stefan to prop up the good/bad dichotomy to the point where I actively disliked Elena. Elena is weak willed around Stefan. Damon.....Rarely allowed to defend himself or give Stefan any grief. Damon is not allowed to call Stefan out on his bad decisions but rather made to defend and support Stefan. When they are at odds, it is nearly always framed in such a way that Stefan's POV is the right one. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 13:33:22 GMT -5
Season 7 was horrendous in this regard. There's literally no sense of growth or any ounce of common sense with these characters. Like the scene Doppel mentioned with Stefan/Damon in the show. The characters talk bad about Damon without him having to do any of the bad. I just find the characters surrounding him to be massive idiots and the writing to be such an insult to my intelligence that I dreaded having to come back and watch this after watching other shows with far superior writing that was actually entertaining to watch and not a massive headache and chore. Also I wouldn't necessarily say we on this board are in the minority vs a 'big section of Damon fans' who think otherwise. The ratings for this season are surprisingly low and the second half of the season undergoes a gradual decline in the ratings that it could not recover from. The ratings speak more volumes than hypotheticals. Exactly. Stefan had just experienced the "loss" of Damon in season 6. Without Damon in his life he was a train wreck by his own admission, struggling with his identity and purpose and his epiphany at the end of 6 when he finally recognised that he needed Damon more than he ever needed Elena was fantastic character growth. So...where the heck did all this growth disappear too in season 7?? there was literally zero sign of THAT Stefan, instead we got a season 1 factory settings Stefan who was back to demeaning Damon's actions, feelings and calling him a monster (this was before he thought that Damon had killed Elena)....It just makes no sense at all. What I found frustrating was Stefan's phoenix stone hell was pushing him to kill or let go of Damon in order to escape but why??? There was no reason for this because Damon had done nothing to hurt Stefan in recent times and in fact Damon had only done good things for him including saving his life and encouraging his relationship with Caroline. Like I said it does not make sense according to the story that had been told before, it was forced, contrived garbage purely designed to prop up Stefan into the lead romantic hero slot again with Caroline as his new "Elena". Stefan as a stand alone character is just not strong enough to carry this show but the writers are still desperate to keep him in that position and to do that they have to retcon and ruin established backstory and character development of pretty much everyone else to achieve that and it sucks. The evidence is there in the show. Caroline...Stefans personal cheerleader no matter what, content to ignore every s***ty thing he did because she fancied him. Turned into a hypocritical, childish desperado all in service of propping up Stefan as the "good hero " brother. Katherine..... Once a badass mastermind with wiles and guile ended by her infatuation with Stefan the stud. It made a mockery of her character and just ruined her all in service of again propping up Stefan as some kind of special guy. Just not believable IMO. Rebekah.... Again, at times an awesome badass but once in the realm of Stefan Salvatore becomes a needy, whiny simpering mess of a girl. Klaus.......... Made to look like a desperate lonely saddo that loved Stefan so much that he wanted a brothership with him. Klaus was a badass in S2, a relentless moster that would stop at nothing to achieve his goals, but he was stripped of all that and reduced to a simpering needy friend when around Stefan. Elena............Turned into a desperate, whiny needy child who was willing to forgive and forget everything he did to her in service of promoting Stefan in the triangle drama. Also in season 5 Elena was made to say ridiculous things to Stefan to prop up the good/bad dichotomy to the point where I actively disliked Elena. Elena is weak willed around Stefan. Damon.....Rarely allowed to defend himself or give Stefan any grief. Damon is not allowed to call Stefan out on his bad decisions but rather made to defend and support Stefan. When they are at odds, it is nearly always framed in such a way that Stefan's POV is the right one. There's such an abundance of evidence for the biased writing towards Stefan it's ridiculous. Sometimes the show tries way too hard to make Stefan the good one. When it comes to ripper Stefan, this is hardly brought up or talked about. It was hyped up to be this thing that was abnormal to even the normal vampires yet they somehow manage to make this trait come off more like a slap on the wrist. And still claim that Damon is the horrible bad brother who's so despicable and needs to be punished. The witches, when that was still a thing, would always talk about him being pure and everything. Caroline even makes light of the ripper thing by telling Elena that Stefan being a ripper isn't as bad as Damon being a manwhore. LOL. Or the fact that when Damon who was single and currently in a relationship with nobody, when he sleeps with Rebekah, it's made out to be this big and horrible things as if he actually cheated on Elena, who he wasn't with at the time. Stefan can be with Caroline one moment saying how much he's in love with her, then leaves with Valerie and ends up dating her apparently and yet writes letters behind her back to Caroline and you'd think he'd get chewed out for something like this. Every other character on this show has gotten chewed out when they did crappy things in their relationships. Yet instead we get a break up scene where Valerie who suddenly did a 180 in personality and lets Stefan off the hook, states that he loved her in his own special way, and even gives him her blessings for Caroline. He gets a free pass with none of the guilt. And if this biased writing wasn't as notable before, season 7 makes it more obvious because they practically shove the Damon hate train down your throat with every new character coming being for Stefan and immediately against Damon. And this point you brought out below: Damon.....Rarely allowed to defend himself or give Stefan any grief. Damon is not allowed to call Stefan out on his bad decisions but rather made to defend and support Stefan. When they are at odds, it is nearly always framed in such a way that Stefan's POV is the right one.As if it wasn't already annoying that Stefan has pretty much every character on the show propping him up. Even Damon has been made to blindly follow Stefan or take his words for matter. You can't even claim, well that's just the character. Since once upon a time, in the old seasons Damon would call out crap like this. He would talk harsh truths, like how he'd be the one to keep everyone alive while Stefan was babying their feelings. Now he no longer even has a voice, he has to just take a bunch of insults hurled at his face even when it doesn't make sense. Why does Valerie call Damon a self serving narcissist when she and Stefan are banking on the fact that Damon is going to sacrifice his life in taking the mark from Stefan? It's things like this that are frustrating to watch. The characters act like idiots and a lot of the dialogue is out of place and said for the sake of it. Like you mentioned season 6 made it seem that Stefan finally hit a realization regarding Damon, once when Damon died and how lost he felt without his brother, and second when he was standing over Elena's coffin talking about how he needed Damon more than he needed Elena. Yet all we get is Stefan continuing to insult Damon all season, back to assuming the worst of Damon, calling him manipulative, insulting his intelligence and acting like Damon is just extra baggage that he can't depend on. Of course now here we are again, at the end of the season with another realization by Stefan that makes it seem like he's finally progressed with his thinking in regards to Damon. Here's hoping this mindset sticks going into season 8 and it doesn't get retconned for the nth time already. |
|
i always avoid when its on hiatus here to avoid spoilers
Jun 10, 2016 15:46:17 GMT -5