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Post by vampirelust on Jul 7, 2016 14:35:17 GMT -5
Oh I understand what people mean. I like to look in universe too. Like i said I look at it the other way though. I put myself in the character's shoes. If irl I knew someone was say a theif for 20 years. He stayed at my house and has been clean for a month. If my wallet goes missing i'd blame him. Hell I know someone who has a reputation as a "thug" who always hits people. We all say it about him and he's a friend. He's not actually hit some one for about 5 years but growing up he always did. Now that's stuck. I don't care if damon has been good for like 2 years in the show. He did so much bad and had so many years of been an asshole that I understand it if the characters only see the negative yet as the history is too long. More so if it's stefan has he's been burnt there before so would have trust issues. I was just saying I look at both. As in universe makes sense and behind the scenes reasons make sense so I can understand. I will be honest I'm actually liking season 7. Season 5 sucked so much season 6 was better but had bad too. Season 7 has a lot going for it. 1. Julian is the first villian I've enjoyed since Klaus (not liked others) , 2. I understand some wont like this but no Elena. 3. Stefan/Caroline is a great couple and cool dynamic. 4.The flash forwards has an arrow like vibe. Is season 7 as good as 1 to 3? No that was great tv but I liked more than last 2 years. I feel most who hate season 7 (not accusing ones here) were the ones who said the second Elena left "next year will suck" so they are looking for more mistakes where the writing has been this way for like 4 years. This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Personally I was never one of those fans that hoped this show would tank without Elena, but I have to admit that I think the show should have ended at the end of S6 because I personally felt there was little more story to tell without recycling even more than they already did in S6, and I was right and so were many others. Elena leaving has not improved the writing or cohesive storytelling IMO. The side characters that have been around since forever still got limited development and screen time despite the absence of Elena because her screentime was swallowed up with the pointless heretics that very few people got invested with and in the end proved pretty much irrelevant to the overall plot of the season. I won't say more on that subject since I know you haven't finished watching yet but you will see what I mean. I actually started off this season quite positive because I liked what they were doing with Damon then they ruined it around episode 10. |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 7, 2016 15:47:18 GMT -5
Oh I understand what people mean. I like to look in universe too. Like i said I look at it the other way though. I put myself in the character's shoes. If irl I knew someone was say a theif for 20 years. He stayed at my house and has been clean for a month. If my wallet goes missing i'd blame him. Hell I know someone who has a reputation as a "thug" who always hits people. We all say it about him and he's a friend. He's not actually hit some one for about 5 years but growing up he always did. Now that's stuck. I don't care if damon has been good for like 2 years in the show. He did so much bad and had so many years of been an asshole that I understand it if the characters only see the negative yet as the history is too long. More so if it's stefan has he's been burnt there before so would have trust issues. I was just saying I look at both. As in universe makes sense and behind the scenes reasons make sense so I can understand. I will be honest I'm actually liking season 7. Season 5 sucked so much season 6 was better but had bad too. Season 7 has a lot going for it. 1. Julian is the first villian I've enjoyed since Klaus (not liked others) , 2. I understand some wont like this but no Elena. 3. Stefan/Caroline is a great couple and cool dynamic. 4.The flash forwards has an arrow like vibe. Is season 7 as good as 1 to 3? No that was great tv but I liked more than last 2 years. I feel most who hate season 7 (not accusing ones here) were the ones who said the second Elena left "next year will suck" so they are looking for more mistakes where the writing has been this way for like 4 years. This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Stefan would not be applied by my rule. Not because I think Stefan is perfect BUT they got to know good stefan first that his darkness is a kin to seeing a loved one battle addiction. You know the old them is still there you hope for it so much. vs Damon they knew as a villain first. So for damon they saw more evil first hand and never knew good damon first. The only one who did was Stefan but again he got burnt too much Enzo I agree with you completely. Klaus the Mystic falls guys normally look at as a villain and hatred BUT I agree they should. I was not counting Enzo as so far this season he's been bumped screen time wise to pop-up character. and Klaus is in another show. I was just going by main characters. As for the others they all do bad things yes. But some do less bad than others. Like Caroline has done less evil than either brother I see her + Bonnie as the closet we have to very good. Stefan does go more grey. Sadly though Damon in the eyes of the characters has done so much wrong BUT that's good as he will get to be fully redeemed in everyone's eyes. Hell he already is starting too. Look at season 1 stefan. Only wants elena and wants Damon gone. Then look at season 6. He yells at elena for erasing damon from her and shows he cares. Redemption is a two way street. People are trusting Damon more and more and they are thinking of him differently BUT just like Damon has years of wrong to make up for, they have to slowly accept it. They are it's just not instant which is good. I find watching people now slowly learn to accept him as interesting as him earning it. He had like 3-4 seasons to learn to change the others need time to change their minds too. ------ Side note (not to you but to all) I like to look at all parts and over think things too. I just don't share it as much with TVD fanbase. I do it with star wars , comics , wrestling , tv shows , movies ect.... BUT I stopped sharing it with TVD "fanbase" as no offence I find the fanbase to be toxic than other fanbases as most look to make their ship work and curse you out for liking another in really bad ways. I've seen actors gets death threats from fans who "love the show" But the worst to me. I saw a young girl in my family now she's old enough, I let her watch my season 1 dvd and posted on twitter that she liked bonnie the witch. She has since deleted her twitter and refuses to watch any more. Why? she had nothing but "You like bonnie? go ****ing die" messages that a) It's a show **** you b) She can like anyone she wants. c) never threaten real people. But her harassment was way to much. People blaming her for Elena, People who just dont like Bonnie , Racists as the N word was used a lot. This board is the ONLY fanbase i now use for the TVD. I Don't even talk about to anyone irl anymore as the fanbase is no offence to anyone here THE WORST I have seen. Again though not saying this board as I like coming here it's just tainted when you look at the whole more. I just had to get that rant out the way as I honestly just considered selling my dvds of each season and my blurays as I didn't want to be associated with it. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 7, 2016 17:00:25 GMT -5
This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Stefan would not be applied by my rule. Not because I think Stefan is perfect BUT they got to know good stefan first that his darkness is a kin to seeing a loved one battle addiction. You know the old them is still there you hope for it so much. vs Damon they knew as a villain first. So for damon they saw more evil first hand and never knew good damon first. The only one who did was Stefan but again he got burnt too much Enzo I agree with you completely. Klaus the Mystic falls guys normally look at as a villain and hatred BUT I agree they should. I was not counting Enzo as so far this season he's been bumped screen time wise to pop-up character. and Klaus is in another show. I was just going by main characters. As for the others they all do bad things yes. But some do less bad than others. Like Caroline has done less evil than either brother I see her + Bonnie as the closet we have to very good. Stefan does go more grey. Sadly though Damon in the eyes of the characters has done so much wrong BUT that's good as he will get to be fully redeemed in everyone's eyes. Hell he already is starting too. Look at season 1 stefan. Only wants elena and wants Damon gone. Then look at season 6. He yells at elena for erasing damon from her and shows he cares. Redemption is a two way street. People are trusting Damon more and more and they are thinking of him differently BUT just like Damon has years of wrong to make up for, they have to slowly accept it. They are it's just not instant which is good. I find watching people now slowly learn to accept him as interesting as him earning it. He had like 3-4 seasons to learn to change the others need time to change their minds too. ------ Side note (not to you but to all) I like to look at all parts and over think things too. I just don't share it as much with TVD fanbase. I do it with star wars , comics , wrestling , tv shows , movies ect.... BUT I stopped sharing it with TVD "fanbase" as no offence I find the fanbase to be toxic than other fanbases as most look to make their ship work and curse you out for liking another in really bad ways. I've seen actors gets death threats from fans who "love the show" But the worst to me. I saw a young girl in my family now she's old enough, I let her watch my season 1 dvd and posted on twitter that she liked bonnie the witch. She has since deleted her twitter and refuses to watch any more. Why? she had nothing but "You like bonnie? go ****ing die" messages that a) It's a show **** you b) She can like anyone she wants. c) never threaten real people. But her harassment was way to much. People blaming her for Elena, People who just dont like Bonnie , Racists as the N word was used a lot. This board is the ONLY fanbase i now use for the TVD. I Don't even talk about to anyone irl anymore as the fanbase is no offence to anyone here THE WORST I have seen. Again though not saying this board as I like coming here it's just tainted when you look at the whole more. I just had to get that rant out the way as I honestly just considered selling my dvds of each season and my blurays as I didn't want to be associated with it. I have heard similar things from other fanbases as well. I think JP pits the fans against each other even more than some other shows do and the audience is probably somewhat younger, perhaps, not all of us (LOL) but that could also affect how people behave. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 17:21:56 GMT -5
Oh I understand what people mean. I like to look in universe too. Like i said I look at it the other way though. I put myself in the character's shoes. If irl I knew someone was say a theif for 20 years. He stayed at my house and has been clean for a month. If my wallet goes missing i'd blame him. Hell I know someone who has a reputation as a "thug" who always hits people. We all say it about him and he's a friend. He's not actually hit some one for about 5 years but growing up he always did. Now that's stuck. I don't care if damon has been good for like 2 years in the show. He did so much bad and had so many years of been an asshole that I understand it if the characters only see the negative yet as the history is too long. More so if it's stefan has he's been burnt there before so would have trust issues. I was just saying I look at both. As in universe makes sense and behind the scenes reasons make sense so I can understand. I will be honest I'm actually liking season 7. Season 5 sucked so much season 6 was better but had bad too. Season 7 has a lot going for it. 1. Julian is the first villian I've enjoyed since Klaus (not liked others) , 2. I understand some wont like this but no Elena. 3. Stefan/Caroline is a great couple and cool dynamic. 4.The flash forwards has an arrow like vibe. Is season 7 as good as 1 to 3? No that was great tv but I liked more than last 2 years. I feel most who hate season 7 (not accusing ones here) were the ones who said the second Elena left "next year will suck" so they are looking for more mistakes where the writing has been this way for like 4 years. This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Personally I was never one of those fans that hoped this show would tank without Elena, but I have to admit that I think the show should have ended at the end of S6 because I personally felt there was little more story to tell without recycling even more than they already did in S6, and I was right and so were many others. Elena leaving has not improved the writing or cohesive storytelling IMO. The side characters that have been around since forever still got limited development and screen time despite the absence of Elena because her screentime was swallowed up with the pointless heretics that very few people got invested with and in the end proved pretty much irrelevant to the overall plot of the season. I won't say more on that subject since I know you haven't finished watching yet but you will see what I mean. I actually started off this season quite positive because I liked what they were doing with Damon then they ruined it around episode 10. The bolded speaks so much volumes in regards to the storytelling of season 7. What's more, is I can't even really blame some of those fans who were wanting the show to tank without Elena because it's like you mentioned in the bolded. JP was pretty much hyped about Nina's leave. She talked about how now she could focus on the relationship of Damon and Stefan as the true 'love story' of the show and how some of the side characters could finally begin to get more screen time and focus now that things didn't have to focus so heavily on Elena. In essence, she pretty much blamed the character of Elena as the fault of these points in her writing, that Elena was preventing her from focusing on Defan or using other characters as much as she wanted and that with Elena gone, there would be so much more stories she was excited to tell. So if you're going to make a claim like that, be prepared for the massive wave of gloating coming your way from fans who see the opposite happen. Now that Elena was gone, why was the relationship of Damon and Stefan still pretty much... oh I don't know, the same as it always has been even with Elena present? Her being there or not literally changed nothing. Side characters that Elena was taking oh so much screen time from, still stayed pretty much in the background. Matt was as non existent as ever, Alaric still only showed up whenever it was convenient and still barely interacted with Damon, Bonnie suddenly had even less people to interact with and was stuck to glue to Damon for most of the season and suddenly her friendship with Caroline disappeared in the coffin with Elena. I gave sesaon 7 the benefit of the doubt, and now that I've seen how it all spanned out, I wish I stuck to my earlier guns and not bothered, but I kept thinking, there's no way things would be that bad. Since JP hyped it up that now that Elena was gone, all of the above would happen, but it didn't. And instead of getting stories with characters we cared about, she had more fun writing basically random nobodies that showed up and suddenly became so important and in the end all ending up dead and leaving and feeling like we've wasted screen time with them. I'd think it'd be a different story if JP didn't talk about Elena as the problem to explain away her faulty writing, so forgive me a part of me does find amusement in that, she should have just kept her mouth shut since now she made herself out to be an idiot since the problems she talked about, still persisted even without Elena being there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 17:38:19 GMT -5
This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Stefan would not be applied by my rule. Not because I think Stefan is perfect BUT they got to know good stefan first that his darkness is a kin to seeing a loved one battle addiction. You know the old them is still there you hope for it so much. vs Damon they knew as a villain first. So for damon they saw more evil first hand and never knew good damon first. The only one who did was Stefan but again he got burnt too much Enzo I agree with you completely. Klaus the Mystic falls guys normally look at as a villain and hatred BUT I agree they should. I was not counting Enzo as so far this season he's been bumped screen time wise to pop-up character. and Klaus is in another show. I was just going by main characters. As for the others they all do bad things yes. But some do less bad than others. Like Caroline has done less evil than either brother I see her + Bonnie as the closet we have to very good. Stefan does go more grey. Sadly though Damon in the eyes of the characters has done so much wrong BUT that's good as he will get to be fully redeemed in everyone's eyes. Hell he already is starting too. Look at season 1 stefan. Only wants elena and wants Damon gone. Then look at season 6. He yells at elena for erasing damon from her and shows he cares. Redemption is a two way street. People are trusting Damon more and more and they are thinking of him differently BUT just like Damon has years of wrong to make up for, they have to slowly accept it. They are it's just not instant which is good. I find watching people now slowly learn to accept him as interesting as him earning it. He had like 3-4 seasons to learn to change the others need time to change their minds too. ------ Side note (not to you but to all) I like to look at all parts and over think things too. I just don't share it as much with TVD fanbase. I do it with star wars , comics , wrestling , tv shows , movies ect.... BUT I stopped sharing it with TVD "fanbase" as no offence I find the fanbase to be toxic than other fanbases as most look to make their ship work and curse you out for liking another in really bad ways. I've seen actors gets death threats from fans who "love the show" But the worst to me. I saw a young girl in my family now she's old enough, I let her watch my season 1 dvd and posted on twitter that she liked bonnie the witch. She has since deleted her twitter and refuses to watch any more. Why? she had nothing but "You like bonnie? go ****ing die" messages that a) It's a show **** you b) She can like anyone she wants. c) never threaten real people. But her harassment was way to much. People blaming her for Elena, People who just dont like Bonnie , Racists as the N word was used a lot. This board is the ONLY fanbase i now use for the TVD. I Don't even talk about to anyone irl anymore as the fanbase is no offence to anyone here THE WORST I have seen. Again though not saying this board as I like coming here it's just tainted when you look at the whole more. I just had to get that rant out the way as I honestly just considered selling my dvds of each season and my blurays as I didn't want to be associated with it. Another thing in regards to the toxic fandom, in addition to what Doppel also stated, is that TVD is pretty much heavily run by it's ships. This show started with the premise of a love triangle of a girl between brothers so right from the start the fandom was destined to be split and take sides. Of course it'd be great if people could state their opinions without being nasty to each other but who are we kidding, it's the internet and people can hide behind their screens and stay anonymous. Things have gotten so bad now that you can easily get attacked out of nowhere for stating who your favorite pairing or character is like the above example you mentioned. I can see how TVD can look like the worst in this context, but TVD is also a show on a small network. There are more popular shows on bigger networks that are much worst than TVDs fandom and if you're someone who goes from show to show that has more focus on romance compared to something more action-y like wrestling, you're almost always going to have a more divided fandom and rabid fans expressing their hate/love for said characters and relationships. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 7, 2016 18:59:59 GMT -5
This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Personally I was never one of those fans that hoped this show would tank without Elena, but I have to admit that I think the show should have ended at the end of S6 because I personally felt there was little more story to tell without recycling even more than they already did in S6, and I was right and so were many others. Elena leaving has not improved the writing or cohesive storytelling IMO. The side characters that have been around since forever still got limited development and screen time despite the absence of Elena because her screentime was swallowed up with the pointless heretics that very few people got invested with and in the end proved pretty much irrelevant to the overall plot of the season. I won't say more on that subject since I know you haven't finished watching yet but you will see what I mean. I actually started off this season quite positive because I liked what they were doing with Damon then they ruined it around episode 10. The bolded speaks so much volumes in regards to the storytelling of season 7. What's more, is I can't even really blame some of those fans who were wanting the show to tank without Elena because it's like you mentioned in the bolded. JP was pretty much hyped about Nina's leave. She talked about how now she could focus on the relationship of Damon and Stefan as the true 'love story' of the show and how some of the side characters could finally begin to get more screen time and focus now that things didn't have to focus so heavily on Elena. In essence, she pretty much blamed the character of Elena as the fault of these points in her writing, that Elena was preventing her from focusing on Defan or using other characters as much as she wanted and that with Elena gone, there would be so much more stories she was excited to tell. So if you're going to make a claim like that, be prepared for the massive wave of gloating coming your way from fans who see the opposite happen. Now that Elena was gone, why was the relationship of Damon and Stefan still pretty much... oh I don't know, the same as it always has been even with Elena present? Her being there or not literally changed nothing. Side characters that Elena was taking oh so much screen time from, still stayed pretty much in the background. Matt was as non existent as ever, Alaric still only showed up whenever it was convenient and still barely interacted with Damon, Bonnie suddenly had even less people to interact with and was stuck to glue to Damon for most of the season and suddenly her friendship with Caroline disappeared in the coffin with Elena. I gave sesaon 7 the benefit of the doubt, and now that I've seen how it all spanned out, I wish I stuck to my earlier guns and not bothered, but I kept thinking, there's no way things would be that bad. Since JP hyped it up that now that Elena was gone, all of the above would happen, but it didn't. And instead of getting stories with characters we cared about, she had more fun writing basically random nobodies that showed up and suddenly became so important and in the end all ending up dead and leaving and feeling like we've wasted screen time with them. I'd think it'd be a different story if JP didn't talk about Elena as the problem to explain away her faulty writing, so forgive me a part of me does find amusement in that, she should have just kept her mouth shut since now she made herself out to be an idiot since the problems she talked about, still persisted even without Elena being there. Agreed, and relying on Ians popularity to carry the show regardless of the garbage she writes for his character will not keep fans watching despite how pretty he is. The proof is there to be seen. Ian still has a massive fanbase, his facebook video he posted only yesterday has almost 2,000,000 hits/likes or whatever already. Where are those fans? they are certainly not watching him on TVD or voting in polls for him are they? |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 7, 2016 19:30:50 GMT -5
The bolded speaks so much volumes in regards to the storytelling of season 7. What's more, is I can't even really blame some of those fans who were wanting the show to tank without Elena because it's like you mentioned in the bolded. JP was pretty much hyped about Nina's leave. She talked about how now she could focus on the relationship of Damon and Stefan as the true 'love story' of the show and how some of the side characters could finally begin to get more screen time and focus now that things didn't have to focus so heavily on Elena. In essence, she pretty much blamed the character of Elena as the fault of these points in her writing, that Elena was preventing her from focusing on Defan or using other characters as much as she wanted and that with Elena gone, there would be so much more stories she was excited to tell. So if you're going to make a claim like that, be prepared for the massive wave of gloating coming your way from fans who see the opposite happen. Now that Elena was gone, why was the relationship of Damon and Stefan still pretty much... oh I don't know, the same as it always has been even with Elena present? Her being there or not literally changed nothing. Side characters that Elena was taking oh so much screen time from, still stayed pretty much in the background. Matt was as non existent as ever, Alaric still only showed up whenever it was convenient and still barely interacted with Damon, Bonnie suddenly had even less people to interact with and was stuck to glue to Damon for most of the season and suddenly her friendship with Caroline disappeared in the coffin with Elena. I gave sesaon 7 the benefit of the doubt, and now that I've seen how it all spanned out, I wish I stuck to my earlier guns and not bothered, but I kept thinking, there's no way things would be that bad. Since JP hyped it up that now that Elena was gone, all of the above would happen, but it didn't. And instead of getting stories with characters we cared about, she had more fun writing basically random nobodies that showed up and suddenly became so important and in the end all ending up dead and leaving and feeling like we've wasted screen time with them. I'd think it'd be a different story if JP didn't talk about Elena as the problem to explain away her faulty writing, so forgive me a part of me does find amusement in that, she should have just kept her mouth shut since now she made herself out to be an idiot since the problems she talked about, still persisted even without Elena being there. Agreed, and relying on Ians popularity to carry the show regardless of the garbage she writes for his character will not keep fans watching despite how pretty he is. The proof is there to be seen. Ian still has a massive fanbase, his facebook video he posted only yesterday has almost 2,000,000 hits/likes or whatever already. Where are those fans? they are certainly not watching him on TVD or voting in polls for him are they? Well since I follow a lot of Somerholics I can tell you. They stopped watching because of the things that Ian has said about DE and not wanting to deal with that situation anymore and as loyal Somerholics they decided to stop watching since he wasn't happy with what they were doing on the show. In their minds that meant they were supporting Ian. At least that is what I get out of the conversations that I have read. So he hurt the fanbase with all that whining to be honest, more than I think he even realizes. Add that to the Nina fans who left when she left the show and there goes a decent sized chunk of the once loyal audience. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 7, 2016 20:48:43 GMT -5
I get that because I probably follow quite a few people that you do and I have witnessed the drama associated with Ian's comments and I agree that the fallout from some of his comments regarding DE has split the fandom but never the less, he still retains a high amount of followers on all his social media accounts, much of which he gained during his TVD years. When I joined this fandom a few years back, Ian had approx 3.5 M followers on twitter. I have been around to watch that figure continue to grow despite the falling ratings on TVD. I have to question why? ISF? Charity? Eco campaigns? Animal protection? (I doubt it, just read the comments sections) Those numbers are not translating into viewership or online polling so it suggests to me that fans are not JUST seduced by his pretty face or if they are, they get to see it posted online and they are content to ogle him there rather than watch TVD. Julie Plec is under the misguided delusion that people will watch her show for the "pretty" regardless of the story she is telling but she is wrong. The "pretty" is available elsewhere as proven. If those 2M fans who view Ians Facebook page in 24hrs watched TVD, it would be sitting very pretty in the ratings right now and Ian would smash any poll or PCA etc etc that he was entered in. Maybe it's me that is missing the point? maybe JP gets that and recognises that Ian has a devoted fanbase worldwide regardless of the the drama that we see online on twitter. I think ultimately what we are seeing on twitter is a snapshot of the fandom that is severely diminished for several reasons over the years and it started with the NIAN split. There are a few diehard Somerholics, a few diehard nina fans, a few diehard DE fans, and a few diehard DE fans that straddle the lines, hence why we can't seem to win any meaningful polls anymore. The fandom is so fragmented now due to the various factions that it doesn't stand a chance. Ian marrying Nikki just added that extra line of divide that has killed the fandom which is just ridiculous. Ian turned against the DE fans because they insult his wife and he can't seem to separate reality from fiction any more than than he accuses his fans. I used to be a huge Ian fan but not anymore, but because I am able to separate fantasy and reality, It does not affect how I feel for Damon, even if Ian can't be bothered to defend his own character or protect his integrity for the sake of the story. I'm not sure why I still follow Ian since most of his posts are either preachy, advertising or promoting his Wifes ventures which is fine, but I miss the fan interaction he once had once upon a time. SM is nothing but self promotion now and that of his causes bu I miss the t it has become less personal over time which kinda takes the fun out of it IMO. I guess I miss the cast banter, the fan banter and the "Goodnight beautiful world" posts.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 22:32:54 GMT -5
I get that because I probably follow quite a few people that you do and I have witnessed the drama associated with Ian's comments and I agree that the fallout from some of his comments regarding DE has split the fandom but never the less, he still retains a high amount of followers on all his social media accounts, much of which he gained during his TVD years. When I joined this fandom a few years back, Ian had approx 3.5 M followers on twitter. I have been around to watch that figure continue to grow despite the falling ratings on TVD. I have to question why? ISF? Charity? Eco campaigns? Animal protection? (I doubt it, just read the comments sections) Those numbers are not translating into viewership or online polling so it suggests to me that fans are not JUST seduced by his pretty face or if they are, they get to see it posted online and they are content to ogle him there rather than watch TVD. Julie Plec is under the misguided delusion that people will watch her show for the "pretty" regardless of the story she is telling but she is wrong. The "pretty" is available elsewhere as proven. If those 2M fans who view Ians Facebook page in 24hrs watched TVD, it would be sitting very pretty in the ratings right now and Ian would smash any poll or PCA etc etc that he was entered in. Maybe it's me that is missing the point? maybe JP gets that and recognises that Ian has a devoted fanbase worldwide regardless of the the drama that we see online on twitter. I think ultimately what we are seeing on twitter is a snapshot of the fandom that is severely diminished for several reasons over the years and it started with the NIAN split. There are a few diehard Somerholics, a few diehard nina fans, a few diehard DE fans, and a few diehard DE fans that straddle the lines, hence why we can't seem to win any meaningful polls anymore. The fandom is so fragmented now due to the various factions that it doesn't stand a chance. Ian marrying Nikki just added that extra line of divide that has killed the fandom which is just ridiculous. Ian turned against the DE fans because they insult his wife and he can't seem to separate reality from fiction any more than than he accuses his fans. I used to be a huge Ian fan but not anymore, but because I am able to separate fantasy and reality, It does not affect how I feel for Damon, even if Ian can't be bothered to defend his own character or protect his integrity for the sake of the story. I'm not sure why I still follow Ian since most of his posts are either preachy, advertising or promoting his Wifes ventures which is fine, but I miss the fan interaction he once had once upon a time. SM is nothing but self promotion now and that of his causes bu I miss the t it has become less personal over time which kinda takes the fun out of it IMO. I guess I miss the cast banter, the fan banter and the "Goodnight beautiful world" posts. You bring up some good points, I never thought of it that way, taking into account of the number of massive fans he has on his social media sites and comparing it to the ratings, is not adding up. Like mentioned his fans would follow him in his current show. It's also interesting with what Doppel brought out with some loyal fans not watching in support of him if he's not happy with how things are going on the show with the whole DE situation. It makes a bit more sense now in understanding the decrease in ratings, among some other factors. But that tells us it's not just one group of fans leaving for one particular thing (like being turned off from all the Bamon talk). So it's like all these different factions leaving for different reasons. And again it makes more sense ratings wise since realistically it would have to be several groups of fans/factions leaving to affect the ratings that greatly. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 8, 2016 7:11:23 GMT -5
I get that because I probably follow quite a few people that you do and I have witnessed the drama associated with Ian's comments and I agree that the fallout from some of his comments regarding DE has split the fandom but never the less, he still retains a high amount of followers on all his social media accounts, much of which he gained during his TVD years. When I joined this fandom a few years back, Ian had approx 3.5 M followers on twitter. I have been around to watch that figure continue to grow despite the falling ratings on TVD. I have to question why? ISF? Charity? Eco campaigns? Animal protection? (I doubt it, just read the comments sections) Those numbers are not translating into viewership or online polling so it suggests to me that fans are not JUST seduced by his pretty face or if they are, they get to see it posted online and they are content to ogle him there rather than watch TVD. Julie Plec is under the misguided delusion that people will watch her show for the "pretty" regardless of the story she is telling but she is wrong. The "pretty" is available elsewhere as proven. If those 2M fans who view Ians Facebook page in 24hrs watched TVD, it would be sitting very pretty in the ratings right now and Ian would smash any poll or PCA etc etc that he was entered in. Maybe it's me that is missing the point? maybe JP gets that and recognises that Ian has a devoted fanbase worldwide regardless of the the drama that we see online on twitter. I think ultimately what we are seeing on twitter is a snapshot of the fandom that is severely diminished for several reasons over the years and it started with the NIAN split. There are a few diehard Somerholics, a few diehard nina fans, a few diehard DE fans, and a few diehard DE fans that straddle the lines, hence why we can't seem to win any meaningful polls anymore. The fandom is so fragmented now due to the various factions that it doesn't stand a chance. Ian marrying Nikki just added that extra line of divide that has killed the fandom which is just ridiculous. Ian turned against the DE fans because they insult his wife and he can't seem to separate reality from fiction any more than than he accuses his fans. I used to be a huge Ian fan but not anymore, but because I am able to separate fantasy and reality, It does not affect how I feel for Damon, even if Ian can't be bothered to defend his own character or protect his integrity for the sake of the story. I'm not sure why I still follow Ian since most of his posts are either preachy, advertising or promoting his Wifes ventures which is fine, but I miss the fan interaction he once had once upon a time. SM is nothing but self promotion now and that of his causes bu I miss the t it has become less personal over time which kinda takes the fun out of it IMO. I guess I miss the cast banter, the fan banter and the "Goodnight beautiful world" posts. You bring up some good points, I never thought of it that way, taking into account of the number of massive fans he has on his social media sites and comparing it to the ratings, is not adding up. Like mentioned his fans would follow him in his current show. It's also interesting with what Doppel brought out with some loyal fans not watching in support of him if he's not happy with how things are going on the show with the whole DE situation. It makes a bit more sense now in understanding the decrease in ratings, among some other factors. But that tells us it's not just one group of fans leaving for one particular thing (like being turned off from all the Bamon talk). So it's like all these different factions leaving for different reasons. And again it makes more sense ratings wise since realistically it would have to be several groups of fans/factions leaving to affect the ratings that greatly. But if you ask Stelenas and even Bamons they will tell you its because of DE or because they aren't getting what they want which makes no sense since the ratings were high all the while we were anticipating DE happening and it's been proven time and again that the DE fanbase is by far the largest of all of them. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 8, 2016 7:17:53 GMT -5
I get that because I probably follow quite a few people that you do and I have witnessed the drama associated with Ian's comments and I agree that the fallout from some of his comments regarding DE has split the fandom but never the less, he still retains a high amount of followers on all his social media accounts, much of which he gained during his TVD years. When I joined this fandom a few years back, Ian had approx 3.5 M followers on twitter. I have been around to watch that figure continue to grow despite the falling ratings on TVD. I have to question why? ISF? Charity? Eco campaigns? Animal protection? (I doubt it, just read the comments sections) Those numbers are not translating into viewership or online polling so it suggests to me that fans are not JUST seduced by his pretty face or if they are, they get to see it posted online and they are content to ogle him there rather than watch TVD. Julie Plec is under the misguided delusion that people will watch her show for the "pretty" regardless of the story she is telling but she is wrong. The "pretty" is available elsewhere as proven. If those 2M fans who view Ians Facebook page in 24hrs watched TVD, it would be sitting very pretty in the ratings right now and Ian would smash any poll or PCA etc etc that he was entered in. Maybe it's me that is missing the point? maybe JP gets that and recognises that Ian has a devoted fanbase worldwide regardless of the the drama that we see online on twitter. I think ultimately what we are seeing on twitter is a snapshot of the fandom that is severely diminished for several reasons over the years and it started with the NIAN split. There are a few diehard Somerholics, a few diehard nina fans, a few diehard DE fans, and a few diehard DE fans that straddle the lines, hence why we can't seem to win any meaningful polls anymore. The fandom is so fragmented now due to the various factions that it doesn't stand a chance. Ian marrying Nikki just added that extra line of divide that has killed the fandom which is just ridiculous. Ian turned against the DE fans because they insult his wife and he can't seem to separate reality from fiction any more than than he accuses his fans. I used to be a huge Ian fan but not anymore, but because I am able to separate fantasy and reality, It does not affect how I feel for Damon, even if Ian can't be bothered to defend his own character or protect his integrity for the sake of the story. I'm not sure why I still follow Ian since most of his posts are either preachy, advertising or promoting his Wifes ventures which is fine, but I miss the fan interaction he once had once upon a time. SM is nothing but self promotion now and that of his causes bu I miss the t it has become less personal over time which kinda takes the fun out of it IMO. I guess I miss the cast banter, the fan banter and the "Goodnight beautiful world" posts.I feel the EXACT same way about his interactions lately. I have nothing against Nikki at all, but he seems to have taken it upon himself to lump the entire DE fanbase into one and decided he doesn't want to make us happy anymore by being friendly toward us and that isn't any more fair than what the people who DID insult his wife have done. But one of the things that made Ian unique among actors was how he used to be much more personally involved and seemed to care about his fans. Now that seems to be all but gone, unless you support BD I suppose and God knows why he decided to go THAT way with his thought processes. It's the worst idea ever for the show. Like you said most of what he posts is self promotion now of his causes or his wife's stuff, which as much as he has helped me learn about being more aware of the environmental stuff (which I do appreciate and applaud him for) most of what he posts now seem like advertisements to get people to buy his and her stuff. Not very fan friendly in my opinion. His social media reach is very impressive. Others could learn from what he's done there, but he needs to work with it a whole lot better, keep making it personal, because the majority are FANS, not activists, and he needs to keep it interesting to us. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 8, 2016 7:30:17 GMT -5
This would make sense if all the other characters were angels but they are not. They are judging from plane higher than they deserve and they put themselves on a pedestal that they are not deserving of. These people are written with zero self awareness which is nothing new for Stefan, however in S7 this has all been ramped up ten-fold this season and has affected pretty much all of them. Even Enzo has the cheek to give Damon crap after everything he did and the part he played. The problem i'm having with your theory and reasoning is that it only applies to Damon. Not Klaus, or Stefan, or Enzo who are all equally as guilty as Damon at wreaking pain and misery on the gang. Not because I think Stefan is perfect BUT they got to know good stefan first that his darkness is a kin to seeing a loved one battle addiction. You know the old them is still there you hope for it so much. vs Damon they knew as a villain first. So for damon they saw more evil first hand and never knew good damon first. The only one who did was Stefan but again he got burnt too much Enzo I agree with you completely. Klaus the Mystic falls guys normally look at as a villain and hatred BUT I agree they should. I was not counting Enzo as so far this season he's been bumped screen time wise to pop-up character. and Klaus is in another show. I was just going by main characters. As for the others they all do bad things yes. But some do less bad than others. Like Caroline has done less evil than either brother I see her + Bonnie as the closet we have to very good. Stefan does go more grey. Sadly though Damon in the eyes of the characters has done so much wrong BUT that's good as he will get to be fully redeemed in everyone's eyes. Hell he already is starting too. Look at season 1 stefan. Only wants elena and wants Damon gone. Then look at season 6. He yells at elena for erasing damon from her and shows he cares. Redemption is a two way street. People are trusting Damon more and more and they are thinking of him differently BUT just like Damon has years of wrong to make up for, they have to slowly accept it. They are it's just not instant which is good. I find watching people now slowly learn to accept him as interesting as him earning it. He had like 3-4 seasons to learn to change the others need time to change their minds too. ------ Side note (not to you but to all) I like to look at all parts and over think things too. I just don't share it as much with TVD fanbase. I do it with star wars , comics , wrestling , tv shows , movies ect.... BUT I stopped sharing it with TVD "fanbase" as no offence I find the fanbase to be toxic than other fanbases as most look to make their ship work and curse you out for liking another in really bad ways. I've seen actors gets death threats from fans who "love the show" But the worst to me. I saw a young girl in my family now she's old enough, I let her watch my season 1 dvd and posted on twitter that she liked bonnie the witch. She has since deleted her twitter and refuses to watch any more. Why? she had nothing but "You like bonnie? go ****ing die" messages that a) It's a show **** you b) She can like anyone she wants. c) never threaten real people. But her harassment was way to much. People blaming her for Elena, People who just dont like Bonnie , Racists as the N word was used a lot. This board is the ONLY fanbase i now use for the TVD. I Don't even talk about to anyone irl anymore as the fanbase is no offence to anyone here THE WORST I have seen. Again though not saying this board as I like coming here it's just tainted when you look at the whole more. I just had to get that rant out the way as I honestly just considered selling my dvds of each season and my blurays as I didn't want to be associated with it. I am going to go back and comment on the bolded. It appears to me that you have a Stefan bias from what you say here and that's OK, but as we are coming from different angles in this conversation, it seems that brings us to an impasse because you seem unwilling to agree that Stefan has done as many bad things as Damon and probably deserves just as much suspicion and/or condemnation as Damon which is really the entire point we've been trying to make. Why Damon and not the rest of them? Your point about a family member doesn't make any sense to me. First of all, Stefan is nobody's family member but Damon's, another reason he should be the one who forgives Damon for the millionth time and Damon has already forgiven Stefan for everything so that isn't even necessary from his side. At best Stefan is the friend who never told you he was a murderer for years, killed an entire town of people, but came to YOUR town PRETENDING to be a hero, because THAT is what Stefan did. He lied to all of them about himself, especially in the beginning and that LIE doesn't make him a good guy. It makes him a LIAR pretending to be a good guy. If that happened to me in real life I would shun him so quick it would make his head spin. In contrast, Damon did NOT lie about what he was and who he was. He owned the fact that he had done bad things, which in my book, makes him the honest one, sometimes brutally so. But you appear to have drank the Stefan koolaid and like I said, that's OK, the show actually seduces us to do that, but I look at it from what I see as the truth and NOT what I am told by the narrative. I am not fooled by Stefan's lies or the ignorance of the other characters who have been, either. And this is just about Stefan alone. There are examples, many given of behavior that the other characters have done which was NOT good behavior. Yet it was glossed over like nothing, while Damon is put under the microscope for every action and however slight, condemned for it. It's just him that this happens to, and part of that is because of the set up and who set him up? Stefan! Stefan told everyone he was a bad guy. He told everyone to fear him. He told everyone he could not be saved and he still does it! Damon didn't stand a chance from the moment he walked into town because of Stefan. Only Elena actually took a second look and realized what Stefan was telling her was not the truth and that's a big reason why SE failed and DE became a reality. She realized (and yes the narrative told us this too) that he did good things but he did them out of sight. He didn't do them to get rewarded or praised, unlike his brother who puffs his chest up about being a hero, who took the credit for many of the things Damon actually did to save the town, while Damon stayed out of the limelight. Who is the hero here? I ask you to really take a better look at what the story reveals to us. Elena figured it out, which is why she deserves the diamond in the rough that Damon is. At best Stefan is a charlatan and the worst kind, the kind who would stab his own brother in the back and take credit for his good actions while consistently burying him for anything bad he ever does. On top of that, he treats him like complete dirt, insults him, condemns him. You see it in Damon's face, the hope fade away when his brother tells him he's bad once again. It's damn heartbreaking to see how much Damon wants his brother's forgiveness and love and to see it be withheld from him, over and over again. I absolutely cannot stand Stefan, not one bit, because for me, pretending to be something you aren't is the worst thing a person can ever do. The real Stefan is the murderer pretending to be the hero who has a heart of unforgiveness for his brother to the point that he is abusive toward him every chance he gets. The real Stefan is not a lot different than his father. |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 8, 2016 10:47:57 GMT -5
It's not a " a Stefan bias" It's a fact they met "good stefan" first. People mostly hate change. They first impressions matter and they do. Once people make up their minds on someone in can be hard to change it. Knowing Stefan as good and Damon as bad first the characters would logically find it hard to change their views.
Has Stefan done evil? YES I keep saying he done many bad things. No one should argue that. My point is people make up their minds on someone fast. I'm looking at it as if they are real. It's not bias as I have said i prefer Damon to stefan. I just know it's hard for people to get rid of reputations.
To the characters Stefan is the friend who did wrong. Like in real life a friend who one day breaks law. BUT damon they met evil. He is like an ex-con going straight at this point. People know him as the evil one and it can be hard for them to not.
It's not fair, Neither brother is "the good" or "the bad" one but it is realistic for them to stick to what they expect. People love their status Quo. It's why if the bus late they complain, if it rains in summer, if they burn toast.
People are misunderstanding me. I don't think the sun shines out of Stefan. I don't think Damon is the evillest person ever. I just think people want normality to drift back to. I know i freak out if my day is disrupted slightly or when things change. So i just feel the characters are reacting closer to what they would if the show was real.
I'm sorry if people are offended by it or think I am putting stefan as some kind of holy saint. I am just pointing myself in their shoes.
As for my comments earlier on fans I think Doppelgänger nailed it. I think this show is worse tha others fan wise as it pits fans against themselves so much that it's has become "us vs them" so much. I mean it's a CW teen show , It's not even the best on the network (flash) so instead of enjoying it and loving all fans. It becomes the "us vs them" that imo hurts a fanbase more than other fanbases. Hence i come here as it's a little "fairer" even if not 100% equal.
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 8, 2016 10:49:58 GMT -5
Yes, I agree and seeing it all laid out like that Doppelganger just makes it clearer.
I don't accept the notion that Damon has years of misery to make up for and that first impressions are what are driving this narrative. Damon has done more than enough to warrant some acceptance, respect and credit and the fact that Elena, Jeremy, Liz, Alaric and Bonnie managed to do that despite everything he did just highlights how petty Stefan is and how vapid Caroline is. What makes it worse are these two people (aside from Elena) have arguably benefited the most from Damon's good deeds. It really is bad writing and so therefore it circles back the original point that was being made.....................It makes no sense and for fans to be invested the story and character reactions need to be consistent and believable.
The problem as far as I can see is that as a character, Damon can stand alone, he is interesting and layered enough to attract the audience and Stefan just isn't. The writers struggle with him because they absolutely refuse to see him as anything other than a hero and a victim of circumstance. His actions are justified and suppported in the narrative and excuses and get out of Jail free cards are handed to him on a regular basis. Even his ripperness (the only interesting thing about him) has been retconned as a genetic flaw and not a character flaw. Boring.
The writers need to concentrate on just writing Stefan independently of Damon with layers and have the guts to dirty him up a bit, instead of using Damon to prop him up by dragging him down.
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 8, 2016 11:32:15 GMT -5
Yes, I agree and seeing it all laid out like that Doppelganger just makes it clearer. I don't accept the notion that Damon has years of misery to make up for and that first impressions are what are driving this narrative. Damon has done more than enough to warrant some acceptance, respect and credit and the fact that Elena, Jeremy, Liz, Alaric and Bonnie managed to do that despite everything he did just highlights how petty Stefan is and how vapid Caroline is. What makes it worse are these two people (aside from Elena) have arguably benefited the most from Damon's good deeds. It really is bad writing and so therefore it circles back the original point that was being made.....................It makes no sense and for fans to be invested the story and character reactions need to be consistent and believable. The problem as far as I can see is that as a character, Damon can stand alone, he is interesting and layered enough to attract the audience and Stefan just isn't. The writers struggle with him because they absolutely refuse to see him as anything other than a hero and a victim of circumstance. His actions are justified and suppported in the narrative and excuses and get out of Jail free cards are handed to him on a regular basis. Even his ripperness (the only interesting thing about him) has been retconned as a genetic flaw and not a character flaw. Boring. The writers need to concentrate on just writing Stefan independently of Damon with layers and have the guts to dirty him up a bit, instead of using Damon to prop him up by dragging him down. I agree to a degree. To me it's Superman + Batman. let me explain. To me Stefan is basically "Superman" of TVD. What I mean by that is reading comics Superman is a good character that most say is too perfect or full of himself. However Superman with Batman = Interesting. Superman with Supergirl = Interesting. But superman on his own can be dull. But there is a certain light about him and his struggles are still interesting enough but I like them anyway. Damon is batman. He uses fear at times , he comes from darkness. He can have amazing plans. Most prefer him as his tortured character can be on his own and you enjoy it. On the surface he might not seem as good as Superman and the rest of the league do question him a lot but he is a great character I love too. Not saying exactly the same BUT I not made a nerdy comparison for a while lol one reason I say not the same as IMO Batman in comics is god-modded too much as his plans can border on the silly side like knowing deadshot the man who never misses would miss! **** that. As luckily Damon is more flawed than batman and Stefan more flawed than superman which is good. But my point is Stefan the character is better with others. Some are like that. Look at friends. Great show. Spin off with just joey = terrible. BUT Joey ion friends was fantastic. |
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