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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 8:49:31 GMT -5
I just love Delena. I think their pairing is far better than Stelena. Damon, while multi-faceted, is the better choice for Elena. **Had to start some sort of controversy for this topic because you guys are all just too nice**  |
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Post by caine2010 on Dec 17, 2011 9:21:07 GMT -5
I prefer Delena as well. Stefan just creeps me out (and this coming from a guy lol).
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 9:29:41 GMT -5
He doesn't creep me out. He bores me. Although I'm starting to be ok with ripper Stefan...just starting to be ok and I think this is about as bad as he's going to get.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 10:25:19 GMT -5
I guess we need an apposing view for this to be a debate. I love Stefan and I think Stelena is beautiful couple. Their love comes from a pure place. Neither of them needs one more then the other. They respect each other and fight for not only each other, but for their family and friends as well. I love that Stefan has had beautiful friendship moments with both Bonnie and Caroline. I love that Elena became friends with Lexi and Damn so easily. They just fit perfectly together. Stefan-- I guess I do not understand why he would be creep anyone out, but my love for his character might blind me from anything creepy about him lol He is my favorite character on the show. I love the dimensions to his character. I like his sarcasm and attempt at humor. I love that he cares lets himself care about the awful things he has done. I love that he can admit wrong doing. I just love him! Any other SE fans want to help me out?  |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 11:46:20 GMT -5
I guess we need an apposing view for this to be a debate. I love Stefan and I think Stelena is beautiful couple. Their love comes from a pure place. Neither of them needs one more then the other. They respect each other and fight for not only each other, but for their family and friends as well. I love that Stefan has had beautiful friendship moments with both Bonnie and Caroline. I love that Elena became friends with Lexi and Damn so easily. They just fit perfectly together. Stefan-- I guess I do not understand why he would be creep anyone out, but my love for his character might blind me from anything creepy about him lol He is my favorite character on the show. I love the dimensions to his character. I like his sarcasm and attempt at humor. I love that he cares lets himself care about the awful things he has done. I love that he can admit wrong doing. I just love him! Any other SE fans want to help me out? *snicker* on the Damn... I find him wholly one dimensional. I have never been able to figure out why anyone sees him as dimensional at all. So enlighten me. How is he multi-dimensional? |
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Post by thebabe20 on Dec 17, 2011 12:02:13 GMT -5
Oh this is going to be LONG! You've been warned  I guess from the very beginning of the show I shipped DE, even before they were presented as an option. I never read the books so I was not aware that there was supposed to be a love triangle. All I remember is thinking that DE had amazing chemistry. I don't dislike SE (though I've grown tiresome) but I really don't find their love story compelling. Unfortunately they seem kind of generic to me. They have that "been there done that" feel about them. I feel like I watched this story a million times before. I wish they hadn't gotten together so quickly before we were even able to get a feel for who these two characters were. I feel like it's only now they're learning things about each other that they maybe should have learned before they exchanged "I love you's" and before they hopped into bed. Especially since these things are pretty much deal breakers. But I guess I understand the appeal of this relationship, it represents that sweet pure love. I just believe that most of the time there is more to love than that. I guess with DE aside from the amazing chemistry, comes the amazing story. I love DE's story because it's so unpredictable. You never really know where the writers are going to take it. They can either progress or regress in a matter of episodes and all of the regression are just challenges that they must overcome. I love that their biggest obstacles are each other and their differences. I think it's far easier to stick together when you have a lot of external obstacles, but when it comes to internal conflicts only the strongest can survive this. It's no secret that DE have had a rocky start, and they've been through hell and back to get to where they are now, but that's what's so amazing about their journey. To see these characters grow and overcome and still come out of it stronger and better for it. This is why I feel like they have a solid foundation for a relationship, they have a good friendship (not a perfect friendship by any means) but they have something that's key to every relationship trust. And it didn't come easy, they both had to fight and work to gain each others trust, and it's proven to be worthwhile in the end. Elena's trust in Damon is remarkable considering the way their relationship began. She used to question all of his motives,actions or plans with good reason. Now she has enough trust in him to sit back and believe him when he says he'll handle things. Elena last season would never sit idly and twiddle her thumbs while anyone let alone Damon carried out a plan to save her life, but she has so much faith and trust in Damon that for the first time, she didn't argue or put up a fight or demand things be done her way. She just put her complete trust and faith in him. I thought that was a true testament to how far their relationship has progressed from the way things started. Do I think that Damon and Elena's relationship is perfect or even remotely close to it? Of course not, and I don't think it will ever be, but I just love their journey. I'm a sucker for a good journey and these two have that in spades. I still expect them to disagree and have the most passionate arguments and fights (which I love btw, almost more than I love their romantic scenes. While most DE fans get annoyed at the thought of DE being at odds, I on the other hand get really excited ). I expect them to not see eye to eye on certain things and I want to see them hash it all out and eventually move past it. This is another thing I love about this relationship, the fact that they hash out everything! There are no secrets, there are no unresolved issues. If they have a problem they confront each other immediately, and they get their yelling and screaming done, and before you know it's all over and they've come to a compromise and they'll be fine. DE haven't fought much this season (sadly  ) but when they do it's always amazing to see how they say what's on their mind, no matter how ridiculous or unreasonable. That's how a relationship should be IMO, completely unguarded. I loved when they fought about Damon biting Caroline's dad, I think this scene was important for so many reasons. It highlighted Elena's conflict, as she just wants people to see Damon the way she sees him, but his behavior (which is in his nature) sometimes prevents that, so it makes her feelings for him seem all the more wrong. To see her actually struggling with her feelings for Damon because he's a vampire and actually behaves like one was really amazing. You would have never guessed that this is a girl who has already dated a vampire in the past, but of course Stefan was repressing/denying a lot of his nature so these kinds of conflicts never came up when they should have. I also find it fascinating that part of the reason Elena fell for Stefan is because she believed he was this 'good' vampire (and he does try his best so I have to give Stef credit) but she's falling for Damon despite the fact that he really isn't (and he doesn't try to be). But I think what's more remarkable is that even as they argued and fought when Damon decided to leave town for a while, he came rushing back as soon as he got word that she was in trouble. That's how love works IMO, it's never going to be all sweet and mushy all the time, you can disagree and fight, but as long as they're there for each other when they need, it's all that matters. And what I loved in that episode is how Elena makes it clear that she needs Damon, and Damon could have made her feel bad, but at that moment nothing mattered to him, other than comforting her and making it all better. I think one of the biggest things that set SE and DE apart IMO is that I can feel both characters growing in DE's relationship. Both finding themselves and both progressing to become better individuals. Unfortunately I felt both Stefan and Elena were stagnant as ever when they were together, neither one of them progressed anywhere. They were the same as they've always been since they got together in season 1. It took the writers tearing them apart in order for them to progress anywhere. For anyone who didn't know I'm a big fan of Elena, and I love who she is when she's with Damon. Especially this season. I love that they're taking her character in so many new directions and giving her some conflict and self awareness. I like that she's no longer content with being the weak link and she's doing something about it. She's training and learning to defend herself, and of course I love that it's Damon whose helping her out with all of this. I think Elena's learning that life isn't always black and white, and there are shades of gray and sometimes you gotta do what you have to do to protect yourself and what's dear to you. I know some had an issue with what she did to Rebekah, but I thought it was a huge milestone for Elena's character and I was cheering because she put on her bravest face and did something she didn't really like, but she did it for herself and for those she loves. If she's going to be involved with all this supernatural stuff, she's going to have to learn to play as dirty as they play and we'v all seen just what that looks like. All in all I think I've lost the purpose of this post with all my rambling.. I think the whole purpose of this post was to say that I feel DE have a better foundation because they've been through so much together, and SE never really got a chance to build anything solid because of the neck breaking pace of their relationship. Overall I think Damon and Elena compliment each other well and I love them, but I think there is still a lot more work to be done, a lot more growing and evolving needs to take place in order for this relationship to continue to blossom.    |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 12:13:34 GMT -5
I guess we need an apposing view for this to be a debate. I love Stefan and I think Stelena is beautiful couple. Their love comes from a pure place. Neither of them needs one more then the other. They respect each other and fight for not only each other, but for their family and friends as well. I love that Stefan has had beautiful friendship moments with both Bonnie and Caroline. I love that Elena became friends with Lexi and Damn so easily. They just fit perfectly together. Stefan-- I guess I do not understand why he would be creep anyone out, but my love for his character might blind me from anything creepy about him lol He is my favorite character on the show. I love the dimensions to his character. I like his sarcasm and attempt at humor. I love that he cares lets himself care about the awful things he has done. I love that he can admit wrong doing. I just love him! Any other SE fans want to help me out? *snicker* on the Damn... I find him wholly one dimensional. I have never been able to figure out why anyone sees him as dimensional at all. So enlighten me. How is he multi-dimensional? LOL that was purely unintetional... I have never been good at typing with my ipad.  I am sorry Damon, I meant Damon I will try... but I will fully admit that as much as I love fan forums I am not the best at conveying my opinions. He is this flawed hero. He has so many layers to his personality. At first Stefan was this caring/ hero/ protagonist type character, but by the end of the season you were given this new layer (his bloodlust). You saw this dimension of him being an addict/damaged/ and at times void of emotions. Now in season three we have this combination. This character that flips from one side to the next struggling to figure out after 160 years who he is. He is not the Stefan we first came to see in the beginning of S1 and he is not the Ripper we saw in the flashbacks. He is something in the middle. I mean I think Damon and Stefan are going through similar, yet opposite struggles. You see Stefan having to come out from under his this persona that he is "the good brother" and Damon having to come to terms that maybe he is not "the bad brother" ... I am going to in circles... sorry did that shed any light onto why I think of him as multi-dimensional? |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 12:25:24 GMT -5
No, that was a good explanation. I also see how Stefan and Damon seem to be going in opposite directions right now. Damon is trying to behave and be good and Stefan has been slowly slipping into the ripper. Maybe it ws because he set up this persona, this one dimensional character for us in the beginning that I see him that way. I don't know. They say first impressions are key.
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Post by thebabe20 on Dec 17, 2011 12:34:27 GMT -5
I agree with Teppy1 I don't think Stefan's one dimensional at all. I think he has as many layers as Damon does but I think largely the problem with Stefan's character stems from the actual writing. I fear when it comes to Stefan, a lot gets lost in translation. I feel the writers are sometimes too careful with the way they portray him, especially this season and because of that many still view him as one dimensional.
I never expected Stefan's character to be completely "bad" this season but I'm afraid the writers have intentionally written the "ripper" story-line in away that completely removes any responsibility from him, essentially making him either a victim or a hero, but never the cause of any problems. I feel with Damon every bad thing he's done has been his own doing, there were never any excuses made for Damon's character whenever he screwed up. Of course they let the audiences see things from his POV but it's ultimately their decision whether or not they want to excuse him or understand.
With Stefan I feel the writers try and force sympathy by making all these loopholes and excuses for his actions. I think the ripper story-line would have been a lot more effective without the compulsion and all the other things they created in order to keep Stefan the "good guy." He had a blood problem and a past as a ripper, they could have built on that and took his story in a really good direction. But it seems like they want to have it both ways with Stefan, they want him to remain the "good guy" all while giving him a "dark" story-line. These two things aren't exactly possible at least not simultaneously. IMO
I think at the end of the day the whole ripper background and blood problems are pointless if they're not going to be a factor in the present day, in his present struggle. This season Stefan didn't seem to struggle much with blood, or his past as a ripper, it was compulsion that did all the work, so all this stuff about him being a ripper in the past and having trouble controlling his blood urges were brought up for what exactly? They didn't seem to matter much at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 12:35:45 GMT -5
Oh this is going to be LONG! You've been warned  I guess from the very beginning of the show I shipped DE, even before they were presented as an option. I never read the books so I was not aware that there was supposed to be a love triangle. All I remember is thinking that DE had amazing chemistry. I don't dislike SE (though I've grown tiresome) but I really don't find their love story compelling. Unfortunately they seem kind of generic to me. They have that "been there done that" feel about them. I feel like I watched this story a million times before. I wish they hadn't gotten together so quickly before we were even able to get a feel for who these two characters were. I feel like it's only now they're learning things about each other that they maybe should have learned before they exchanged "I love you's" and before they hopped into bed. Especially since these things are pretty much deal breakers. But I guess I understand the appeal of this relationship, it represents that sweet pure love. I just believe that most of the time there is more to love than that. I guess with DE aside from the amazing chemistry, comes the amazing story. I love DE's story because it's so unpredictable. You never really know where the writers are going to take it. They can either progress or regress in a matter of episodes and all of the regression are just challenges that they must overcome. I love that their biggest obstacles are each other and their differences. I think it's far easier to stick together when you have a lot of external obstacles, but when it comes to internal conflicts only the strongest can survive this. It's no secret that DE have had a rocky start, and they've been through hell and back to get to where they are now, but that's what's so amazing about their journey. To see these characters grow and overcome and still come out of it stronger and better for it. This is why I feel like they have a solid foundation for a relationship, they have a good friendship (not a perfect friendship by any means) but they have something that's key to every relationship trust. And it didn't come easy, they both had to fight and work to gain each others trust, and it's proven to be worthwhile in the end. Elena's trust in Damon is remarkable considering the way their relationship began. She used to question all of his motives,actions or plans with good reason. Now she has enough trust in him to sit back and believe him when he says he'll handle things. Elena last season would never sit idly and twiddle her thumbs while anyone let alone Damon carried out a plan to save her life, but she has so much faith and trust in Damon that for the first time, she didn't argue or put up a fight or demand things be done her way. She just put her complete trust and faith in him. I thought that was a true testament to how far their relationship has progressed from the way things started. Do I think that Damon and Elena's relationship is perfect or even remotely close to it? Of course not, and I don't think it will ever be, but I just love their journey. I'm a sucker for a good journey and these two have that in spades. I still expect them to disagree and have the most passionate arguments and fights (which I love btw, almost more than I love their romantic scenes. While most DE fans get annoyed at the thought of DE being at odds, I on the other hand get really excited ). I expect them to not see eye to eye on certain things and I want to see them hash it all out and eventually move past it. This is another thing I love about this relationship, the fact that they hash out everything! There are no secrets, there are no unresolved issues. If they have a problem they confront each other immediately, and they get their yelling and screaming done, and before you know it's all over and they've come to a compromise and they'll be fine. DE haven't fought much this season (sadly ) but when they do it's always amazing to see how they say what's on their mind, no matter how ridiculous or unreasonable. That's how a relationship should be IMO, completely unguarded. I loved when they fought about Damon biting Caroline's dad, I think this scene was important for so many reasons. It highlighted Elena's conflict, as she just wants people to see Damon the way she sees him, but his behavior (which is in his nature) sometimes prevents that, so it makes her feelings for him seem all the more wrong. To see her actually struggling with her feelings for Damon because he's a vampire and actually behaves like one was really amazing. You would have never guessed that this is a girl who has already dated a vampire in the past, but of course Stefan was repressing/denying a lot of his nature so these kinds of conflicts never came up when they should have. I also find it fascinating that part of the reason Elena fell for Stefan is because she believed he was this 'good' vampire (and he does try his best so I have to give Stef credit) but she's falling for Damon despite the fact that he really isn't (and he doesn't try to be). But I think what's more remarkable is that even as they argued and fought when Damon decided to leave town for a while, he came rushing back as soon as he got word that she was in trouble. That's how love works IMO, it's never going to be all sweet and mushy all the time, you can disagree and fight, but as long as they're there for each other when they need, it's all that matters. And what I loved in that episode is how Elena makes it clear that she needs Damon, and Damon could have made her feel bad, but at that moment nothing mattered to him, other than comforting her and making it all better. I think one of the biggest things that set SE and DE apart IMO is that I can feel both characters growing in DE's relationship. Both finding themselves and both progressing to become better individuals. Unfortunately I felt both Stefan and Elena were stagnant as ever when they were together, neither one of them progressed anywhere. They were the same as they've always been since they got together in season 1. It took the writers tearing them apart in order for them to progress anywhere. For anyone who didn't know I'm a big fan of Elena, and I love who she is when she's with Damon. Especially this season. I love that they're taking her character in so many new directions and giving her some conflict and self awareness. I like that she's no longer content with being the weak link and she's doing something about it. She's training and learning to defend herself, and of course I love that it's Damon whose helping her out with all of this. I think Elena's learning that life isn't always black and white, and there are shades of gray and sometimes you gotta do what you have to do to protect yourself and what's dear to you. I know some had an issue with what she did to Rebekah, but I thought it was a huge milestone for Elena's character and I was cheering because she put on her bravest face and did something she didn't really like, but she did it for herself and for those she loves. If she's going to be involved with all this supernatural stuff, she's going to have to learn to play as dirty as they play and we'v all seen just what that looks like. All in all I think I've lost the purpose of this post with all my rambling.. I think the whole purpose of this post was to say that I feel DE have a better foundation because they've been through so much together, and SE never really got a chance to build anything solid because of the neck breaking pace of their relationship. Overall I think Damon and Elena compliment each other well and I love them, but I think there is still a lot more work to be done, a lot more growing and evolving needs to take place in order for this relationship to continue to blossom.    I thought this was really well said... I mean I do not agree with all of it, but it does make me see why you ship DE. I guess I ship SE for the exact opposite reason you ship DE. I believe we see the Damon and Elena story just as much as you see a love story like Elena and Stefan... think Beauty and the Beast vs Snow White. I like that Stefan and Elena's love did not need to build... that it did not go from stages of hate/tolerance/acceptance/friendship/romantic. I love that trust never had to be built, but was always there. They are not perfect... they have had conflict in their relationship, but because they are Twin Flames... it was something they could not deny or hide. They did not have to grow to love each other and accept each others flaws... that was a given. As much as Elena tried to fight that fact that she loved a vampire she says "I can't lose the way I feel about you." I am rambling now. Not trying to change your POV , I did like what you wrote... it does make me understand your ship better... I wish I was as better with words so that I could to the same with SE. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 12:40:17 GMT -5
I agree with Teppy1 I don't think Stefan's one dimensional at all. I think he has as many layers as Damon does but I think largely the problem with Stefan's character stems from the actual writing. I fear when it comes to Stefan, a lot gets lost in translation. I feel the writers are sometimes too careful with the way they portray him, especially this season and because of that many still view him as one dimensional. I never expected Stefan's character to be completely "bad" this season but I'm afraid the writers have intentionally written the "ripper" story-line in away that completely removes any responsibility from him, essentially making him either a victim or a hero, but never the cause of any problems. I feel with Damon every bad thing he's done has been his own doing, there were never any excuses made for Damon's character whenever he screwed up. Of course they let the audiences see things from his POV but it's ultimately their decision whether or not they want to excuse him or understand. With Stefan I feel the writers try and force sympathy by making all these loopholes and excuses for his actions. I think the ripper story-line would have been a lot more effective without the compulsion and all the other things they created in order to keep Stefan the "good guy." He had a blood problem and a past as a ripper, they could have built on that and took his story in a really good direction. But it seems like they want to have it both ways with Stefan, they want him to remain the "good guy" all while giving him a "dark" story-line. These two things aren't exactly possible at least not simultaneously. IMO I think at the end of the day the whole ripper background and blood problems are pointless if they're not going to be a factor in the present day, in his present struggle. This season Stefan didn't seem to struggle much with blood, or his past as a ripper, it was compulsion that did all the work, so all this stuff about him being a ripper in the past and having trouble controlling his blood urges were brought up for what exactly? They didn't seem to matter much at all. Yes! This is what I have trouble with. I can't stomach that the writers try to force feed us their opinion of what they think Stefan should be instead of letting us decide for ourselves. Back in 1864 he wasn't compelled and as far as we know at the time he destroyed a village he wasn't compelled so why do they feel the need to do this? I'm sort of the rebellious type and when someone says I should feel a certain way, I'm most likely to do the opposite. ;D |
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Post by thebabe20 on Dec 17, 2011 12:54:51 GMT -5
I agree with Teppy1 I don't think Stefan's one dimensional at all. I think he has as many layers as Damon does but I think largely the problem with Stefan's character stems from the actual writing. I fear when it comes to Stefan, a lot gets lost in translation. I feel the writers are sometimes too careful with the way they portray him, especially this season and because of that many still view him as one dimensional. I never expected Stefan's character to be completely "bad" this season but I'm afraid the writers have intentionally written the "ripper" story-line in away that completely removes any responsibility from him, essentially making him either a victim or a hero, but never the cause of any problems. I feel with Damon every bad thing he's done has been his own doing, there were never any excuses made for Damon's character whenever he screwed up. Of course they let the audiences see things from his POV but it's ultimately their decision whether or not they want to excuse him or understand. With Stefan I feel the writers try and force sympathy by making all these loopholes and excuses for his actions. I think the ripper story-line would have been a lot more effective without the compulsion and all the other things they created in order to keep Stefan the "good guy." He had a blood problem and a past as a ripper, they could have built on that and took his story in a really good direction. But it seems like they want to have it both ways with Stefan, they want him to remain the "good guy" all while giving him a "dark" story-line. These two things aren't exactly possible at least not simultaneously. IMO I think at the end of the day the whole ripper background and blood problems are pointless if they're not going to be a factor in the present day, in his present struggle. This season Stefan didn't seem to struggle much with blood, or his past as a ripper, it was compulsion that did all the work, so all this stuff about him being a ripper in the past and having trouble controlling his blood urges were brought up for what exactly? They didn't seem to matter much at all. Yes! This is what I have trouble with. I can't stomach that the writers try to force feed us their opinion of what they think Stefan should be instead of letting us decide for ourselves. Back in 1864 he wasn't compelled and as far as we know at the time he destroyed a village he wasn't compelled so why do they feel the need to do this? I'm sort of the rebellious type and when someone says I should feel a certain way, I'm most likely to do the opposite. ;D Me and you are alike, I hate to be told what to feel or what to like, so in a sense I'm just as rebellious. I think this actually works against them in a lot of ways because fans can easily pick up on that kind of thing. It just saddens me that they feel they have to do this with the character. I think I would like Stefan more if they didn't, I have a thing for really FLAWED characters (hence my love for Damon ) and I think if they just let Stefan be without forcing their views (from the BEGINNING) I'd probably like him more. I think Stefan's hot  , but unfortunately the ripper thing was not really enough to peak my interest. |
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 13:06:31 GMT -5
Yes! This is what I have trouble with. I can't stomach that the writers try to force feed us their opinion of what they think Stefan should be instead of letting us decide for ourselves. Back in 1864 he wasn't compelled and as far as we know at the time he destroyed a village he wasn't compelled so why do they feel the need to do this? I'm sort of the rebellious type and when someone says I should feel a certain way, I'm most likely to do the opposite. ;D Me and you are alike, I hate to be told what to feel or what to like, so in a sense I'm just as rebellious. I think this actually works against them in a lot of ways because fans can easily pick up on that kind of thing. It just saddens me that they feel they have to do this with the character. I think I would like Stefan more if they didn't, I have a thing for really FLAWED characters (hence my love for Damon ) and I think if they just let Stefan be without forcing their views (from the BEGINNING) I'd probably like him more. I think Stefan's hot  , but unfortunately the ripper thing was not really enough to peak my interest. This is it exactly for me as well. I probably would have liked him better without being spoonfed the Stefan dribble. It screams a lack of confidence in the character that they even felt they needed to do it to begin with. They should realize their most popular character is Damon, a no holds barred vamp. I'm glad they backed off on the 'be a better man' stuff and even went so far as to have him say, "I'm not Stefan." This was a direct result of fan displeasure in what they had decided to try to do with his character. |
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Post by pixiestyx on Dec 17, 2011 13:29:02 GMT -5
TheBabe's long post really sums up why I love DE over SE.
I just don't like SE's instant relationship/love. There was no build up it just happened.
Damon and Elena have had to fight for everything in their relationship. Plus Damon and Elena have, for the most part, been honest. You can't say that for Stefan and Elena. Stefan keeps things from Elena and only comes clean when he is forced to. This has ALWAYS bothered me with Stefan.
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Post by Doppelgänger on Dec 17, 2011 13:57:40 GMT -5
I didn't like the insta-relationship either. It was too easy. It was too pat. It was too boring, and honestly, I feel like Elena becomes this mega bitch when she's with Stefan, judging the people around her, well, Damon, I guess. It's like between the two of them their s*** didn't stink and that was obnoxious to me. Stefan is a ripper! Please! I don't like her with Stefan. I like her a whole lot more with Damon. |
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