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Post by vampirelust on Jul 5, 2016 14:32:24 GMT -5
Ha ha Valerie. You just reminded me of yet another character shoe-horned in to retcon the past and prop him up. You are absolutely right about his relationship with Val and how he got away with the trashy way he treated her and Caroline in the end.
Talking of the trash talking people do about Damon, I hated how Caroline gets to call Damon a cockroach that always survives like WTF??? and the fact that Stefan never defends him just annoys the heck out of me. In the finale Caroline also said in her diary voice over to Elena that Damon did the right thing for once.......I mean HELLO!!! Does Caroline live in an AU? Bonnie survived Kai's attack because Damon saved her, Stefan is alive because Damon rescued him from the other side, her Mom got to die a dignified human death because Damon had the fortitude and guts to reverse the damage Caroline caused by feeding her vampire blood. Those are all very recent examples of what Damon has done thafor these people at his own expense so there is no excuse for the derogatory name calling that goes on.
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 5, 2016 15:17:31 GMT -5
Hmmm...good point. Yes I do love badass Damon but I think there are ways of having him be good and still keep his edge without turning him into a lapdog. Personally I never had a problem with 'bad' Damon. But the characters on this show have had a problem with it. Now they seem like they are crying wolf all the time and there's no wolf to be found. It's just out of step with the other side of what JP is trying to create which is Damon learning that he is capable of being good and not just for one person because he loves her but for lots of people. I think I already knew that back when he saved Caroline from Tyler's bite and on and on, going by the number of times he saved people that he didn't have to save, and who didn't even like him at the time, but he never realized it himself and I'd like him to, and I'd also like Caroline and Stefan to realize it as well. For all the bad Damon did, he has done a lot of good, too. It gets frustrating watching him do all this stuff for people and being treated like crap anyway.Season 7 was horrendous in this regard. There's literally no sense of growth or any ounce of common sense with these characters. Like the scene Doppel mentioned with Stefan/Damon in the show. The characters talk bad about Damon without him having to do any of the bad. I just find the characters surrounding him to be massive idiots and the writing to be such an insult to my intelligence that I dreaded having to come back and watch this after watching other shows with far superior writing that was actually entertaining to watch and not a massive headache and chore. Also I wouldn't necessarily say we on this board are in the minority vs a 'big section of Damon fans' who think otherwise. The ratings for this season are surprisingly low and the second half of the season undergoes a gradual decline in the ratings that it could not recover from. The ratings speak more volumes than hypotheticals. To be fair the raitings do not go against what I what I said I mean a main character left + it changed slot on tv. They always effect the rantings. I mean look at the average raitings for each season The highest was season 1! If we use the the ratings = What works then : No Katherine (cameo at end Doesnt really count) No werewolves , Caroline as Human , Stefan and Elena together , Damon as the villain , No Originals and more. = What most people want. But with the rise of DVR + Netflix most shows ratings have gone down. I mean the show's average has not gone above a 3 during most of the best stories. It goes down each year for various reasons it's not just 1 big one. Though if you do use raiting for what I had said then the less evil damon becomes the less viewers it gets  However I am joking there as like I said there is too many factors.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 18:03:39 GMT -5
Season 7 was horrendous in this regard. There's literally no sense of growth or any ounce of common sense with these characters. Like the scene Doppel mentioned with Stefan/Damon in the show. The characters talk bad about Damon without him having to do any of the bad. I just find the characters surrounding him to be massive idiots and the writing to be such an insult to my intelligence that I dreaded having to come back and watch this after watching other shows with far superior writing that was actually entertaining to watch and not a massive headache and chore. Also I wouldn't necessarily say we on this board are in the minority vs a 'big section of Damon fans' who think otherwise. The ratings for this season are surprisingly low and the second half of the season undergoes a gradual decline in the ratings that it could not recover from. The ratings speak more volumes than hypotheticals. To be fair the raitings do not go against what I what I said I mean a main character left + it changed slot on tv. They always effect the rantings. I mean look at the average raitings for each season The highest was season 1! If we use the the ratings = What works then : No Katherine (cameo at end Doesnt really count) No werewolves , Caroline as Human , Stefan and Elena together , Damon as the villain , No Originals and more. = What most people want. But with the rise of DVR + Netflix most shows ratings have gone down. I mean the show's average has not gone above a 3 during most of the best stories. It goes down each year for various reasons it's not just 1 big one. Though if you do use raiting for what I had said then the less evil damon becomes the less viewers it gets However I am joking there as like I said there is too many factors. Season 1 had the highest ratings, of course. The subject is about season 7 so those are the numbers I'm using. In the grand scheme of things the season started off relatively fine but as it goes on the ratings take a dip, and the change from the station just goes to show how many fans didn't care to keep up with the show after the hiatus and switch over. The CW advertised the new time slop frequently during commercial breaks and for those who don't watch commercials, an interested fan could simply google if they wanted to find out. Season 7 sports the worst ratings in TVD history. You mentioned you were joking in that last statement so I won't argue it seriously. But I will say I highly doubt any true Damon fan would smile or be happy about Damon's treatment of his character during the midst of the season. In general I don't see anyone being happy or pleased about a favorite character of theirs getting blamed for something that doesn't even take place on screen. That's the main point. We're Damon fans for a reason, we happen to like the dark parts of him you know lol. If you read through the examples of the posters in this thread, then you should know why we're upset and it shouldn't be so confusing. We're giving you actual examples from the show with the horrid writing in favor of other characters (mainly Stefan). When characters got on to Damon for the Jeremy neck snap, that was something that Damon actually did on the show. When he fed Elena his blood, oh another thing he actually did. In season 7, Damon gets blamed and called things for things he didn't even do or weren't even his fault. JP now literally has characters make up stuff, like calling him a self serving narcissist, despite him doing the opposite. (Cause a self serving narcissist would totally try to transfer the burden of painful mark, with an expiration date, and a life on the run to themselves. Did that definition get changed or am I just that crazy?). In short, the characters are in an entirely different universe and I can gladly provide examples. I, along with others on this board are chock full of them lol. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 5, 2016 21:07:06 GMT -5
You all are depressing me...LOL Because sadly it is all true and it has never changed in the entire series so if that continues to hold true, the end game will be all about Stefan getting what the hero deserves, too, and Damon left empty handed and we'll probably all be standing there going, "What the hell was that?" I can't help but be reminded of this: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 6, 2016 14:04:11 GMT -5
To be fair the raitings do not go against what I what I said I mean a main character left + it changed slot on tv. They always effect the rantings. I mean look at the average raitings for each season The highest was season 1! If we use the the ratings = What works then : No Katherine (cameo at end Doesnt really count) No werewolves , Caroline as Human , Stefan and Elena together , Damon as the villain , No Originals and more. = What most people want. But with the rise of DVR + Netflix most shows ratings have gone down. I mean the show's average has not gone above a 3 during most of the best stories. It goes down each year for various reasons it's not just 1 big one. Though if you do use raiting for what I had said then the less evil damon becomes the less viewers it gets However I am joking there as like I said there is too many factors. Season 1 had the highest ratings, of course. The subject is about season 7 so those are the numbers I'm using. In the grand scheme of things the season started off relatively fine but as it goes on the ratings take a dip, and the change from the station just goes to show how many fans didn't care to keep up with the show after the hiatus and switch over. The CW advertised the new time slop frequently during commercial breaks and for those who don't watch commercials, an interested fan could simply google if they wanted to find out. Season 7 sports the worst ratings in TVD history. You mentioned you were joking in that last statement so I won't argue it seriously. But I will say I highly doubt any true Damon fan would smile or be happy about Damon's treatment of his character during the midst of the season. In general I don't see anyone being happy or pleased about a favorite character of theirs getting blamed for something that doesn't even take place on screen. That's the main point. We're Damon fans for a reason, we happen to like the dark parts of him you know lol. If you read through the examples of the posters in this thread, then you should know why we're upset and it shouldn't be so confusing. We're giving you actual examples from the show with the horrid writing in favor of other characters (mainly Stefan). When characters got on to Damon for the Jeremy neck snap, that was something that Damon actually did on the show. When he fed Elena his blood, oh another thing he actually did. In season 7, Damon gets blamed and called things for things he didn't even do or weren't even his fault. JP now literally has characters make up stuff, like calling him a self serving narcissist, despite him doing the opposite. (Cause a self serving narcissist would totally try to transfer the burden of painful mark, with an expiration date, and a life on the run to themselves. Did that definition get changed or am I just that crazy?). In short, the characters are in an entirely different universe and I can gladly provide examples. I, along with others on this board are chock full of them lol. 1) I know they advertised it BUT there is a reason people hate day changes. It always effects a show. More so if it's friday en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot and removing a cast member. I'm not saying "the writing is perfection" I'm saying there are more factors than just the writing. A combo of everything = drop 2) I also agree he is been blamed for stuff he didn't do. However I am saying it's the best middle ground. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. It might not be the same people but it would be bigger either way. By doing this people can say "look how good he is" and "He's the outsider" and BOTH will be right. I am a Damon fan like I've said my two favourites are him and Katherine. I like how Damon is treated because I understand it and I like it as like said it keeps him good while still maining his badboy/outsider vibe. I don't want the others to ever accept him 100% or to only ever think the best as that means he's no longer the character I liked. Like charmed. Cole was **** by the end as they stripped away every part of him I liked. 3) Like i said in universe it makes sense as 100+ years of evil vs like 1 or 2 years of good = People would doubt him. If in RL you knew someone who was nothing but an asshole for 5 years and 1 week hes nice you wont suddenly forget the bad. You'd be suspicious (or most would) I mean based on like you said examples in the show. Damon literally told his brother he wanted to ruin his life and was it cause he was turned? no it was cause Katherine liked him too. THAT is why "self serving narcissist" would get thrown around. He kinda has a history lol There are loads of examples of him doing bad too. People don't forget things like that. 4) I'm not ignoring, I understand your point. I am Just saying I understand why it's like this. So just cause I don't agree does not mean I am ignoring. There is a difference. I am just expressing my views on the subject |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 6, 2016 14:11:08 GMT -5
You all are depressing me...LOL Because sadly it is all true and it has never changed in the entire series so if that continues to hold true, the end game will be all about Stefan getting what the hero deserves, too, and Damon left empty handed and we'll probably all be standing there going, "What the hell was that?" I can't help but be reminded of this: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein Endgame What I expect - Stefan with Caroline , Elena with Damon. What I want : Jeremy with Bonnie (that is just personal hope lol) and Tyler will leave only to die 2 weeks later on the Originals LOL and Matt will get a spin off CSI:Mystic falls, Caroline + Enzo or Caroline + Klaus. Stefan and a resurrected Katherine. Damon + Elena (Like i said loved the couple and build up i just hated them together as sirebond , doppelgänger draw *rip tom* and lack of chemistry post rl break up though ironically i felt the actors had chemistry again right before she was boxed) LOL most my wants wont happen |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 15:55:59 GMT -5
Season 1 had the highest ratings, of course. The subject is about season 7 so those are the numbers I'm using. In the grand scheme of things the season started off relatively fine but as it goes on the ratings take a dip, and the change from the station just goes to show how many fans didn't care to keep up with the show after the hiatus and switch over. The CW advertised the new time slop frequently during commercial breaks and for those who don't watch commercials, an interested fan could simply google if they wanted to find out. Season 7 sports the worst ratings in TVD history. You mentioned you were joking in that last statement so I won't argue it seriously. But I will say I highly doubt any true Damon fan would smile or be happy about Damon's treatment of his character during the midst of the season. In general I don't see anyone being happy or pleased about a favorite character of theirs getting blamed for something that doesn't even take place on screen. That's the main point. We're Damon fans for a reason, we happen to like the dark parts of him you know lol. If you read through the examples of the posters in this thread, then you should know why we're upset and it shouldn't be so confusing. We're giving you actual examples from the show with the horrid writing in favor of other characters (mainly Stefan). When characters got on to Damon for the Jeremy neck snap, that was something that Damon actually did on the show. When he fed Elena his blood, oh another thing he actually did. In season 7, Damon gets blamed and called things for things he didn't even do or weren't even his fault. JP now literally has characters make up stuff, like calling him a self serving narcissist, despite him doing the opposite. (Cause a self serving narcissist would totally try to transfer the burden of painful mark, with an expiration date, and a life on the run to themselves. Did that definition get changed or am I just that crazy?). In short, the characters are in an entirely different universe and I can gladly provide examples. I, along with others on this board are chock full of them lol. 1) I know they advertised it BUT there is a reason people hate day changes. It always effects a show. More so if it's friday en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot and removing a cast member. I'm not saying "the writing is perfection" I'm saying there are more factors than just the writing. A combo of everything = drop 2) I also agree he is been blamed for stuff he didn't do. However I am saying it's the best middle ground. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. It might not be the same people but it would be bigger either way. By doing this people can say "look how good he is" and "He's the outsider" and BOTH will be right. I am a Damon fan like I've said my two favourites are him and Katherine. I like how Damon is treated because I understand it and I like it as like said it keeps him good while still maining his badboy/outsider vibe. I don't want the others to ever accept him 100% or to only ever think the best as that means he's no longer the character I liked. Like charmed. Cole was **** by the end as they stripped away every part of him I liked. 3) Like i said in universe it makes sense as 100+ years of evil vs like 1 or 2 years of good = People would doubt him. If in RL you knew someone who was nothing but an asshole for 5 years and 1 week hes nice you wont suddenly forget the bad. You'd be suspicious (or most would) I mean based on like you said examples in the show. Damon literally told his brother he wanted to ruin his life and was it cause he was turned? no it was cause Katherine liked him too. THAT is why "self serving narcissist" would get thrown around. He kinda has a history lol There are loads of examples of him doing bad too. People don't forget things like that. 4) I'm not ignoring, I understand your point. I am Just saying I understand why it's like this. So just cause I don't agree does not mean I am ignoring. There is a difference. I am just expressing my views on the subject 1. Another interesting thing about the day change that I forgot to point out, is how TVD had the same time slot for years only to change halfway through season 7. In the midst of the season I should emphasize, it'd be one thing if the time slot was set before the season even started, but it changed halfway through season 7. That seems very telling to me as far as the reception of season 7. It's the first season that it got moved to the 'death slot' as people dub it. You know seeing Elena's leave being acknowledged as one of the factors (since writing and plot lines for the other characters are also in effect of course) for the ratings being low... yep don't need convincing of that lol. I remember people parading Nina leaving and how 'whiny and annoying' Elena would no longer be part of the show and things would get interesting again cause everything wouldn't revolve around Elena and her leave totally wouldn't affect the ratings or anything, no one cares about that character. So it's nice seeing Elena get that acknowledgement now. I personally felt the show should have ended back in season 6 when they had knowledge of Nina's leave before the start of season 6. They could have done a proper ending when Nina was still in contract and could have brought all the characters back, like Tyler and Jeremy since they did anyways, to get a proper ending for season 6. Either way, whatever factors in combination have caused the drop in ratings (loss of a main character, new two slot, the writing, the plots, Damon's characterization etc.) the truth of the matter is that the ratings are ridiculously low no matter how you look at it. 2. Oh wait so you're aware of it too? Damon getting blamed for things he didn't do? Cool. I'm not crazy then lol. I don't know it sounds ridiculous on paper to me. Characters should take blame for actual actions they did, not some made up crap that the viewer never sees take place. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. I'm confused about these 'people' you mention. A lot of us on this board are involved in various social media sites in addition to this one and we keep up with the fandom who are more than the casual viewers. We write and analyze meta regarding Damon's character all the time, whenever he did something, like force feeding Elena his blood when she decided to take her chances on a flimsy potion that might not have even brought her back. So was it just Damon being 'his evil self' or was it about her safety? We analyze things on a deeper scale than just black and white and those of us here again have a pretty good idea of how the 'fandom' thinks as we're constantly involved in it. Not trying to be snarky, but it's hard to take an empty statement of, 'People will hate it!' without any proof whereas the threads we talk in have constant opinions of Damon fans all over social media sites, actual tweets to the executive producer of the show where she answers and addresses concerns that Damon and Delena fans had all season with where she was even heading with Damon this season. Back in season 2, the Jeremy neck snap happened, were the writers scared of 'resetting his character development' then? It was season 2 of a show still in progress. It's season 7 and Damon's character has went through amazing character development, randomly making up some BS to retcon it, yeah long time fans would hate that. As it makes no sense and I've grown tired of TVD's inconsistent writing. And that's just with Damon's character. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. You seem to continually bring up this point as if the complaint is about everyone treating Damon mean and we can't handle it. I don't need Caroline to make flirty eyes at Damon or for Stefan to playfully tackle Damon to the ground. It's not about people just treating him nice and good. It's just common sense to blame a character for actions they actually did. If Damon actually did the things they characters were blowing up at him about or it was actually his fault that things went to crap, I wouldn't care lol. But this has nothing to do with maintaining a badass/outsider vibe as I don't see Enzo getting this treatment. So We might have to agree to disagree on this point as I feel like I'm just repeating myself each post and that the actual examples I've given from the show are kind of just being glossed over, while I'm mainly fighting opinions without any canon evidence to back up claims and it's getting really tiresome arguing this. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 6, 2016 16:00:42 GMT -5
chrizakathemole, I understand your point about not wanting Damon to be "good" or seen as "good" all the time for fear of it ruining the essence of Damon and I agree with that, I certainly do not want to see Damon evolve into Stefan#2. However, there is a line that gets crossed many times on this show in the writing that shows a complete disrespect for the character all to service another (Stefan mainly). Damon is without doubt the most popular character on the show, he is the breakout star and people care what happens to him so they need to tell his story properly and stop using him as a plot device to service Stefan's arc and character to his detriment. As Anbu mentioned, every mistake Damon makes is highlighted and talked about in the show and the consequences of those mistakes are played out and dissected in technicolor. Other characters are used to hammer the points home ad nauseum while other characters mistakes are just whitewashed and glossed over---see the Steroline no-humanity arc, the ripper arc, Carolines arc with Liz. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that other characters get to be bad, but the show NEVER goes the whole way with them and usually frames characters like Stefan and Caroline as being righteous. I like Damon being bad, but his actions much of the time this season were framed as being cowardice, selfish and childish by the writing even though actually IRL his actions could be viewed very differently. For example.. Who would really forgive their mother for doing what Lily did? answer, not many people however Damon was made out to be WRONG for that. For me it was a normal thing for Damon to want to protect Elena's coffin, but apparently according to Lily that was only putting Elena in more danger...why?, What? It was her who stole the damn thing and put Elena in there in the first place...such nonsense writing. Damon wants to get revenge on Lily for what she did in the present and that was framed as terrible self serving thing, but Stefan getting revenge on Julian for something that happened 150 yrs ago was totally justified by the writing. Stefan starting a war with the heretics by trying to bomb them all was forgiven by Lily quickly because Stefan wrote some sentimental garbage in his diary, but Damon is held to account for his actions indefinitely. Enzo literally unleashes havoc on the gang, yet Bonnie and the gang forgive all that while Damon is lambasted for reacting to a chain of events that he did not start. I'm going to stop now because it just makes me frustrated but believe me I could go on but just this last point, I still want Damon to have an edge and be controversial...I like that about him always have, but the main difference for me between now and the Damon from s1/S2 is that back then people had the sense to be genuinely scared of him, now they just say what the hell they want to him. They do not respect him at all so I think he needs to start kicking ass and taking names and stop getting the crap beaten out of him so often because he is neither badass or good right now.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 6, 2016 18:47:25 GMT -5
1) I know they advertised it BUT there is a reason people hate day changes. It always effects a show. More so if it's friday en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot and removing a cast member. I'm not saying "the writing is perfection" I'm saying there are more factors than just the writing. A combo of everything = drop 2) I also agree he is been blamed for stuff he didn't do. However I am saying it's the best middle ground. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. It might not be the same people but it would be bigger either way. By doing this people can say "look how good he is" and "He's the outsider" and BOTH will be right. I am a Damon fan like I've said my two favourites are him and Katherine. I like how Damon is treated because I understand it and I like it as like said it keeps him good while still maining his badboy/outsider vibe. I don't want the others to ever accept him 100% or to only ever think the best as that means he's no longer the character I liked. Like charmed. Cole was **** by the end as they stripped away every part of him I liked. 3) Like i said in universe it makes sense as 100+ years of evil vs like 1 or 2 years of good = People would doubt him. If in RL you knew someone who was nothing but an asshole for 5 years and 1 week hes nice you wont suddenly forget the bad. You'd be suspicious (or most would) I mean based on like you said examples in the show. Damon literally told his brother he wanted to ruin his life and was it cause he was turned? no it was cause Katherine liked him too. THAT is why "self serving narcissist" would get thrown around. He kinda has a history lol There are loads of examples of him doing bad too. People don't forget things like that. 4) I'm not ignoring, I understand your point. I am Just saying I understand why it's like this. So just cause I don't agree does not mean I am ignoring. There is a difference. I am just expressing my views on the subject 1. Another interesting thing about the day change that I forgot to point out, is how TVD had the same time slot for years only to change halfway through season 7. In the midst of the season I should emphasize, it'd be one thing if the time slot was set before the season even started, but it changed halfway through season 7. That seems very telling to me as far as the reception of season 7. It's the first season that it got moved to the 'death slot' as people dub it. You know seeing Elena's leave being acknowledged as one of the factors (since writing and plot lines for the other characters are also in effect of course) for the ratings being low... yep don't need convincing of that lol. I remember people parading Nina leaving and how 'whiny and annoying' Elena would no longer be part of the show and things would get interesting again cause everything wouldn't revolve around Elena and her leave totally wouldn't affect the ratings or anything, no one cares about that character. So it's nice seeing Elena get that acknowledgement now. I personally felt the show should have ended back in season 6 when they had knowledge of Nina's leave before the start of season 6. They could have done a proper ending when Nina was still in contract and could have brought all the characters back, like Tyler and Jeremy since they did anyways, to get a proper ending for season 6. Either way, whatever factors in combination have caused the drop in ratings (loss of a main character, new two slot, the writing, the plots, Damon's characterization etc.) the truth of the matter is that the ratings are ridiculously low no matter how you look at it. 2. Oh wait so you're aware of it too? Damon getting blamed for things he didn't do? Cool. I'm not crazy then lol. I don't know it sounds ridiculous on paper to me. Characters should take blame for actual actions they did, not some made up crap that the viewer never sees take place. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. I'm confused about these 'people' you mention. A lot of us on this board are involved in various social media sites in addition to this one and we keep up with the fandom who are more than the casual viewers. We write and analyze meta regarding Damon's character all the time, whenever he did something, like force feeding Elena his blood when she decided to take her chances on a flimsy potion that might not have even brought her back. So was it just Damon being 'his evil self' or was it about her safety? We analyze things on a deeper scale than just black and white and those of us here again have a pretty good idea of how the 'fandom' thinks as we're constantly involved in it. Not trying to be snarky, but it's hard to take an empty statement of, 'People will hate it!' without any proof whereas the threads we talk in have constant opinions of Damon fans all over social media sites, actual tweets to the executive producer of the show where she answers and addresses concerns that Damon and Delena fans had all season with where she was even heading with Damon this season. Back in season 2, the Jeremy neck snap happened, were the writers scared of 'resetting his character development' then? It was season 2 of a show still in progress. It's season 7 and Damon's character has went through amazing character development, randomly making up some BS to retcon it, yeah long time fans would hate that. As it makes no sense and I've grown tired of TVD's inconsistent writing. And that's just with Damon's character. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. You seem to continually bring up this point as if the complaint is about everyone treating Damon mean and we can't handle it. I don't need Caroline to make flirty eyes at Damon or for Stefan to playfully tackle Damon to the ground. It's not about people just treating him nice and good. It's just common sense to blame a character for actions they actually did. If Damon actually did the things they characters were blowing up at him about or it was actually his fault that things went to crap, I wouldn't care lol. But this has nothing to do with maintaining a badass/outsider vibe as I don't see Enzo getting this treatment. So We might have to agree to disagree on this point as I feel like I'm just repeating myself each post and that the actual examples I've given from the show are kind of just being glossed over, while I'm mainly fighting opinions without any canon evidence to back up claims and it's getting really tiresome arguing this. Yup, it's opinions and point of view for the most part. I would say some of us are more involved in the analysis of the show and some of us are more casual viewers and we will view the show differently from our perspectives. While we like to put motive to every action, some viewers just want to be entertained and I'm not saying that's you, Chriz. Only you could answer that, but I see two different mindsets emerging here. If you look at it from that perspective, the casual viewers aren't looking that deeply into the whys and hows of things. For us when an action makes no sense, it does not compute and takes us out of the 'suspension of disbelief' ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) as we wonder why the heck the writers did that and then it ruins our enjoyment of the show. It has to make sense, and some of this stuff just doesn't. When one week Stefan can say, "I can really see some changes in you Damon now that Elena is in your life," which unbelievably he did say something like that ONCE, but then the next week he's all, everything is Damon's fault and/or Damon will never change, Damon is bad and evil and will never be anything else or some random like Valerie who doesn't know squat about Damon decides to rip on him for no apparent reason, other than to make Stefan look better, it has no continuity and I think that's the big thing that bothers those of us that really want to see the story evolve and not just a bunch of vampires on screen being badasses. We want the story to make some sense and not be retconned for convenience of the writing/writers/producers because they are too lazy to think of another way to do what they want to do that week and the next week is a crap shoot again on how people will be treating Damon. It's just really bad storytelling right now and I used to love this show. It used to make sense...LOL One thing I think is fairly obvious is that Damon is the main character of the show. Everything seems to revolve around him now, the good, the bad and the ugly and actually that's a good thing because Stefan's character is way too weak to hold that position. Even Steroline is struggling to be THE couple now and I blame it on Stefan's weak character development. He is one dimensional in a lot of ways and never really changes and that's boring. Again that is just bad writing. They could have done so much more with Stefan if they weren't so worried about tarnishing his armor, but they chose not to, or they could have made him ultra good, but they didn't. He's a sarcastic wiseass who loves to make his brother feel like crap and that's no hero either. Yet they keep throwing this good vs bad brother dialogue around that just doesn't fit either one of them anymore and I think that's what's so frustrating, like enough already, neither of them is all good or all bad...period...get over it and move the story on from there...PLEASE. I don't want to hear Caroline say something nasty about Damon AGAIN for the thousandth time while he defends her ALL the freaking time nor do I want to hear her talk up Stefan like he's a saint when he's off screwing Valerie having pretty much forgotten Caroline was still supposed to be his girlfriend and getting away with it. I mean what WAS that? Then she just forgave him like it was nothing...really awful writing. I mean they aren't even trying anymore. And next season, well I don't want to give away the ending of season 7 since you haven't watched it yet Chriz, but suffice it to say that it could be a whole lot more of the same coming Damon's way and I think that's why it's on our minds. If the characters are not even invested in seeing Damon be OK then I'm not even sure what the point is, but I guess we'll have to wait and see who is and who doesn't give a flying rip. So far 99.9% of them don't. The .1 percent is Stefan on a good day and they don't come around all that often. He only ever cares when it benefits himself. LOL There's nothing worse than a false hero ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_hero ) and nothing better than an anti-hero to me, so there ya have it, Stefan and Damon in a nutshell and why I can't stand Stefan and love Damon. *I'm big on wiki links today aren't I? But these are perfect examples of what they are doing with their writing and I can only hope that in the end it is intentional and not actually just awful writing on JPs part. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 6, 2016 20:45:24 GMT -5
1. Another interesting thing about the day change that I forgot to point out, is how TVD had the same time slot for years only to change halfway through season 7. In the midst of the season I should emphasize, it'd be one thing if the time slot was set before the season even started, but it changed halfway through season 7. That seems very telling to me as far as the reception of season 7. It's the first season that it got moved to the 'death slot' as people dub it. You know seeing Elena's leave being acknowledged as one of the factors (since writing and plot lines for the other characters are also in effect of course) for the ratings being low... yep don't need convincing of that lol. I remember people parading Nina leaving and how 'whiny and annoying' Elena would no longer be part of the show and things would get interesting again cause everything wouldn't revolve around Elena and her leave totally wouldn't affect the ratings or anything, no one cares about that character. So it's nice seeing Elena get that acknowledgement now. I personally felt the show should have ended back in season 6 when they had knowledge of Nina's leave before the start of season 6. They could have done a proper ending when Nina was still in contract and could have brought all the characters back, like Tyler and Jeremy since they did anyways, to get a proper ending for season 6. Either way, whatever factors in combination have caused the drop in ratings (loss of a main character, new two slot, the writing, the plots, Damon's characterization etc.) the truth of the matter is that the ratings are ridiculously low no matter how you look at it. 2. Oh wait so you're aware of it too? Damon getting blamed for things he didn't do? Cool. I'm not crazy then lol. I don't know it sounds ridiculous on paper to me. Characters should take blame for actual actions they did, not some made up crap that the viewer never sees take place. If Damon actually did all the stuff it'd be resetting his character development and people would HATE. I'm confused about these 'people' you mention. A lot of us on this board are involved in various social media sites in addition to this one and we keep up with the fandom who are more than the casual viewers. We write and analyze meta regarding Damon's character all the time, whenever he did something, like force feeding Elena his blood when she decided to take her chances on a flimsy potion that might not have even brought her back. So was it just Damon being 'his evil self' or was it about her safety? We analyze things on a deeper scale than just black and white and those of us here again have a pretty good idea of how the 'fandom' thinks as we're constantly involved in it. Not trying to be snarky, but it's hard to take an empty statement of, 'People will hate it!' without any proof whereas the threads we talk in have constant opinions of Damon fans all over social media sites, actual tweets to the executive producer of the show where she answers and addresses concerns that Damon and Delena fans had all season with where she was even heading with Damon this season. Back in season 2, the Jeremy neck snap happened, were the writers scared of 'resetting his character development' then? It was season 2 of a show still in progress. It's season 7 and Damon's character has went through amazing character development, randomly making up some BS to retcon it, yeah long time fans would hate that. As it makes no sense and I've grown tired of TVD's inconsistent writing. And that's just with Damon's character. If he never did it and everyone treated him nicely and accepted him 100% and he only did good. People would hate. You seem to continually bring up this point as if the complaint is about everyone treating Damon mean and we can't handle it. I don't need Caroline to make flirty eyes at Damon or for Stefan to playfully tackle Damon to the ground. It's not about people just treating him nice and good. It's just common sense to blame a character for actions they actually did. If Damon actually did the things they characters were blowing up at him about or it was actually his fault that things went to crap, I wouldn't care lol. But this has nothing to do with maintaining a badass/outsider vibe as I don't see Enzo getting this treatment. So We might have to agree to disagree on this point as I feel like I'm just repeating myself each post and that the actual examples I've given from the show are kind of just being glossed over, while I'm mainly fighting opinions without any canon evidence to back up claims and it's getting really tiresome arguing this. Yup, it's opinions and point of view for the most part. I would say some of us are more involved in the analysis of the show and some of us are more casual viewers and we will view the show differently from our perspectives. While we like to put motive to every action, some viewers just want to be entertained and I'm not saying that's you, Chriz. Only you could answer that, but I see two different mindsets emerging here. If you look at it from that perspective, the casual viewers aren't looking that deeply into the whys and hows of things. For us when an action makes no sense, it does not compute and takes us out of the 'suspension of disbelief' ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) as we wonder why the heck the writers did that and then it ruins our enjoyment of the show. It has to make sense, and some of this stuff just doesn't. When one week Stefan can say, "I can really see some changes in you Damon now that Elena is in your life," which unbelievably he did say something like that ONCE, but then the next week he's all, everything is Damon's fault and/or Damon will never change, Damon is bad and evil and will never be anything else or some random like Valerie who doesn't know squat about Damon decides to rip on him for no apparent reason, other than to make Stefan look better, it has no continuity and I think that's the big thing that bothers those of us that really want to see the story evolve and not just a bunch of vampires on screen being badasses.
We want the story to make some sense and not be retconned for convenience of the writing/writers/producers because they are too lazy to think of another way to do what they want to do that week and the next week is a crap shoot again on how people will be treating Damon. It's just really bad storytelling right now and I used to love this show. It used to make sense...LOL
One thing I think is fairly obvious is that Damon is the main character of the show. Everything seems to revolve around him now, the good, the bad and the ugly and actually that's a good thing because Stefan's character is way too weak to hold that position. Even Steroline is struggling to be THE couple now and I blame it on Stefan's weak character development. He is one dimensional in a lot of ways and never really changes and that's boring. Again that is just bad writing. They could have done so much more with Stefan if they weren't so worried about tarnishing his armor, but they chose not to, or they could have made him ultra good, but they didn't. He's a sarcastic wiseass who loves to make his brother feel like crap and that's no hero either. Yet they keep throwing this good vs bad brother dialogue around that just doesn't fit either one of them anymore and I think that's what's so frustrating, like enough already, neither of them is all good or all bad...period...get over it and move the story on from there...PLEASE. I don't want to hear Caroline say something nasty about Damon AGAIN for the thousandth time while he defends her ALL the freaking time nor do I want to hear her talk up Stefan like he's a saint when he's off screwing Valerie having pretty much forgotten Caroline was still supposed to be his girlfriend and getting away with it. I mean what WAS that? Then she just forgave him like it was nothing...really awful writing. I mean they aren't even trying anymore. And next season, well I don't want to give away the ending of season 7 since you haven't watched it yet Chriz, but suffice it to say that it could be a whole lot more of the same coming Damon's way and I think that's why it's on our minds. If the characters are not even invested in seeing Damon be OK then I'm not even sure what the point is, but I guess we'll have to wait and see who is and who doesn't give a flying rip. So far 99.9% of them don't. The .1 percent is Stefan on a good day and they don't come around all that often. He only ever cares when it benefits himself. LOL There's nothing worse than a false hero ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_hero ) and nothing better than an anti-hero to me, so there ya have it, Stefan and Damon in a nutshell and why I can't stand Stefan and love Damon. *I'm big on wiki links today aren't I? But these are perfect examples of what they are doing with their writing and I can only hope that in the end it is intentional and not actually just awful writing on JPs part. Nodding away at the majority of this post especially the bolded parts, but I think the casual viewer is exactly who JP is writing for now most of whom cant remember what happened last season in any detail let alone S1. The story and Damon hate made sense within the show-verse in the past because most of the characters had a genuine axe to grind and they did not see what WE the audience got to see regarding Damon, however that has changed now but the writing hasn't. That is the problem. It's beyond incredible that most of them still have a S1 mindset when it comes to appraising Damon. For crying out loud, Klaus gets more props than Damon especially from Caroline after everything he did to her personally and all of her friends. Yes Damon is the main the character of the show, but I can't help feel that it is begrudgingly so. He was never meant to overshadow Stefan but he did hence why he needs to torn down to prop up Stefan. They tried making Stefan the snarky bad boy and it was good until they chickened out with the follow through which was a shame IMO. Flawed characters are far more interesting which is why Damon is much more appealing and always will be. Hypocritical, judgy, sanctimonious characters will never appeal IMO and that has always been the problem with Stefan, Bonnie and now Caroline. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 6, 2016 20:59:19 GMT -5
I will never forget in S3 when the gang had figured out that killing an original wiped out their entire sire line Caroline saying to Tyler that Damon would kill Klaus regardless of the fact that Tyler was the only one of the gang that they knew for definite had been sired by Klaus. Yes Damon was bent on killing Klaus but so was Stefan, I mean it was Stefan's entire mission in S3 more so than Damon. It was Stefans actions that put Caroline in danger from a werewolf bite when Klaus invoked the sire bond on Tyler......because of Stefan. Damon had been bitten by Tyler yet had done nothing TO Tyler after he had recovered in retaliation....considering how Damon treated Mason that is surprising. I have no doubt in my mind that Damon would have sacrificed Tyler had they had the means to kill Klaus, but so would Stefan ............Caroline....Crickets.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Jul 6, 2016 21:30:46 GMT -5
I will never forget in S3 when the gang had figured out that killing an original wiped out their entire sire line Caroline saying to Tyler that Damon would kill Klaus regardless of the fact that Tyler was the only one of the gang that they knew for definite had been sired by Klaus. Yes Damon was bent on killing Klaus but so was Stefan, I mean it was Stefan's entire mission in S3 more so than Damon. It was Stefans actions that put Caroline in danger from a werewolf bite when Klaus invoked the sire bond on Tyler......because of Stefan. Damon had been bitten by Tyler yet had done nothing TO Tyler after he had recovered in retaliation....considering how Damon treated Mason that is surprising. I have no doubt in my mind that Damon would have sacrificed Tyler had they had the means to kill Klaus, but so would Stefan ............Caroline....Crickets. We could probably go on for days with examples like these because they happened throughout the entire series. Really the only good thing about this show is Damon and the Delena dynamic because none of these other characters are worth a darn and I don't think I've ever felt that way about any other show before so good job, JP, making all these characters so unlikable with all their never ending Damon hate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 8:53:24 GMT -5
Yup, it's opinions and point of view for the most part. I would say some of us are more involved in the analysis of the show and some of us are more casual viewers and we will view the show differently from our perspectives. While we like to put motive to every action, some viewers just want to be entertained and I'm not saying that's you, Chriz. Only you could answer that, but I see two different mindsets emerging here. If you look at it from that perspective, the casual viewers aren't looking that deeply into the whys and hows of things. For us when an action makes no sense, it does not compute and takes us out of the 'suspension of disbelief' ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief) as we wonder why the heck the writers did that and then it ruins our enjoyment of the show. It has to make sense, and some of this stuff just doesn't. When one week Stefan can say, "I can really see some changes in you Damon now that Elena is in your life," which unbelievably he did say something like that ONCE, but then the next week he's all, everything is Damon's fault and/or Damon will never change, Damon is bad and evil and will never be anything else or some random like Valerie who doesn't know squat about Damon decides to rip on him for no apparent reason, other than to make Stefan look better, it has no continuity and I think that's the big thing that bothers those of us that really want to see the story evolve and not just a bunch of vampires on screen being badasses.
We want the story to make some sense and not be retconned for convenience of the writing/writers/producers because they are too lazy to think of another way to do what they want to do that week and the next week is a crap shoot again on how people will be treating Damon. It's just really bad storytelling right now and I used to love this show. It used to make sense...LOL
One thing I think is fairly obvious is that Damon is the main character of the show. Everything seems to revolve around him now, the good, the bad and the ugly and actually that's a good thing because Stefan's character is way too weak to hold that position. Even Steroline is struggling to be THE couple now and I blame it on Stefan's weak character development. He is one dimensional in a lot of ways and never really changes and that's boring. Again that is just bad writing. They could have done so much more with Stefan if they weren't so worried about tarnishing his armor, but they chose not to, or they could have made him ultra good, but they didn't. He's a sarcastic wiseass who loves to make his brother feel like crap and that's no hero either. Yet they keep throwing this good vs bad brother dialogue around that just doesn't fit either one of them anymore and I think that's what's so frustrating, like enough already, neither of them is all good or all bad...period...get over it and move the story on from there...PLEASE. I don't want to hear Caroline say something nasty about Damon AGAIN for the thousandth time while he defends her ALL the freaking time nor do I want to hear her talk up Stefan like he's a saint when he's off screwing Valerie having pretty much forgotten Caroline was still supposed to be his girlfriend and getting away with it. I mean what WAS that? Then she just forgave him like it was nothing...really awful writing. I mean they aren't even trying anymore. And next season, well I don't want to give away the ending of season 7 since you haven't watched it yet Chriz, but suffice it to say that it could be a whole lot more of the same coming Damon's way and I think that's why it's on our minds. If the characters are not even invested in seeing Damon be OK then I'm not even sure what the point is, but I guess we'll have to wait and see who is and who doesn't give a flying rip. So far 99.9% of them don't. The .1 percent is Stefan on a good day and they don't come around all that often. He only ever cares when it benefits himself. LOL There's nothing worse than a false hero ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_hero ) and nothing better than an anti-hero to me, so there ya have it, Stefan and Damon in a nutshell and why I can't stand Stefan and love Damon. *I'm big on wiki links today aren't I? But these are perfect examples of what they are doing with their writing and I can only hope that in the end it is intentional and not actually just awful writing on JPs part. Nodding away at the majority of this post especially the bolded parts, but I think the casual viewer is exactly who JP is writing for now most of whom cant remember what happened last season in any detail let alone S1. The story and Damon hate made sense within the show-verse in the past because most of the characters had a genuine axe to grind and they did not see what WE the audience got to see regarding Damon, however that has changed now but the writing hasn't. That is the problem. It's beyond incredible that most of them still have a S1 mindset when it comes to appraising Damon. For crying out loud, Klaus gets more props than Damon especially from Caroline after everything he did to her personally and all of her friends. Yes Damon is the main the character of the show, but I can't help feel that it is begrudgingly so. He was never meant to overshadow Stefan but he did hence why he needs to torn down to prop up Stefan. They tried making Stefan the snarky bad boy and it was good until they chickened out with the follow through which was a shame IMO. Flawed characters are far more interesting which is why Damon is much more appealing and always will be. Hypocritical, judgy, sanctimonious characters will never appeal IMO and that has always been the problem with Stefan, Bonnie and now Caroline. It really does feel like she's writing for a more casual audience who don't quite remember the finer details or just forgot in general to those of us who are more critical/analytic of the writing as we watch and keep track of progress/development/logical storytelling etc. Or at the very least JP feels that she can try and trick us by having a character say something happened a certain why when it actually didn't. Like when Stefan said that the reason that he and Elena broke up was because she slept with Damon, which was a complete lie even under the compulsion. And in instances like that, Damon and Elena (the characters who this usually ends up happening to) are made to remain silent and are made to feel guilty or take the blame as if it did happen that way. Another trick is to use the characters themselves, having Damon call himself things like manipulative or selfish or having Elena feel guilty of something that she would have only known if she had psychic powers (like Stefan under the water). Oh and let's not forget Bonnie actually telling Damon that sleeping with the chick wasn't that big of a deal, and her saying that Elena would have wanted him to sleep around cause he'd be a boring Damon if he didn't lol. This type of writing is infuriating and an insult to one's intelligence. We're not idiots, we know how the events actually happened. I sometimes wonder if JP herself forgot how some things went down or if this is just her way to save face with Stefan, changing things so that he always comes out as the victim with Damon and Elena being the ones who have done him wrong. Whether JP is writing for a more casual audience, the bad thing about the fandom (well I wouldn't necessary say bad lol) is that your more hardcore and invested fans are the ones who have social media accounts like twitter and the ones who are calling out your inconsistencies or plots that make no sense. Her q and a sessions on twitter are made to bring relief to her more invested fans that she actually knows what she's doing/going with the story, so she really can't play around too much with the canon/make inconsistencies since as active in twitter as JP seems to be, she knows she's going to get a crapton of mentions in her twitter feed chewing out her writing. And as mentioned, Damon is the most popular character in the show as much as JP may not have ever planned this to happen, she'd be living under quite the rock if by now she wasn't aware of that in addition to knowing that the majority of the fandom is sticking around in support of Damon's character. |
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Post by vampirelust on Jul 7, 2016 11:14:12 GMT -5
Nodding away at the majority of this post especially the bolded parts, but I think the casual viewer is exactly who JP is writing for now most of whom cant remember what happened last season in any detail let alone S1. The story and Damon hate made sense within the show-verse in the past because most of the characters had a genuine axe to grind and they did not see what WE the audience got to see regarding Damon, however that has changed now but the writing hasn't. That is the problem. It's beyond incredible that most of them still have a S1 mindset when it comes to appraising Damon. For crying out loud, Klaus gets more props than Damon especially from Caroline after everything he did to her personally and all of her friends. Yes Damon is the main the character of the show, but I can't help feel that it is begrudgingly so. He was never meant to overshadow Stefan but he did hence why he needs to torn down to prop up Stefan. They tried making Stefan the snarky bad boy and it was good until they chickened out with the follow through which was a shame IMO. Flawed characters are far more interesting which is why Damon is much more appealing and always will be. Hypocritical, judgy, sanctimonious characters will never appeal IMO and that has always been the problem with Stefan, Bonnie and now Caroline. It really does feel like she's writing for a more casual audience who don't quite remember the finer details or just forgot in general to those of us who are more critical/analytic of the writing as we watch and keep track of progress/development/logical storytelling etc. Or at the very least JP feels that she can try and trick us by having a character say something happened a certain why when it actually didn't. Like when Stefan said that the reason that he and Elena broke up was because she slept with Damon, which was a complete lie even under the compulsion. And in instances like that, Damon and Elena (the characters who this usually ends up happening to) are made to remain silent and are made to feel guilty or take the blame as if it did happen that way. Another trick is to use the characters themselves, having Damon call himself things like manipulative or selfish or having Elena feel guilty of something that she would have only known if she had psychic powers (like Stefan under the water). Oh and let's not forget Bonnie actually telling Damon that sleeping with the chick wasn't that big of a deal, and her saying that Elena would have wanted him to sleep around cause he'd be a boring Damon if he didn't lol. This type of writing is infuriating and an insult to one's intelligence. We're not idiots, we know how the events actually happened. I sometimes wonder if JP herself forgot how some things went down or if this is just her way to save face with Stefan, changing things so that he always comes out as the victim with Damon and Elena being the ones who have done him wrong. Whether JP is writing for a more casual audience, the bad thing about the fandom (well I wouldn't necessary say bad lol) is that your more hardcore and invested fans are the ones who have social media accounts like twitter and the ones who are calling out your inconsistencies or plots that make no sense. Her q and a sessions on twitter are made to bring relief to her more invested fans that she actually knows what she's doing/going with the story, so she really can't play around too much with the canon/make inconsistencies since as active in twitter as JP seems to be, she knows she's going to get a crapton of mentions in her twitter feed chewing out her writing. And as mentioned, Damon is the most popular character in the show as much as JP may not have ever planned this to happen, she'd be living under quite the rock if by now she wasn't aware of that in addition to knowing that the majority of the fandom is sticking around in support of Damon's character. Perhaps it goes back to something I think Chriz was trying to say. Damon is the main draw so he needs to be given a storyline that puts him front and centre to keep the fans watching but the problem is Stefan and they feel the need to keep him relevant and front and centre too. The problem the way I see it is A) no-one gives a rats ass about Stefan anymore and B) they are telling the wrong stories with Defan and Damon in particular. No true Damon fan wants to see him regress or seem inferior to Stefan which is how they write him...with no voice. There are many ways they could write Damon in an interesting way that allows him to build on his development while keeping his edge and sense of unpredictability but they don't although I did like his tenacity and drive towards the end of S7........That Damon was more recognizable to me however those moments fall flat within the context of the story IMO. What i'm trying say very badly is that I get that they know they can't write Damon as a saint...........he isn't one and it would not be IN character for him to be like that plus he would be boring to watch. In season 6 Damon was awesome, he had loads of character development with regards to Delena, Bonnie, Liz and even Alaric. He was good but did BAD things to his friends to get done what needed to be done. He was prepared to do risky things to rescue Bonnie, including risking his friendship with Alaric, he put a risky plan in motion to save Liz from turning into a cancer ridden vampire, he was prepared to force the twins to merge to save his friend........he was back to prioritising and making the hard choices collateral damage be damned. Damon did not want to kill anyone, but he WOULD if it meant saving someone he cares about. I loved that Damon, I understand THAT Damon and we got to see some of THAT Damon in S7 but somehow the writing in S7 was framing Damon as being WRONG. The subtext that is often present when Damon is doing bad things is missing and that subtext is what gave Damon layers and the audience an insight to his character. |
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Post by chrizakathemole on Jul 7, 2016 13:49:15 GMT -5
Oh I understand what people mean. I like to look in universe too. Like i said I look at it the other way though. I put myself in the character's shoes. If irl I knew someone was say a theif for 20 years. He stayed at my house and has been clean for a month. If my wallet goes missing i'd blame him. Hell I know someone who has a reputation as a "thug" who always hits people. We all say it about him and he's a friend. He's not actually hit some one for about 5 years but growing up he always did. Now that's stuck.
I don't care if damon has been good for like 2 years in the show. He did so much bad and had so many years of been an asshole that I understand it if the characters only see the negative yet as the history is too long. More so if it's stefan has he's been burnt there before so would have trust issues.
I was just saying I look at both. As in universe makes sense and behind the scenes reasons make sense so I can understand.
I will be honest I'm actually liking season 7. Season 5 sucked so much season 6 was better but had bad too. Season 7 has a lot going for it. 1. Julian is the first villian I've enjoyed since Klaus (not liked others) , 2. I understand some wont like this but no Elena. 3. Stefan/Caroline is a great couple and cool dynamic. 4.The flash forwards has an arrow like vibe. Is season 7 as good as 1 to 3? No that was great tv but I liked more than last 2 years. I feel most who hate season 7 (not accusing ones here) were the ones who said the second Elena left "next year will suck" so they are looking for more mistakes where the writing has been this way for like 4 years.
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However I am joking there as like I said there is too many factors. 
